The concept of a fan owned club

[bimmerman]

2 minutes ago, bimmerman said:

I am part of Exeter city trust which part owns Exeter. Think it's about 30 quid a year now I pay,get subsidised tickets and priority tickets for big games on a tier system based on what you put into the club. Get voting rights on some things as well,but still have a board in place that gets voted on now and again. Not same scale but still a decent experience if I'm honest

I've shared from their trust page. I only pay a lowly amount but solely as it keeps local people on a job ,I also used their training ground facilities for a man Vs fat football thing(pre accident) and I can currently afford to. If I couldn't,I'd just stop as can cancel anytime

[bimmerman]

2 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

On that basis 20,000 rams fans paying £100 a year would net £2 million and provide an excellent forum for club developments (and a marketing database!) 

We could pay off any future captain who gets injured when Peaced. 

 

 

Genuinely if it's cheap enough or give tiered options people will put money in. For me 30 quid a year is totally disposable,so set and forget about it but keeps the club going

[G STAR RAM]

3 hours ago, cannable said:

Accounts for 12/13 and I believe The Athletic stated the current wage bill recently 

I think The Athletic may be out with their estimate.

I think they have just seen that MM is having to write a cheque for £x million a month and assumed that is our wages costs, totally ignoring the fact that we have not been paying our PAYE bill.

[Anag Ram]

14 minutes ago, bimmerman said:

Genuinely if it's cheap enough or give tiered options people will put money in. For me 30 quid a year is totally disposable,so set and forget about it but keeps the club going

Imagine if we raised £2 million then agreed upon a transfer target! 

We could then boo him and ourselves at the same time ?

[RoyMac5]

19 minutes ago, bimmerman said:

I've shared from their trust page. I only pay a lowly amount but solely as it keeps local people on a job ,I also used their training ground facilities for a man Vs fat football thing(pre accident) and I can currently afford to. If I couldn't,I'd just stop as can cancel anytime

So could 'other' be £50 or £60m? I do like the idea 'our' Club. #COYR

Edited May 17, 2021 by RoyMac5

[bimmerman]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

So could 'other' be £50 or £60m? I do like the idea 'our' Club. #COYR

Yeah on the 'other' you get the option to donate whatever you want but it's still the same benefits as the top tier regardless of how much you put in. If buying from a businessman that's actively looking to sell,you'd need a LOT of people to get on board and it wouldn't be a quick process,even if he's willing to take a lower bid it's a bit pie in the sky. The city trust came about because they went into administration and were on the brink of collapse in the national League. It's a big ask to get Mel to only sell 49% and fans purchase the other 51%,and take on the debt involved. I'd still chuck my 50 quid a year in though

[AutoWindscreens]

6 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Just an update on this; the FSF Network Manager for Community owned clubs has offered to call me over the next few days to talk through various scenarios around community/fan ownership. I've made some points in the email below but is there anything else people would like answers to? Am happy to raise in the call & report back on here. If so, either reply to this or DM me ?

My email to FSF btw;

Hi Andy,

Saw your contact details on the FSF site & wondered if you could provide some advice

I'm a Derby fan & as you're probably aware, the club is in a difficult financial position currently with the incumbent owner looking to sell asap. Unfortunately this seems to have attracted a number of chancers & charlatans with 2 potential takeovers falling through already due to prospective buyers being unable to provide proof of funds by way of actual bank transfer.

As few of us on the main forum have been discussing the prospect of a fan owned club or at least a club majority owned by the fans & whilst doing some reading on the AFC Wimbledon model, the DonsTrust gave a lot of credit to Supporters Direct for advice given back in 2002 that enabled them to start from scratch & employ the successful model that has brought them back into the League.

I was therefore interested to learn what the framework of a viable fan led buyout could be, particularly given the size of Derby. Unlike AFC Wimbledon, we'd be looking to take on a existing large club with pre-Covid annual turnover expectations of circa £30m & unknown debts although rumoured to be around the £60m mark. I suspect any condition of sale would be paying off a proportion of those debts so the first challenge would be raising the cash from supporters to do this (possibly in the form of a bond rather than seeking external lending)

Any advice you could give would be really appreciated. I'm guessing you may have fielded a few of these from larger clubs from time to time - it'd be nice to actually land one & prove fan ownership can work at the top end of the pyramid!

Nice one.

I'd like to know what different ownership models are working in clubs - do they have details - here and abroad?

And how did the clubs adopt those models - how have fans ended up with the structure. Have they gone through various discussions or is it more a case of putting one proposal out there and asking people to sign up to it?

And do they have any examples of how fans have gone about raising money?

??

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, AutoWindscreens said:

Nice one.

I'd like to know what different ownership models are working in clubs - do they have details - here and abroad?

And how did the clubs adopt those models - how have fans ended up with the structure. Have they gone through various discussions or is it more a case of putting one proposal out there and asking people to sign up to it?

And do they have any examples of how fans have gone about raising money?

??

Yeah. Mega mega kudos to @LeedsCityRam for taking this further and checking out the realities. #COYR

[kevinhectoring]

19 minutes ago, AutoWindscreens said:

Nice one.

I'd like to know what different ownership models are working in clubs - do they have details - here and abroad?

And how did the clubs adopt those models - how have fans ended up with the structure. Have they gone through various discussions or is it more a case of putting one proposal out there and asking people to sign up to it?

And do they have any examples of how fans have gone about raising money?

??

MM is not one who dances to the tune of others. So if we want this to happen, it’s the Main Man who needs to make a proposal 

[atherstoneram]

Transfer windows would be interesting

[europia]

9 hours ago, Spanish said:

no one can know how Fester would has reacted to starting the season 12 points down, it may have crushed them

The main reason I brought up the Leicester City scenario, by going into administration, I assume they walked away from their unserviceable debt. A game changer for LCFC, looking at the way things have turned out. 

Mr Morris's financial strategy seems to have saddled DCFC with far too much debt. Hence, it's difficult to find a buyer. When the big spending was taking place, I guess most supporters were under the impression that the chairman (and the clubs financial officials) deemed the levels of debt to be manageable. It now transpires that the debt is in no way manageable, and risks taken to work around FFP are going to result in punishment. No surprise then, that Mr Morris having pumped millions into the club, wants out ASAP. Ultimately, if the club is to stay solvent and be sold as a going concern, the chairman is going to have too make it more attractive, potential buyers (if there are any). In short, Mr Morris is probably going to have to write off (some if not all) what the club owes him. Even that might not be enough. Indeed, the vultures will be circling.....

[Brammie Steve]

It's not so much a financial question as trying to seek some form of consensus of opinion on strategy, direction, sims and objectives of a fan owned club.

Put me and any other fan in a board room and within minutes (ok hours maybe) we would be disagreeing on basic, fundamental issues.

Practice is much more problematic than principle!

[Simmo’s left foot]

Key thing for any fan appointed directors is to ensure the club is setting budgets that’s within its means. Simple as that.

[Spanish]

8 hours ago, europia said:

The main reason I brought up the Leicester City scenario, by going into administration, I assume they walked away from their unserviceable debt. A game changer for LCFC, looking at the way things have turned out. 

Mr Morris's financial strategy seems to have saddled DCFC with far too much debt. Hence, it's difficult to find a buyer. When the big spending was taking place, I guess most supporters were under the impression that the chairman (and the clubs financial officials) deemed the levels of debt to be manageable. It now transpires that the debt is in no way manageable, and risks taken to work around FFP are going to result in punishment. No surprise then, that Mr Morris having pumped millions into the club, wants out ASAP. Ultimately, if the club is to stay solvent and be sold as a going concern, the chairman is going to have too make it more attractive, potential buyers (if there are any). In short, Mr Morris is probably going to have to write off (some if not all) what the club owes him. Even that might not be enough. Indeed, the vultures will be circling.....

Would any write be deemed to be a CVA?

[angieram]

7 hours ago, Simmo’s left foot said:

Key thing for any fan appointed directors is to ensure the club is setting budgets that’s within its means. Simple as that.

I am sure that recent budgets have attempted to address this but experiencing over a season with zero income has scuppered us, as well as many others, in respect of budgets and cash flow.

I don't think the situation would be anywhere near as bad as it is without covid.

[Beetle]

Not sure how many people need to be interested for this to happen but I am. I don't think a fan shareholder, or whatever we would be called, should be entitled to any discounts or anything as that would cost the club money. It should be a vote on a representative board member and a vote on the budget. Having a say in the direction of the club would be enough for me.

[Tamworthram]

7 hours ago, Beetle said:

Not sure how many people need to be interested for this to happen but I am. I don't think a fan shareholder, or whatever we would be called, should be entitled to any discounts or anything as that would cost the club money. It should be a vote on a representative board member and a vote on the budget. Having a say in the direction of the club would be enough for me.

Generally agree but I don’t think you could have fans/member having a vote on budgets. For a start off, whilst many of us are rightly critical of the financial situation those in charge have allowed the club to find itself in, most of us are far less less qualified and possibly even more emotionally engaged. You only have to look at some of the suggestions in the transfer threads over the years to realise we don’t really have a clue.

[Rev]

7 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Generally agree but I don’t think you could have fans/member having a vote on budgets. For a start off, whilst many of us are rightly critical of the financial situation those in charge have allowed the club to find itself in, most of us are far less less qualified and possibly even more emotionally engaged. You only have to look at some of the suggestions in the transfer threads over the years to realise we don’t really have a clue.

By the time you'd framed a question on such a vote, the decision would be so vague it wouldn't be worth voting.

The only sort of annual votes you could hold would be for things which aid engagement, but are cost neutral.

Like which community charity to support next year, for instance.

 

[Beetle]

3 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

Generally agree but I don’t think you could have fans/member having a vote on budgets. For a start off, whilst many of us are rightly critical of the financial situation those in charge have allowed the club to find itself in, most of us are far less less qualified and possibly even more emotionally engaged. You only have to look at some of the suggestions in the transfer threads over the years to realise we don’t really have a clue.

We should have absolutely no say in transfers, none. I meant we should have a say on the general budget i.e. do we continually operate at the maximum or overspend one year and underspend others. Do we agree to pay more into the club for a year in order to increase budget etc.. We certainly could not allow the club to go into administration. How do we stop that if we have no say on budget?

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, Beetle said:

We should have absolutely no say in transfers, none. I meant we should have a say on the general budget i.e. do we continually operate at the maximum or overspend one year and underspend others. Do we agree to pay more into the club for a year in order to increase budget etc.. We certainly could not allow the club to go into administration. How do we stop that if we have no say on budget?

Surely fans could have no say at all in any operational matters. The democracy comes from their right to appoint the board. Like any old company.