The concept of a fan owned club

[Leeds Ram]

I don't see how this is going to be financially viable or sustainable in the long run. I think it's great that fan groups are getting more boisterous and demanding answers from what is an increasingly concerning situation but there is a world of difference between a useful fan presence in the direction and values of the club and actually running the club as an entity. The rams trust and others were pivotal in forcing the 3 amigos out and it's good to see renewed vigour and scrutiny in the fan base in the face of these 2 collapsed takeovers and the EFL breathing down our necks. 

It's not just the money which is a problem (although long term this is the biggest hurdle) but I doubt anyone could really agree on how to operate the club and what we should be doing. Unless, we elected members to the board on a consistent basis then the risk is we'd drown in a million and one different opinions resulting in poor decision making and sluggish responses. Electing a board comes with its own risks as we'd be in danger of shifting direction too quickly resulting in confusing policies and a lack of a coherent vision. The club is desperate for a solid sensible owner and someone who can actually run the club coherently. I don't think a fan ownership model, especially at a club as big as Derby is the right way to go.

[Shaftesbury Street]

12 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

So, had a phone call with a very helpful & knowledgeable chap from the FSA this afternoon. He didn’t dismiss the idea of fans taking over at Derby & believed a well-supported one club city would stand a better chance than most to bring about a successful fan ownership model. He also made reference to the Fan Led Review – a task force set up by Government that is specifically looking at facilitating greater fan control of clubs & sustainability. This is due to report later this year on recommendations.

He did however warn it would be extremely difficult, that the Championship in particular was a basketcase division & threw around some horrifying amounts that benevolent chairmen have had to spend to keep their clubs competitive (including Mel). Nothing to be fair we'd didn't already suspect.

Asked him a few questions on behalf of interested parties on here;

Q Have you had many past enquiries from fans of other big clubs? What were the sticking points?

Yes, plenty. General issue is either that the cost of the club is prohibitively expensive or the size of the debt is far too high for fans to reasonably service

Q What are the different types of fan ownership models?

Two main types; conventional Limited Company (with shares) or a CBS (Community Benefit Society) which is basically a mutual co-operative. A CBS has to have one member one vote irrespective of member contribution & any profits have to be ploughed back into the business. There is also potentially corporation tax exemption

Q Ways of raising money to fund a fan buyout?

Either selling shares in a conventional Limited company or via debentures/supporter bond – basically fans lend money to the new ownership group at a low rate of annual interest. Also very wise to go after High Net Worth individuals who support the club – this was the basis of the successful buy in at Portsmouth in 2013 & the purchase of the new Plough Lane ground by AFC Wimbledon in 2019

Q Standard fan involvement in fan owned clubs?

Generally is a membership scheme for a small fee which entitles each member to a vote. Supporters are then able to vote for members to be appointed to the Board, who will then appoint a Chief Executive to run the actual club (this is the model AFC Wimbledon use). Other big decisions such as a badge change, significant changes to ground etc will also go back to the membership but these can vary depending on what fans agree from the outset should go to a vote.

Q Best way of organising fans into a collective to launch a fan led buyout

Supporters Trust (yes, Ramstrust). They have the connections to FSA & are meant to represent the supporters’ interest as a whole.

 

Obviously the last point may not sit well with a few on here, particularly given the recent letter sent to the club on ‘behalf of the fans’ (I personally have no opinion on them). The guy I spoke to made it clear Ramstrust’s connections with the FSA meant they wouldn’t want to seriously engage with another DCFC group for fear of causing offence & that it would be in our best interests to bring all fan groups together (he also referenced Punjabi Rams). He certainly knew the individuals heading up Ramstrust & was also aware of some of the ill feeling from 2002-2005.

I hope the information above helps to give some perspective. I was also advised to speak to a colleague of his (when he returned from holiday) who actually led the fan buyout of Portsmouth in 2013. Think his knowledge would be invaluable particularly given similarities between a) Portsmouth & Derby as football clubs/fanbases & b) the debt mountain that had accumulated under previous ownerships

Before going down that avenue though, I think the ball is back in our court as fans i.e. is this something people want to come together & seriously look at?

For me, the route looks something a bit like this;

• Form a specific group via this forum to throw around some ideas especially around gaining support from wider fanbase, getting funding & ideas for a potential constitution and then agree on a draft plan
• Approach major DCFC fan groups; yes, RamsTrust but also Punjabi Rams to present our plan, sell them the idea & then work on an actionable plan going forward. If this goes well, probably a good time to speak to the FSA contact who led the Portsmouth buyout for specific advice before ‘going public’
• Potential two-pronged attack; float idea to fans across all social media channels/ conventional advertising in Derbyshire explaining the plan & asking for pledge of funds and target high net worth Derby fans to see if they can also commit to a pledge of funding
• Depending on what amount can credibly be raised via fans (and possibly externally) approach the club. We’re not going raise anywhere near £60m but a serious fraction of that may at least get us round a table

No doubt about it, this is a real long shot but it’s going to happen to a large club one day – why couldn’t it be us? And even if it doesn’t come off, the thought of bringing the fanbase together & actually being proactive rather than passively accepting our fate, could recharge energy & enthusiasm amongst us.

Maybe naïve but that’s my take ?

Thanks for going into such detail, really good insight.

Obviously a lot of roadblocks for this. In terms of action, that depends on how the club looks in the next 6 months or so. If we are ever in a position where the clubs future is in doubt, I would urge other fans/supporters groups to take a serious look at this. 

[kevinhectoring]

11 hours ago, AutoWindscreens said:

We hear that nobody is up for paying that £60m, and the story is that if Mel wants to find a realistic buyer he'll have to pay down some of the debt himself. If there is a chance of that happening, why not for a supporters' vehicle?

Very informative post above by @LeedsCityRam.   Must be a long shot. It’s complicated and the fan base is fragmented. So if we want this to be considered, i think it needs a letter to MM from a range of fan groups and poets asking him to get his advisers to make a proposal. That we could organise here, and if MM is not interested it’s dead in the water anyway. I doubt we could do much more without professional help, not least because we don’t have the financial information

 

[Spanish]

11 hours ago, AutoWindscreens said:

We hear that nobody is up for paying that £60m, and the story is that if Mel wants to find a realistic buyer he'll have to pay down some of the debt himself. If there is a chance of that happening, why not for a supporters' vehicle?

the running costs going forward?