Derby County Administration (with the slight possibility of Liquidation still there)

[G STAR RAM]

3 hours ago, CornwallRam said:

According to the Athletic our wage bill is a lot higher than £10m. They quoted £2.5m a month. I asked Matt Slater where he got that figure from and he said 'various sources' 

Where did you get your figure from?

Without the accounts  I suspect its going to be pretty hard to pin it down. It will be interesting to see how much of the administrators information finds its way into the public domain 

 

The club statement said we now have a sustainable model, not sure a wage bill higher than your income fits in with that statement.

The Athletic know absolutely nothing more than anyone on this forum.

A wage bill of £30m would mean a monthly PAYE bill of near £15m so if we have not paid this since Covid somewhere near £35m.

Also a wage bill of £30m between 23 players plus backroom staff would mean and average of circa £15k to £20k a week, we know a number if our staff are on £4500k a week maximum so who is on the big figures to bring this average up?

[hintonsboots]

5 minutes ago, Inverurie Ram said:

If we ever won anything I reckon we might get 69

 

[atherstoneram]

33 minutes ago, TooFarInToTurnRed said:

They have not yet but doesn’t mean they will not be, lots of clubs recording record losses and will be in discussions with their lenders/backers. The EFL I understand have agreed to exclude losses directly attributable to the pandemic from P&S loss limits.

           https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/efl-metlife-loan-championship-covid-19/

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, alexxxxx said:

Some optimism bias in that figure as well I imagine.

They are acountants. They are never optimistic. 

[I know nuffin]

6 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

He’s a Forest fan. We know that five senior players are on £4,500 per month some kids ebosele , macdonald and co will be on less . We only have a first team squad of 23 and so that’s about half the squad on about £500 k or less. so where do his unnamed sources get to £2.5 million per month ? That’s an average of well over £1million pa per squad player so must be wrong. 

bielik , jozwiak and Lawrence will be top earners in the £1m to £2m pa bracket but that’s pretty much it . You would hope we have insurance for bielik. 
 

when we were struggling to pay players wages it was said we needed £1 million for that month. That’s £12 million a year and we have cut costs since then .

Years ago when Hughes and Bryson were injured their wages or was reported were covered by insurance. If so no reason not to think bieliks wages would be covered in the same way but those wanting to paint the blackest picture would include his wages because the club paid them but forget that money came from the insurance company

[CBRammette]

3 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

They are acountants. They are never optimistic. 

Unless they are the fun crazy tax guys

[RoyMac5]

28 minutes ago, I know nuffin said:

Years ago when Hughes and Bryson were injured their wages or was reported were covered by insurance. If so no reason not to think bieliks wages would be covered in the same way but those wanting to paint the blackest picture would include his wages because the club paid them but forget that money came from the insurance company

That assumes we paid, or could afford to pay the insurance premiums.

[PistoldPete]

6 hours ago, i-Ram said:

We haven’t been losing £39m by design, we have been losing a lot, lot more. There was a difference between FFP losses and actual losses. For instance Academy costs are excluded, which lets say run at c£5m pa. 

The only 3 years we know anything about are the 3 years up to June 17/18. Morris said on Sunday we were about £4m over FFP allowed losses. So that is £43m.  Add in Academy costs of £15m. Loss now £58m. Take out the paper profit of the stadium revaluation which was I think £41m. Loss now £99m over 3 years. Ouch. You can see how the club might need £3m pumped in per month to keep it going.

The spending didn’t stop there of course. We went big again with Lampard’s arrival. Can’t personally see that it might not have been another £33m ish loss come June 18/19. Then we bought Bielik!

Only when EFL embargo and COVID kicked in did Morris smell the coffee, and his underpants.

The losses in 2015 to 2018 being £43 milion were because we depreciated signings made in that period. We sold Vydra in 2018-19 and if his value was depreciated we made a big profit on that depreciated value. Also Weimann too. By  2018-19 we were starting to reduce the wage bill.. Bent, Shackell and co gone off the wage bill. Jerome too, as well as Vydra and Weimann all ex Premier League players so on top wages. 

So the loss in 2018-19 will be big but not as much as you say.

The academy costs are not losses in any sense as they were funded by Morris.

But yeah a lot of money spent and we have so little to show for it.

 

     

[ketteringram]

5 hours ago, Inverurie Ram said:

Things are looking up, we managed to get a mighty 68 seconds on today's BBC Football Focus.

If we ever won anything I reckon we might get 69!

BBC radio five mentioned today , that our final points deduction could end up at 37. 

They didn't bother explaining that figure though ?

[Archie]

7 minutes ago, ketteringram said:

BBC radio five mentioned today , that our final points deduction could end up at 37. 

They didn't bother explaining that figure though ?

That's the play offs out the question then. Shame, fancied another trip to Wembley 

[Yani P]

we want 38 we want 38...

[ScubaRam]

37 minutes ago, ketteringram said:

BBC radio five mentioned today , that our final points deduction could end up at 37. 

They didn't bother explaining that figure though ?

Why stop there. Let’s round it up to 40 points and give us a proper challenge. 

[Yani P]

I just hope whatever the points penalty is, its finalised and handed out as soon as possible so we can plan for the future.

[alram]

1 minute ago, Yani P said:

I just hope whatever the points penalty is, its finalised and handed out as soon as possible so we can plan for the future.

yep. we cant plan anything with it lingering.

the priority of the administrators is to get all the punishments resolved.

[alram]

we have to look forward with positivity, the priority for this season is ensuring the team still exists.

it will be an unpopular take but if that means selling off assets then so be it. for me this talk of giving priority to playing staff over anything else is wrong from the administrators (i dont think its true either). We may have a -24 point deduction, for me, the season is a right off regardless of how well we have been performing. Over a long season this team is not going to get enough points to stay up. so we need to do the adult thing and plan for life going forward.

we know the club needs a solid reset, saving as many jobs as possible and preparing a younger life in league one WITH our stadium. if it means taking losses this season then for me so be it, we will be in a stronger position long term for this. you can recover from league one, you can't recover from continued financial problems and uncertainty. if we need to go down to regrow the club then so be it, but we need to survive as a club.

it is my main worry, that the talk of doing all they can to support the field on the pitch may give us short term boosts but long term could be a disasterous decision.

[Wolfie20]

9 minutes ago, alram said:

yep. we cant plan anything with it lingering.

the priority of the administrators is to get all the punishments resolved.

That is definitely not their priority. Their main objective is to ensure that Derby County are able to continue and on a secure financial footing - whatever division they happen to be in.

[Yani P]

think it all depends on the deduction..reading the administrators comments they support the opportunity to strengthen in January which I see as a positive (and they seem really bullish on us being taken over by January) - we wont benefit from a fire sale thats for sure. Its all just guesswork really until we know if its 12, 16, 21 or 138..if its 12 or 16 this team will have a fighting chance - even more so if they are allowed to bring in some additional support in January..

Edited September 25, 2021 by Yani P

[alram]

I am not sure about the adminstrators comments though. Every article including several in the athletic seem to suggest they are not really telling the truth, which is worrying to me.

we are not going to be able to strengthen in january with HMRC and whatever debts hanging over us, it is just not going to happen. HMRC are not going to allow us to sign players whilst also saying we can't pay our tax bill.

Edited September 25, 2021 by alram

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, alram said:

I am not sure about the adminstrators comments though. Every article including several in the athletic seem to suggest they are not really telling the truth, which is worrying to me.

we are not going to be able to strengthen in january with HMRC and whatever debts hanging over us, it is just not going to happen. HMRC are not going to allow us to sign players whilst also saying we can't pay our tax bill.

In what way? How on earth can you talk about January when we don't know who we will be owned by then?!

[PistoldPete]

5 minutes ago, alram said:

I am not sure about the adminstrators comments though. Every article including several in the athletic seem to suggest they are not really telling the truth, which is worrying to me.

we are not going to be able to strengthen in january with HMRC and whatever debts hanging over us, it is just not going to happen. HMRC are not going to allow us to sign players whilst also saying we can't pay our tax bill.

We wil be under transfer embargo, but probably on a one in one out basis. I don't expect we will be paying any transfer fees for players incoming, but that's between us and EFL nothing to do wth HMRC.