v Huddersfield (H) Match Thread

[Asanovic70]

 

Going for us to put in a cup tie style performance despite quite possibly the worst close season in personal memory (excusing 1984 & prior to that, started following us 1985 game by game. Even 1991 offered vague hope upon relegation after we extricated ourselves from Maxwell's ownership. The closest perhaps is 2005 after Burley left to be replaced by Phil Brown, a summer of uncertainty).  

Bet365, the last time I checked, has us at 7/2 to win (4.5-1), 22% chance of winning with the draw the most likely outcome. 

ITMA

Geoff Eltringham is the referee, who also presided over our home win last season against the same opponents. He was also the ref during Cocu's opening day win at Huddersfield (2019). Our record at home when he is officiating: 5W 2D 3L (world soccer net). Goals are at premium when he is the middle, 9/10 finishing under 2.5 goals. He has presided over one goalless draw. One goal may settle things either way & posters who tipped 1-0 may, hopefully, be proven right. I went for 2-1 as we've conceded in 6/7 home games & Clarke has left.

A win may prove a false dawn, however. Last season, Sheff W began with a surprise win at Cardiff & Rotherham won at Wycombe.

A truer indication of things may come against Salford in the EFL Cup & away at Peterborough and when games come in quick succession.

We may buck the odds on Saturday with the players inspired by playing in front of a home crowd and they may be the ones who get us over the line or back into the game. The Sporting Life/InfoGol twitter page (seasonal previews)  stated that Huddersfield were one of the worst performing sides last season in terms of data. 

Quote

They ranked third worst in both attack (1.03 xGF per game) and defence (1.48 xGA per game). Their transfer business is hardly inspiring, so it is hard to see where the improvements will come from.

It seems bizarre to say an opening day game is already a six-pointer, but it is, in the context that both sides are expected to be fighting relegation at this moment of time.

[Betty Swollocks]

So as things stand the team could look something like this on saturday??

                      Marshall

Ebolsele    Cashin    Forsyth    Byrne

           Bird                    Shinnie

Jozwiak        Sibley        Lawrence

                       CKR

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Betty Swollocks said:

So as things stand the team could look something like this on saturday??

                      Marshall

Ebolsele    Cashin    Forsyth    Byrne

           Bird                    Shinnie

Jozwiak        Sibley        Lawrence

                       CKR

Not the worst. Wouldn't want a season of it! What's the bench like? ?

[Ramos]

5 minutes ago, Betty Swollocks said:

So as things stand the team could look something like this on saturday??

                      Marshall

Ebolsele    Cashin    Forsyth    Byrne

           Bird                    Shinnie

Jozwiak        Sibley        Lawrence

                       CKR

I’d actually put Thompson in alongside shinnie and see how he does. 

[Anag Ram]

Wayne now knows what it's like to run a Sunday league team, not knowing who's available til the very last minute and wondering whether we need to call it off. 

At least he doesn't have to sort out the ref! 

[Sparkle]

10 minutes ago, Betty Swollocks said:

So as things stand the team could look something like this on saturday??

                      Marshall

Ebolsele    Cashin    Forsyth    Byrne

           Bird                    Shinnie

Jozwiak        Sibley        Lawrence

                       CKR

Shinnie used to be a left back so I would stick him in there 

[TimRam]

1 minute ago, Anag Ram said:

Wayne now knows what it's like to run a Sunday league team, not knowing who's available til the very last minute and wondering whether we need to call it off. 

At least he doesn't have to sort out the ref! 

or call round for players only to discover they are still in bed.

[brady1993]

10 minutes ago, Betty Swollocks said:

So as things stand the team could look something like this on saturday??

                      Marshall

Ebolsele    Cashin    Forsyth    Byrne

           Bird                    Shinnie

Jozwiak        Sibley        Lawrence

                       CKR

Roos will likely play over Marshall, and there is a decent chance Williams plays at left back.

Honestly though as a first 11 outside of question marks at the back I don't think it looks too bad. The problem is obviously there is nothing beyond that.

[tinman]

10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Not the worst. Wouldn't want a season of it! What's the bench like? ?

exactly, as a one off it's bearable and I'd still fancy our chances against much of the league. What it can't be is ongoing.

If we were mid-season on a half decent run and we had to play that team due to injuries you'd see it as ok, not ideal but that's what we've got to cope with. 

[Leeds Ram]

3 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Roos will likely play over Marshall, and there is a decent chance Williams plays at left back.

Honestly though as a first 11 outside of question marks at the back I don't think it looks too bad. The problem is obviously there is nothing beyond that.

It's exactly the same midfield and front 4 that got us an astonishingly low number of goals last season though. For me the problem is in the defence and forward areas. As well as the midfield two Bird and Shinnie play awfully together.  

[Betty Swollocks]

14 minutes ago, Ramos said:

I’d actually put Thompson in alongside shinnie and see how he does. 

If you put any of the kids in like Thompson or Williams it takes up another 2Senior" spot and means that we cant make as many signings!

[cosmic]

2 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

It's exactly the same midfield and front 4 that got us an astonishingly low number of goals last season though. For me the problem is in the defence and forward areas. As well as the midfield two Bird and Shinnie play awfully together.  

So everywhere, then ?

[Leeds Ram]

Just now, cosmic said:

So everywhere, then ?

pretty much ?

[Lander]

12 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

Wayne now knows what it's like to run a Sunday league team, not knowing who's available til the very last minute and wondering whether we need to call it off. 

At least he doesn't have to sort out the ref! 

He's scrambling in the group chat '@'ing' people as we speak, some people leaving him on read, others are making poor excuses.

[brady1993]

1 minute ago, Leeds Ram said:

It's exactly the same midfield and front 4 that got us an astonishingly low number of goals last season though. For me the problem is in the defence and forward areas. As well as the midfield two Bird and Shinnie play awfully together.  

It's not really though given that Sibley barely played last year.  I get your overall point but I'm still of the view that the issue largely lay in coaching and not necessarily personal specifically.

On the Bird and Shinnie midfield I'd argue it can work and has worked previously (i.e. the Blackburn game pre-pandemic) the issue is you can't just look as the midfield as the pair. For example I 100% that a midfield axis of Bird, Shinnie and Knight likely doesn't work but with the right player playing at 10, the right coaching and arguably the right wide attacking players I think it can work. The issue you have to deal with though is you need other players to come and look for the ball because Bird can't do it all by himself and it's just not Shinnie's game. The primary issue you'd often see with them as a two is it was far too easy to stifle because Bird was the only player looking to get on the ball and get us going. 

[simmoram1995]

I think Huddersfield is going to be a real test, it will either go one of two ways , A we get hammered or B scrape a win as the boys use the ongoing issues to drive them on. I sincerely hope it’s the latter 

[Leeds Ram]

Just now, brady1993 said:

It's not really though given that Sibley barely played last year.  I get your overall point but I'm still of the view that the issue largely lay in coaching and not necessarily personal specifically.

On the Bird and Shinnie midfield I'd argue it can work and has worked previously (i.e. the Blackburn game pre-pandemic) the issue is you can't just look as the midfield as the pair. For example I 100% that a midfield axis of Bird, Shinnie and Knight likely doesn't work but with the right player playing at 10, the right coaching and arguably the right wide attacking players I think it can work. The issue you have to deal with though is you need other players to come and look for the ball because Bird can't do it all by himself and it's just not Shinnie's game. The primary issue you'd often see with them as a two is it was far too easy to stifle because Bird was the only player looking to get on the ball and get us going. 

In terms of the personnel it actually is, well in fact it's weaker than last season given the departures of waghorn, gregory etc. I actually don't think even in terms of the personnel it's particularly strong even if they are well coached especially up top. 

The Blackburn game where we lost to a side that could barely pick up a point at the time and cut through our midfield like a knife through butter? The forward line worked better but the defence had absolutely 0 protection that day. For me Bird and Shinnie's styles do not compliment each other and hinders the team both going forward and at the back. There's a lack of movement from both Bird and Shinnie that limits the attacking options creating a static front 4 that aren't particularly great anyway and neither offer adequate protection defensively creating a worst of all worlds scenario. 

[brady1993]

3 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

In terms of the personnel it actually is, well in fact it's weaker than last season given the departures of waghorn, gregory etc. I actually don't think even in terms of the personnel it's particularly strong even if they are well coached especially up top. 

Yeah I get that they were all there last season but I'd still contend that Sibley was underutilised and that could be a difference maker. That's fair enough if that's your view about the player's qualities, but the one thing that struck me about last season is that none of the attacking players were performing at a level they've demonstrated.

7 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

The Blackburn game where we lost to a side that could barely pick up a point at the time and cut through our midfield like a knife through butter?

I'm talking about the Blackburn game that was Sibley's debut, where we won 3-0. I don't think it was Bird and Shinnie in midfield for the game you are talking about it, I think one of the slots was a severly unfit Rooney.

8 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

For me Bird and Shinnie's styles do not compliment each other and hinders the team both going forward and at the back. There's a lack of movement from both Bird and Shinnie that limits the attacking options creating a static front 4 that aren't particularly great anyway and neither offer adequate protection defensively creating a worst of all worlds scenario. 

A lot of the above aren't really criticisms of them as players and more about formation and deployed tactics. The rigid 4231 we deployed last year requires the two midfielders to effectively just sit in position. Compare Shinnie's movement in that system to when he's been used in a more typical 433 or Bird when he has played at 10. Personally I'd scrap the 4231 altogether because I think it's unecessarily restrictive and likely isn't the best for getting the most out of personal but I think if you balance the two of them with the right attacking 3 I do think it might work.

[Leeds Ram]

3 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Yeah I get that they were all there last season but I'd still contend that Sibley was underutilised and that could be a difference maker. That's fair enough if that's your view about the player's qualities, but the one thing that struck me about last season is that none of the attacking players were performing at a level they've demonstrated.

I'm talking about the Blackburn game that was Sibley's debut, where we won 3-0. I don't think it was Bird and Shinnie in midfield for the game you are talking about it, I think one of the slots was a severly unfit Rooney.

A lot of the above aren't really criticisms of them as players and more about formation and deployed tactics. The rigid 4231 we deployed last year requires the two midfielders to effectively just sit in position. Compare Shinnie's movement in that system to when he's been used in a more typical 433 or Bird when he has played at 10. Personally I'd scrap the 4231 altogether because I think it's unecessarily restrictive and likely isn't the best for getting the most out of personal but I think if you balance the two of them with the right attacking 3 I do think it might work.

I don't think Sibley will be that big a difference maker tbh. He's a solid player and could be good at this level but i can't see him being good enough to catapult our poor attack into a dangerous threat. Lawrence has traditionally been an average championship winger, CKR has never scored many goals for any one club and Jo is untested outside of Poland domestically. 

Oh right, I'm not sure how you can say a Bird-Shinnie partnership can work if one wasn't playing and it was what 2 years ago? Am just a little confused about that ? 

Sorry if I wasn't clear in my post, I'm not saying a 2 man midfield can't work but the individual styles and attributes of Shinnie and Bird means they make a poor combination in that position. I do think tactically it was an issue last year too but the partnership of those two exacerbated this problem. I'd agree with you about the 4-3-3 except we lack a runner and a proper defensive midfielder really. 

[Sparkle]

Team for Saturday as of 14-30hrs Thursday before

                    Roos or Marshall (we have a choice)

Byrne            Cashin      Forsyth.      Shinnie 

                             Bird 

                Watson.         Sibley 

Jozwiak.           Richards.       Lawrence 

possibly five full internationals there ?

we should save money and not put more than 2 under 16s on the bench in fact only put 2 on the bench with the goalkeeper who could play up front,Stretton might be passed fit for the bench