1971-72 season scrapbook

[richinspain]

John Robson was a brilliant left back. Very sad how his career, and ultimately life, were tragically cut short.

[Guest]

This was our fifth League game against Forest since our return to the First Division in 1969. In our previous two visits to the City Ground, we were victorious by margins of 3-1 and 4-2. Surprisingly we had lost the two homes my margins of 0-2 and 1-2.. The City Ground held 49k and the BBG 40k in those days (except for the near 42k v Spurs in 1969 which but for the grace of God could easily have preceded the Hillsborough disaster by 20 years).

The matches were not all ticket as I remember. It was pay on the day and first come first served. The away attendance for both sets of supporters was huge. There was no segregation as we know it today but Derby fans steered clear of the Trent End and Forest treated the Pop Side with the same respect at the BBG. The rivalry was intense but did not contain the bitterness that largely set in after Clough and Taylor's unfortunate migration down the A52.  However, hooliganism was a real problem then and care had to be taken outside the grounds in particular. However, the police presence in the grounds and outside was huge in comparison to today. When need arose the police were much more forceful than now, which kept the hooligan problem in check. So for most, fears for our safety were not normally as high as you might expect.

The City Ground was very different in those days, when seating was generally for the minority and the terraces for the masses. It was very much the working man's game for the prawn sandwich brigade wouldn't have withstood the crowded terraces. The Main Stand was largely the same structure as it is now except it was fronted by a terraced paddock. The Trent End was entirely covered terracing. What is now the BC Stand was the old East Stand fronted by a large area of terracing. The Bridgford End,was then an uncovered Kop. While, it was not segregated, that was where the vast majority of Derby fans gathered.

The Derby teams of that era, were skilled , attacking sides which were pleasing on they eye. Forest were more robust  with a back four of Peter Hindley, Sammy Chapman, Liam O'Kane, Doug Fraser and sometimes, John Winfield. They were more journeymen players who would not have found a place in the Derby side but very physical. But no team apart from Leeds, usually chose to mess with Derby with Dave Mackay, Roy McFarland and, when required, Frank Wignall around. On our first visit to the City Ground in March 1970, the Derby fans were stunned to find that Kevin Hector had been left out in favour of Frank Wignall. The 'King' was not injured and his omission was unfathomable.

However, Wignall was popular with the Derby fans. He was a playfully arrogant and confident man and a robust but skilful centre forward who could put himself about. While at Forest in the mid-sixties, he had won three England caps. Sammy Chapman was initially a striker understudy to Frank but when his limitations were realised and as the team went into a relative decline, Sammy was moved back in to the defence. He was a bit of a loud mouth who fancied himself as a hard man but really he just had an inflated ego. All ended well as the Rams strolled to their 3-1 win. But what was noticeable was that Frank targeted Chapman who was bouncing off him in aerial duels from the start and Sammy wasn't enjoying it. In the second half at the open end, in front of the Derby fans, as he and Frank went up for the ball, Sammy fell to the floor and required lengthy treatment from the trainer but he could not continue. While this was going on, the Derby fans went into a chant of "Frankie, Frankie Wignall la-la-la-la-la." Frank was in his element,.He responded like a world heavyweight champion. He puffed out his chest, raised his arms above his head and wiggled the fingers of each hand in acknowledgement of the fans approval like the true showman he was.

After the game when he was quizzed about Hector's omission, Brian Clough merely said "It was just tactical and something I felt I had to do for just this one particular game. Of course Kevin wanted to play and I would have been disappointed if he had shown any other reaction. But he understands and he knew before the kick off that whatever happened he will be back in next week."

The story that later emerged about this tactical decision was that Terry Hennessey, who had only recently joined the Rams from Forest, was still living in Nottingham and socialising with some of his ex-team mates. He learned that Sammy was bragging that he was going to finish Kevin Hector's career. This got back to Cloughie and was the seed for his tactical plan. So it seems that Sammy Chapman received the  physical lesson that he clearly deserved.

On our next visit to the City Ground, in the following November when we won 4-2, Clough made another tactical change. McFarland  was injured, so Hennessey dropped back into the defence to partner Dave Mackay while Wignall came into a front four alongside Hector, O'Hare and Hinton as the team shape changed to 4-2-4 from the regular 4-3-3. Early in the game, Chapman went into a sliding tackle with Frank Wignall in the corner in front of A Block and the open end. Frank saw him coming and came to a halt with the ball at his feet. As Sammy lay on the ground in front of Frank who as he resumed his run, 'accidentlally' trod on Sammy's head as he continued, much to the delight of the travelling Derby fans. Frank scored that day and his goal celebration was exuberant.

Anyway back to the real business of the day and our 2-0 triumph on the way to the championship as Forest headed to Division Two. As we headed for the City Ground, Derby had suffered just one defeat in their first 14 while conversely, Forest had only managed one win. But the game was not as easy as the Rams faithful expected but the result was just fine. 

I have so far watched every East Midlands Derby game since I started watching Derby. Except for its importance towards eventually securing the title, memories of this game do not stand out as much as others throughout the years, including the two previous Forest away games I have mentioned above. As we mentioned last week, this was Steve Powell's full league debut. I recall the two goals and Boulton's penalty save and that in the first half, Forest were the team on top. After the penalty save, I recall that Ian Storey- Moore hit the bar with a cracking shot with Colin Bouton completely beaten and that's it. But now I have watched the highlights, that shot is not there. However, to confirm I am not confusing that shot for anther game, I have now found a reference to it in Gerald Mortimer's book 'Champions Again.'

I see from the team sheet that dear old Sammy Chapman played in this game too. I do not recall him. Maybe he had learned his lesson in the previous two seasons.

 

[Reggie Greenwood]

9 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

This was our fifth League game against Forest since our return to the First Division in 1969. In our previous two visits to the City Ground, we were victorious by margins of 3-1 and 4-2. Surprisingly we had lost the two homes my margins of 0-2 and 1-2.. The City Ground held 49k and the BBG 40k in those days (except for the near 42k v Spurs in 1969 which but for the grace of God could easily have preceded the Hillsborough disaster by 20 years).

The matches were not all ticket as I remember. It was pay on the day and first come first served. The away attendance for both sets of supporters was huge. There was no segregation as we know it today but Derby fans steered clear of the Trent End and Forest treated the Pop Side with the same respect at the BBG. The rivalry was intense but did not contain the bitterness that largely set in after Clough and Taylor's unfortunate migration down the A52.  However, hooliganism was a real problem then and care had to be taken outside the grounds in particular. However, the police presence in the grounds and outside was huge in comparison to today. When need arose the police were much more forceful than now, which kept the hooligan problem in check. So for most, fears for our safety were not normally as high as you might expect.

The City Ground was very different in those days, when seating was generally for the minority and the terraces for the masses. It was very much the working man's game for the prawn sandwich brigade wouldn't have withstood the crowded terraces. The Main Stand was largely the same structure as it is now except it was fronted by a terraced paddock. The Trent End was entirely covered terracing. What is now the BC Stand was the old East Stand fronted by a large area of terracing. The Bridgford End,was then an uncovered Kop. While, it was not segregated, that was where the vast majority of Derby fans gathered.

The Derby teams of that era, were skilled , attacking sides which were pleasing on they eye. Forest were more robust  with a back four of Peter Hindley, Sammy Chapman, Liam O'Kane, Doug Fraser and sometimes, John Winfield. They were more journeymen players who would not have found a place in the Derby side but very physical. But no team apart from Leeds, usually chose to mess with Derby with Dave Mackay, Roy McFarland and, when required, Frank Wignall around. On our first visit to the City Ground in March 1970, the Derby fans were stunned to find that Kevin Hector had been left out in favour of Frank Wignall. The 'King' was not injured and his omission was unfathomable.

However, Wignall was popular with the Derby fans. He was a playfully arrogant and confident man and a robust but skilful centre forward who could put himself about. While at Forest in the mid-sixties, he had won three England caps. Sammy Chapman was initially a striker understudy to Frank but when his limitations were realised and as the team went into a relative decline, Sammy was moved back in to the defence. He was a bit of a loud mouth who fancied himself as a hard man but really he just had an inflated ego. All ended well as the Rams strolled to their 3-1 win. But what was noticeable was that Frank targeted Chapman who was bouncing off him in aerial duels from the start and Sammy wasn't enjoying it. In the second half at the open end, in front of the Derby fans, as he and Frank went up for the ball, Sammy fell to the floor and required lengthy treatment from the trainer but he could not continue. While this was going on, the Derby fans went into a chant of "Frankie, Frankie Wignall la-la-la-la-la." Frank was in his element,.He responded like a world heavyweight champion. He puffed out his chest, raised his arms above his head and wiggled the fingers of each hand in acknowledgement of the fans approval like the true showman he was.

After the game when he was quizzed about Hector's omission, Brian Clough merely said "It was just tactical and something I felt I had to do for just this one particular game. Of course Kevin wanted to play and I would have been disappointed if he had shown any other reaction. But he understands and he knew before the kick off that whatever happened he will be back in next week."

The story that later emerged about this tactical decision was that Terry Hennessey, who had only recently joined the Rams from Forest, was still living in Nottingham and socialising with some of his ex-team mates. He learned that Sammy was bragging that he was going to finish Kevin Hector's career. This got back to Cloughie and was the seed for his tactical plan. So it seems that Sammy Chapman received the  physical lesson that he clearly deserved.

On our next visit to the City Ground, in the following November when we won 4-2, Clough made another tactical change. McFarland  was injured, so Hennessey dropped back into the defence to partner Dave Mackay while Wignall came into a front four alongside Hector, O'Hare and Hinton as the team shape changed to 4-2-4 from the regular 4-3-3. Early in the game, Chapman went into a sliding tackle with Frank Wignall in the corner in front of A Block and the open end. Frank saw him coming and came to a halt with the ball at his feet. As Sammy lay on the ground in front of Frank who as he resumed his run, 'accidentlally' trod on Sammy's head as he continued, much to the delight of the travelling Derby fans. Frank scored that day and his goal celebration was exuberant.

Anyway back to the real business of the day and our 2-0 triumph on the way to the championship as Forest headed to Division Two. As we headed for the City Ground, Derby had suffered just one defeat in their first 14 while conversely, Forest had only managed one win. But the game was not as easy as the Rams faithful expected but the result was just fine. 

I have so far watched every East Midlands Derby game since I started watching Derby. Except for its importance towards eventually securing the title, memories of this game do not stand out as much as others throughout the years, including the two previous Forest away games I have mentioned above. As we mentioned last week, this was Steve Powell's full league debut. I recall the two goals and Boulton's penalty save and that in the first half, Forest were the team on top. After the penalty save, I recall that Ian Storey- Moore hit the bar with a cracking shot with Colin Bouton completely beaten and that's it. But now I have watched the highlights, that shot is not there. However, to confirm I am not confusing that shot for anther game, I have now found a reference to it in Gerald Mortimer's book 'Champions Again.'

I see from the team sheet that dear old Sammy Chapman played in this game too. I do not recall him. Maybe he had learned his lesson in the previous two seasons.

 

That 3-1 win was my first Rams away game ?

[Crewton]

Remember this song from those days?

 

Sha-la-la-la Hennessey

Who the ****ing hell is he?

The best wing-half you'll ever see

Forest 1 and Derby 3

Ian Moore has got VD

 

Nicked from Man City IIRC

[LeedsCityRam]

5 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

The matches were not all ticket as I remember. It was pay on the day and first come first served. The away attendance for both sets of supporters was huge. There was no segregation as we know it today but Derby fans steered clear of the Trent End and Forest treated the Pop Side with the same respect at the BBG. The rivalry was intense but did not contain the bitterness that largely set in after Clough and Taylor's unfortunate migration down the A52.  However, hooliganism was a real problem then and care had to be taken outside the grounds in particular. However, the police presence in the grounds and outside was huge in comparison to today. When need arose the police were much more forceful than now, which kept the hooligan problem in check. So for most, fears for our safety were not normally as high as you might expect.

@Brailsford Ram  @Gerry Daly not sure how they managed to work this out as it was pay on the day but the write up in The Ram said there were 17k Derby fans at the City Ground that day, out of a total gate of 37k

[Guest]

1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said:

 not sure how they managed to work this out as it was pay on the day but the write up in The Ram said there were 17k Derby fans at the City Ground that day, out of a total gate of 37k

In those days the estimate of away attendances were largely just that - estimates, albeit reasonably accurate. We were not entitled to any allocation of seats except, directors and their guests. The away fans had to find their own place on the terraces. Derbyshire Constabulary would inform the home team police force of the expected number of Derby fans travelling away through their own intelligence, gathered with the co-operation from the club from data about train and coach tickets purchased. Visual observation of the make -up the crowd was a determining factor in this, as was a comparison with the difference between the actual attendance and the normal or average home attendance.

In that era, Derby had huge followings at certain away games, that are impossible today. In the 2nd Division Championship season, we took 12,000 to Bury, 15,000 to Oxford, and 16,000 to Aston Villa. We got there early and most were in the grounds by 1.30pm to ensure we all got in. Where it was a lock out, it was the home fans who suffered because we were in before them. For example, at Oxford the gate was just short of their record attendance of about 17,500 at the Manor Ground. The gates were shut at 1.30pm because we were all in. The only Oxford fans in attendance were a handful who had arrived early and their season ticket holders who were few in number. The Oxford fans who were on the terraces, were herded gently into a corner by the Derby fans, without any violence. By 1.45 pm most of the Derby fans were singing a crescendo of "We have taken over" and we had, very peacefully. Some of this had been inspired by Brian Clough who early in the week had told the fans "Come to Oxford and we will destroy them at the kick-in." So we did and it was a carnival day out. Clough and the players came out onto the pitch well before the players had changed into their kit, to applaud us, which was unheard of. It is impossible today because of the segregation and ticketing requirements.

At Bury the gate was about 16,000 with 75% from Derby. You could walk uninterrupted around Gigg Lane. So, at half-time, we swapped ends with the Bury fans so we were at the end in both halves that Derby were attacking.

When we clinched the Division Two championship, it was all ticket for away fans. Millwall allocated us the whole of the main stand so that segregation could be imposed because of the notorious hooligan reputation of Millwall. We took the full allocation of about 5,000 which was unheard of at Millwall where many feared to go for very real but also very sad reasons. Big cup games were different. Away fans were guaranteed a percentage of seats and terrace tickets. Where it was likely that these guarantees could only be fulfilled by ticket allocation, those games were made all-ticket.

I hope this explains.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Guest

[Boycie]

A very nice older lady customer got her photo album out yesterday and it was full of interesting pictures.

Mostly Forest as her brother was a friend of Brian’s and apparently she had lots of items from Brian that he gave him.  I told her she was probably sitting on a fortune, but this picture took my eye.

Id imagine some may remember this flower arrangement in Darley Park. You can see a little platform they built in the foreground so you could view the display a little higher up.

Id have been 1 year old.

[LeedsCityRam]

Matchday 16 – Saturday 6th November 1971 & Crystal Palace were the visitors to the BBG

Palace had been promoted alongside Derby in 1969 but unlike Derby, had largely struggled since coming up & came into this match 2nd bottom. Derby duly dispatched them 3-0 in front of 30,380 – goals coming from Bell (own goal), Frank Wignall & Kevin Hector. Match report below;

 

Pre-match edition of The Ram focused on fans fighting on the pitch at the previous home game against Arsenal & threatened to use cameras to identify & blacklist the ‘hooligan kids’

 

Derby’s third consecutive win consolidated them in 2nd place. Elsewhere, the Manchester Derby at Maine Road finished 3-3 meaning Man Utd’s advantage over Derby at the top was cut to a single point;

[angieram]

With the "what" Colin Todd? "Matery"? No spell-checker in those days.

I always liked Man City. ?

[LeedsCityRam]

13 minutes ago, angieram said:

With the "what" Colin Todd? "Matery"? No spell-checker in those days.

I always liked Man City. ?

I've no idea how that got through! I suspect they meant 'masterful' but fell on the typewriter...

The Manchester Derby was a bit of a classic by all accounts;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_KgV5f55Qg

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by LeedsCityRam

[Guest]

There was a mild sort of rivalry in this era between Derby and Palace, purely based on the fact that the two teams were promoted together from Division Two in 1968-69. Derby, under their new skipper, the legendary Dave Mackay, had disappointingly found themselves bottom of the league after the first five games with just three points from three draws and two defeats. Then they signed Willie Carlin from Sheffield United, who Peter Taylor immediately and declared was "the final piece in the jigsaw." He added "Just get your money on us for the second division championship." So many of us wished we had followed his advice as the Rams never looked back.

The importance of Carlin's arrival was illustrated by the fact the Rams only lost three more games that season. In two of them, Carlin was missing through injury - the only two games he missed - and in the other, at Charlton he was not fully fit, only making himself available with the aid of a cortisone injection. Derby went top of the league on November 30, 1968 with a 2-1 win at Selhurst Park and led the league for the remainder of the season. Their only home defeat was, with Carlin absent, 0-1 to Palace in the return fixture in March.. From thereon they raced to the title with 10 wins and a draw on the run-in. Palace pulled away into second place in what for a long time had been a tight run race with Charlton, Middlesbrough and Cardiff.

However, on arrival in Division One, the Rams had dominated in their encounters with Palace.with three wins and a draw in the league and a draw and a replay win in the League Cup in 1969. The first replay at the BBG was abandoned with five minutes to go as the thickest pea soup fog I have ever seen swiftly enveloped the ground, with the Rams leading 3-0. From my seat in the Normanton Upper, all I could see of the pitch was the outline of the Normanton End goal. We did not even know that the players had left the pitch until the abandonment was announced on the tannoy. Justice was done when we won the next game 3-0. So, Palace were really 'whipping boys' for us as we came into this game with only one defeat in our opening 15 games. As can be seen, we extended that run with another 3-0 margin. It was a stroll in the park with all three goals in the first half at the Normanton End. Frank Wignall's goal was to be his last in a Derby shirt.

Just a mention about the Palace team. There were three big stars of the game who were coming to the ends of their careers. Bobby Tambling held the claim to Chelsea's all-time highest scorer until Frank Lampard surpassed him in 2013 and played three times for England. Wiilie Wallace and John Hughes were members of Celtic's Lisbon Lions who became the first British club to win the European Cup in 1967 when they beat Inter Milan. Hughes was the older brother of Billy Hughes, who later joined Derby and died recently while still living in Kirk Langley. John played one game with Billy when he joined Sunderland but his career ended on his debut when he sustained a serious injury.

The Derby team this day fielded only two players who had not been at the club when the Second Division was won in 1969. Terry Hennessey and Colin Todd. In contrast, I only recognise John Jackson and David Payne from the Palace side that was promoted behind the Rams. Derby had established themselves from the first day in the top flight while Palace survived three relegations before returning to Division Two in 1972-73. The next season they dropped straight through to Division Three.

[LeedsCityRam]

3 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

There was a mild sort of rivalry in this era between Derby and Palace, purely based on the fact that the two teams were promoted together from Division Two in 1968-69. Derby, under their new skipper, the legendary Dave Mackay, had disappointingly found themselves bottom of the league after the first five games with just three points from three draws and two defeats. Then they signed Willie Carlin from Sheffield United, who Peter Taylor immediately and declared was "the final piece in the jigsaw." He added "Just get your money on us for the second division championship." So many of us wished we had followed his advice as the Rams never looked back.

The importance of Carlin's arrival was illustrated by the fact the Rams only lost three more games that season. In two of them, Carlin was missing through injury - the only two games he missed - and in the other, at Charlton he was not fully fit, only making himself available with the aid of a cortisone injection. Derby went top of the league on November 30, 1968 with a 2-1 win at Selhurst Park and led the league for the remainder of the season. Their only home defeat was, with Carlin absent, 0-1 to Palace in the return fixture in March.. From thereon they raced to the title with 10 wins and a draw on the run-in. Palace pulled away into second place in what for a long time had been a tight run race with Charlton, Middlesbrough and Cardiff.

However, on arrival in Division One, the Rams had dominated in their encounters with Palace.with three wins and a draw in the league and a draw and a replay win in the League Cup in 1969. The first replay at the BBG was abandoned with five minutes to go as the thickest pea soup fog I have ever seen swiftly enveloped the ground, with the Rams leading 3-0. From my seat in the Normanton Upper, all I could see of the pitch was the outline of the Normanton End goal. We did not even know that the players had left the pitch until the abandonment was announced on the tannoy. Justice was done when we won the next game 3-0. So, Palace were really 'whipping boys' for us as we came into this game with only one defeat in our opening 15 games. As can be seen, we extended that run with another 3-0 margin. It was a stroll in the park with all three goals in the first half at the Normanton End. Frank Wignall's goal was to be his last in a Derby shirt.

Just a mention about the Palace team. There were three big stars of the game who were coming to the ends of their careers. Bobby Tambling held the claim to Chelsea's all-time highest scorer until Frank Lampard surpassed him in 2013 and played three times for England. Wiilie Wallace and John Hughes were members of Celtic's Lisbon Lions who became the first British club to win the European Cup in 1967 when they beat Inter Milan. Hughes was the older brother of Billy Hughes, who later joined Derby and died recently while still living in Kirk Langley. John played one game with Billy when he joined Sunderland but his career ended on his debut when he sustained a serious injury.

The Derby team this day fielded only two players who had not been at the club when the Second Division was won in 1969. Terry Hennessey and Colin Todd. In contrast, I only recognise John Jackson and David Payne from the Palace side that was promoted behind the Rams. Derby had established themselves from the first day in the top flight while Palace survived three relegations before returning to Division Two in 1972-73. The next season they dropped straight through to Division Three.

Brilliant insight as ever ?

Re Frank Wignall, what was the story with him leaving Derby in 1971? He scored 5 goals in the 10 games he played this season, then left to join Mansfield who got relegated into Division 4 by the end of 71/72. Seems bizarre.

Found an interview he did earlier this year for Notts Post (link below)...didnt realise he was an England player just before 1966 & broke his leg. Sadly he's suffering with dementia now, like many of his contemporaries from that era;

https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport/football/football-news/broken-legs-pay-rises-managing-5260209

Edited November 6, 2021 by LeedsCityRam

[Guest]

1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Re Frank Wignall, what was the story with him leaving Derby in 1971?

After last week I had already pre-empted the question you have raised and I have, I think, most of the answer. But I have a connection to his family and I just want to see if there is anything more to add. I think the answer is probably straightforward with no underlying issues. I read the NEP article last week. I hope I might be able to post my full response tomorrow.

 

 

 

[Guest]

The Palace game was Frank's final appearance for Derby and a few days later he joined Mansfield Town for £8k.He had been at Derby two years and nine months. He joined Derby from Wolves in February 1969, essentially to cover for O'Hare and Hector as the team entered the run-in to the Second Division title. Peter Taylor said, tongue in cheek at the time, that they had signed Frank as insurance and hoped he would never have to start for Derby. But what a very productive and popular addition to the squad he became. In all he made 45 appearances and scored 15 goals for Derby. Four of the goals came in four full and two substitute appearances in the run-in to promotion. Five of them came in the 10 full and one substitute appearances he had made that season, prior to his sudden departure. So really you can say that Frank went out at the top when his Rams career ended.

I recall at the time that, like me, many supporters were surprised and disappointed when he was freed. But really we shouldn't have been for nothing was ever surprising with Clough and Taylor. From early on at Derby, Taylor had said that they would always look to improve the side and if they found a better centre half than Roy McFarland they would sign him. Of course, they never found that man.

At the time, the young Barry Butliin and Roger Davies were leading the attack in the talented reserve side which was on its way to the championship of the Central League, which comprised the reserve sides of the leading clubs from the Midlands and the North of England.

Davies had arrived just a few weeks earlier for what was at the time, a record fee of £14k for any non-league player from Worcester City. He was snatched from under the noses of several top sides. Taylor was rightly furious when Sam Longson questioned the size of the fee for a non-league player. What a bargain Roger soon proved to be. 

Neither Butlin nor Davies made a first team league appearance in this championship season. Only 16 players did. Of those,  Wignall played 10 + 1 sub, Jim Walker 3 + 3. Steve Powell 2 + 1 and Tony Bailey played just a single full game. Injuries and suspensions were much less than they are today but even so, it would not surprise me if this was the smallest squad ever to have become champions of England, especially since the Second World War.

So I fully understand the question as to why did Frank go? But there was no-fall out, although Frank would have been disappointed of course. But I remember later in the season, he sat just in front of me as a spectator at Maine Road. Someone asked him why he had come. He laughed and said he was there to get behind the team because he wanted a championship medal and of course he received one for he had played the minimum 10 games.

In his autobiography, Roy McFarland said this; "Arsenal, Nottingham Forest and Crystal Palace were beaten in successive matches as the attack began to function again with Wignall on the mark against Palace to become our joint top scorer with five goals.

"Days later he was shipped out to Mansfield for £8,000. Wignall fell from a lofty perch near the summit of  the First Division into a Third Division relegation dogfight overnight.

"It was similar to Willie Carlin's fate 12 months earlier and you couldn't help but feel sympathy towards another valued team=mate. The management looked at this way - Frank was 32 years old, there was a bit of cash on the table for him, young Davies was in the bag and it was time to move on."

So there you have it.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Guest

[Guest]

But just as an aside because I remember what's coming in the weeks ahead, I still can't stop thinking that in one or two of the games that followed Frank Wignall might well have given us a physical dimension that was sorely missing and we might have won the League more comfortably with him around. But we all know the eventual outcome and as they say 'All's well that ends well' and it did end well.

I spoke on the phone with his son-in-law this afternoon. He said that although it's sad that he is suffering from dementia, Frank still remembers a lot, particularly of the more distant past and he's very proud of what he achieved at Derby. The championship medal was his only major club honour and he still treasures it. He also said he has lost none of his old arrogance and still loves watching football on TV, which he does most days. His son-in-law was just too young to have seen him play but Frank often reminds him "I was bloody good you know." Those of us who saw him and his team-mates at Derby, will all raise our glasses to that. Cheers Frankie Wignall, la la la la la la la.

[uttoxram75]

5 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

But just as an aside because I remember what's coming in the weeks ahead, I still can't stop thinking that in one or two of the games that followed Frank Wignall might well have given us a physical dimension that was sorely missing and we might have won the League more comfortably with him around. But we all know the eventual outcome and as they say 'All's well that ends well' and it did end well.

I spoke on the phone with his son-in-law this afternoon. He said that although it's sad that he is suffering from dementia, Frank still remembers a lot, particularly of the more distant past and he's very proud of what he achieved at Derby. The championship medal was his only major club honour and he still treasures it. He also said he has lost none of his old arrogance and still loves watching football on TV, which he does most days. His son-in-law was just too young to have seen him play but Frank often reminds him "I was bloody good you know." Those of us who saw him and his team-mates at Derby, will all raise our glasses to that. Cheers Frankie Wignall, la la la la la la la.

Great memories and inside knowledge there Brailsford. I was only a kid, 11 years old during the 71/72 season so find it really interesting to find out bits about the squad and players even after all these years. ?

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Great memories and inside knowledge there Brailsford. I was only a kid, 11 years old during the 71/72 season so find it really interesting to find out bits about the squad and players even after all these years. ?

Thanks. Just glad to be able to pass it on. I've always thought that my generation of Derby supporters was lucky. I'd  just turned nine when I first started watching the home games in September 1961. Harry Storer was the manager. He had brought us back from Division 3 North in 1957. He'd played for Derby and also Derbyshire County Cricket Club. He'd managed Peter Taylor, who was a goalkeeper at Coventry and also Reg Matthews who Taylor replaced at Coventry when Reg moved to Chelsea in the First Division. Reg won five caps for England while playing in Division 3 South for Coventry. When he went to Chelsea, he stayed there until Peter Bonnetti replaced him in 1961, whereupon Storer signed Reg for Derby. Reg kept us in Division Two for five seasons and then Clough & Taylor came in 1967. Reg played in goal that first season and then they bought Les Green in to replace him when he retired. Storer had tried to sign Clough for Derby when he was a Middlesbrough reserve but the board was too tight to pay the relatively low fee of £2,500. Taylor, who had by then moved to Middlesbrough and befriended Clough, had recommended Clough to Storer. The history books tell you of the Clough goalscoring legend when he broke into the Middlesbrough team. Taylor and Clough worshipped Harry Storer as a manager when they arrived at Derby in 1967. They regularly visited his bedside until he died later that year. They had developed Harry's principles and that was the foundation of their management style. Isn't it a small world?

Harry retired at the end of the 1961-62 season to be replaced by Tim Ward. He was a Derby County legend as a player and an England international who missed playing in the 1946 Cup Final because he was still serving in Europe with the British army. It must be remembered that Tim brought Ronnie Webster, Alan Durban, Peter Daniel and Colin Boulton into the first team at Derby.  Ward was an absolute gentleman but the board never backed him financially until in 1966 he persuaded them to pay a club record fee to sign Kevin Hector from Bradford Park Avenue. The arrival of the King was of great significance in the start of the halcyon years but it was Clough and Taylor who were able to bring it to fruition when the board sacked Tim Ward, quite unjustly, at the end of that season. His dismissal was unjust at the time but we are all thankful for what happened next. I've rambled on a bit here and gone off topic but my point is that my generation experienced the relative mediocrity that came before Clough and Taylor. That experience meant that we were able to savour and appreciate the halcyon years that came next. We were so lucky.

I started going to away games in 1965 and I have continued home and away ever since. I am 69 now but at the moment a seemingly healthy and young 69 I hope. I have had a good life and career and I am lucky to be able to enjoy a good retirement and family life. But Derby County FC has been an essential part of my life. As I enter the evening of my life, I sincerely hope that the younger generations of Derby supporters might come to experience what we did 50 years ago, or at least something approaching it. It might seem an unrealistic hope but just remember what happened to Leicester City not so long ago.

Come On You Rams.

And to cap it all my generation saw the England 1966 World Cup win. Now that may just be round the corner again for all to enjoy. I hope so.

[Crewton]

Great stuff as usual BR. 

Anyone interested in learning more about Tim Ward should hunt down a copy of the biography written by his son Andrew, entitled "Armed With A Football" (Breedon Press I think). Tim fought in Normandy after D-Day and it's a fascinating and moving story. 

[IslandExile]

9 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

Thanks. Just glad to be able to pass it on. I've always thought that my generation of Derby supporters was lucky. I'd  just turned nine when I first started watching the home games in September 1961. Harry Storer was the manager. He had brought us back from Division 3 North in 1957. He'd played for Derby and also Derbyshire County Cricket Club. He'd managed Peter Taylor, who was a goalkeeper at Coventry and also Reg Matthews who Taylor replaced at Coventry when Reg moved to Chelsea in the First Division. Reg won five caps for England while playing in Division 3 South for Coventry. When he went to Chelsea, he stayed there until Peter Bonnetti replaced him in 1961, whereupon Storer signed Reg for Derby. Reg kept us in Division Two for five seasons and then Clough & Taylor came in 1967. Reg played in goal that first season and then they bought Les Green in to replace him when he retired. Storer had tried to sign Clough for Derby when he was a Middlesbrough reserve but the board was too tight to pay the relatively low fee of £2,500. Taylor, who had by then moved to Middlesbrough and befriended Clough, had recommended Clough to Storer. The history books tell you of the Clough goalscoring legend when he broke into the Middlesbrough team. Taylor and Clough worshipped Harry Storer as a manager when they arrived at Derby in 1967. They regularly visited his bedside until he died later that year. They had developed Harry's principles and that was the foundation of their management style. Isn't it a small world?

Harry retired at the end of the 1961-62 season to be replaced by Tim Ward. He was a Derby County legend as a player and an England international who missed playing in the 1946 Cup Final because he was still serving in Europe with the British army. It must be remembered that Tim brought Ronnie Webster, Alan Durban, Peter Daniel and Colin Boulton into the first team at Derby.  Ward was an absolute gentleman but the board never backed him financially until in 1966 he persuaded them to pay a club record fee to sign Kevin Hector from Bradford Park Avenue. The arrival of the King was of great significance in the start of the halcyon years but it was Clough and Taylor who were able to bring it to fruition when the board sacked Tim Ward, quite unjustly, at the end of that season. His dismissal was unjust at the time but we are all thankful for what happened next. I've rambled on a bit here and gone off topic but my point is that my generation experienced the relative mediocrity that came before Clough and Taylor. That experience meant that we were able to savour and appreciate the halcyon years that came next. We were so lucky.

I started going to away games in 1965 and I have continued home and away ever since. I am 69 now but at the moment a seemingly healthy and young 69 I hope. I have had a good life and career and I am lucky to be able to enjoy a good retirement and family life. But Derby County FC has been an essential part of my life. As I enter the evening of my life, I sincerely hope that the younger generations of Derby supporters might come to experience what we did 50 years ago, or at least something approaching it. It might seem an unrealistic hope but just remember what happened to Leicester City not so long ago.

Come On You Rams.

And to cap it all my generation saw the England 1966 World Cup win. Now that may just be round the corner again for all to enjoy. I hope so.

Another wonderful post @Brailsford Ram. Thank you so very much for these fantastic memories.

I am the same age as @uttoxram75 and, started supporting around Chrimbo 1968, only going to occasional matches during the next few years, and didn't go regularly to games until 1975-76. I agree it would have been better to experience the barren years before the successful ones. For me, the peak good times came first, and generally it's been downhill ever since, with the few highspots under Cox and Smith.

Anyhow, please keep posting. Your contributions are a fascinating read. A really great perspective from someone who was there.

Thank you so much.

[loweman2]

16 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

I spoke on the phone with his son-in-law this afternoon. He said that although it's sad that he is suffering from dementia, Frank still remembers a lot, particularly of the more distant past and he's very proud of what he achieved at Derby. The championship medal was his only major club honour and he still treasures it. He also said he has lost none of his old arrogance and still loves watching football on TV, which he does most days. His son-in-law was just too young to have seen him play but Frank often reminds him "I was bloody good you know." Those of us who saw him and his team-mates at Derby, will all raise our glasses to that. Cheers Frankie Wignall, la la la la la la la.

Frank was one of the players i went to see at his home when we did the "Legends" tour a couple of years ago, he was very chatty and remembered everything from his days at Derby, i dont want to hijack the thread with a long tale but one funny story i remember was that he said that on one of his first games they had travelled to London to play a game and on the morning of the match Cloughie took them for a walk alongside the Thames, Frank said that he managed to catch up with Brian at the front and wanted to make a good impression on him so engaged in conversation with him, after a couple of minutes Cloughie turned round to him and gave him the classic "Young man" "i have signed you to score goals for Derby County, i have not signed you to be my friend or to engage in idle chit chat now kindly leave me alone" 

he also told me how he had broken his leg twice, his previous manager had rushed him back after the first break and it was never right, he got into the England team when he broke it again, the player who replaced him was Geoff Hurst, he just looked at me and said "what could have been ".

Any how a lovely man who like the rest of those lads made no money from football and just has his medal to show for it, here it is in all its glory !!

one of the 15 that put DCFC on the world footballing map !