Rooney In!

[Jimbo Ram]

45 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

Buchanan and Knight were the stand out performers early on.  Both have faded as the season has gone on. I suspect in Knight's case he was just overplayed.

Agree, plus it became clear the Knight/Shinnie twosome in midfield wasn’t working and Wazza shifted him out wide that didn’t work either...

[Chris_Martin]

2 hours ago, Ramarena said:

Maybe so. The thing we’ll never know is what would another management team have done with this squad.

 

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Other than the one the season started with?

 

lets re-phrase that to what would another management team that isn't poo, do with this squad.

[Chris_Martin]

10 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Agree, plus it became clear the Knight/Shinnie twosome in midfield wasn’t working and Wazza shifted him out wide that didn’t work either...

i could have told him Knight out wide didn't work last season. 

[Gone]

1 hour ago, GboroRam said:

 Well, there's little I hate more than people who write like they're the oracle of all things. I could say "it's a fact that..." but that'd be bull. Of course I can't guarantee what will happen, but wait and see. I'm sure he'll be a top level player, but we aren't able to capitalise on it. I'm sure someone will though. 

Well I’m hope they pay> >£3m for him. Based on the promotional video in a Rams shirt I doubt we’d get more than £250k, unless you were pricing him on £ per scream when he gets tackled,  then we’d get ducking millions 

[Asanovic70]

2 hours ago, DCFClks said:

How can Rooney be a disappointment if you don't think anyone else could get better out the team? That doesn't make sense. Wouldn't that just make you content with Rooney? I just have to disagree, I think another manager would get more out of them. How many clubs in our position in the past, sack a manager and need someone to come in and save them from relegation, hire a complete unqualified novice? it's unheard of. Other clubs in this situation would hire an experienced manager to hopefully see them through. I believe if we went for someone like Mick McCarthy (who's previously got the best out of Lawrence and Waghorn at Ipswich) he'd would do enough to keep us up.

Rooney play's worse football than anyone else in the league and for me has shown no tactical nous what so ever. Even teams with mostly league 1 players like Rotherham play better. Would it not even be worth a Mac all or nothing gamble? he's had instant results before.

I think Rooney did make an immediate impact, we went on a run of 6W in 8 which got most of us thinking that our season had turned around, conceding 5 goals in 13 games after conceding 20 in the first 13 & getting 1 clean-sheet under Cocu.

What has been alarming is how quickly it all began to unravel again, a run of 1W in 11 & 6 goals scored in 10 games (7L). We are soft touch on the road, losing 6 out of the last 7. Others have flagged up some interesting criticism that Rooney began to change things too much after naming a settled line-up.

I mentioned Paul Cook in my first post because he hasn't had the desired impact Ipswich hoped - and he is an experienced manager. He hasn't been able to bring him any of his own players to play in his preferred style. Rooney had a transfer window but matters off-field meant he had to bring in loans, two of whom are PL reserves. Lee Bowyer has done better but he had Jutkiewicz and Hogan as experienced strikers.

I advocated  Mick McCarthy when things were desperate. He had just been appointed for a job in Cyprus so we will never know. As for yesterday, the commentator & pundit (Kevin Gallacher) I listened to mentioned one move involving Lawrence where he chose the wrong option. They both thought that is why he has remained in the Championship despite being a good player. 

A lack of attacking quality

There have been a lot of fine margins, but goals are what win games and 31 is a dreadful return. It's a squad game. Look at the BBC stats page for the Championship, browsing top assists, Huddersfield have a player on 7, Birmingham, Coventry & Wycombe have one each on 6 and even Sheff W have Windass on 5. There isn't a single Rams player listed. If correct, our joint top assists are Byrne & Waghorn on 3 with Buchanan on two. Harding of Rotherham is on 4.

Worst perfoming team in terms of chances created in open play

As pointed out, on whoscored, we are amongst the lowest ranked sides in terms of chances created from Open Play (14), Huddersfield have scored 30 by comparison. McCarthy tends to play direct effective football so set-pieces would have been important but do we really have players, even our attackers, capable of putting in good delivery?

Yes, some of them are probably underperforming for whatever reason, Jozwiak facing the challenge of coming to terms with a new league and the physical demands of it, but if we go down, it will be for a number of factors (injuries, inconsistency as mentioned by @RoyMac5) as well as the simple fact this squad lacked depth and cover and was not good enough especially in terms of goals created and scored. 

I really think few managers would turn this situation around &  I think your comments about McClaren are wishing thinking, but who knows? I think fatigue has also taken its toll on a thin squad, the likes of Knight has gone from being a manager's dream to losing both his place and the captaincy.

[Chris_Martin]

4 hours ago, DCFClks said:

Rooney has shown no tactical nous what so ever. Even teams with mostly league 1 players like Rotherham play better. 

i completely agree. 

Not once in all the games he's been in charge has he set us up to just out play our opponent, or at least try to. Every single game is the same, "how can we stop the other team" Even against the likes of Wycombe he just tried to match them and hope we would come out on top. Tactically you can't get much worse than that. There has been little to no progression from game one under Rooney until now. I understand him saying we can't build a proper identity/way of playing because we're deep in relegation trouble. However, if he had come in and tried to develop a style from the start, I'm fairly sure 30 odd games down the line we would be better off than where we are now.

[Bubbles]

Get him out. ASAP.

[RoyMac5]

8 hours ago, Asanovic70 said:

I mentioned Paul Cook in my first post because he hasn't had the desired impact Ipswich hoped - and he is an experienced manager. He hasn't been able to bring him any of his own players to play in his preferred style. Rooney had a transfer window but matters off-field meant he had to bring in loans, two of whom are PL reserves. Lee Bowyer has done better but he had Jutkiewicz and Hogan as experienced strikers.

There are other managers that haven't afforded teams the miracle transformation the fans expected. Or if it has happened, like with Rooney it's not lasted. There is no 'magic spell' of transformation. If the squad isn't good enough it will get found out, at whatever level is being played. For me contrary to what some are saying, Rooney at least does make changes during games when things don't go as expected - but that also is within the limits of a small squad, no good calling for subs when they're less experienced/reliable than what's on the pitch! He has shown he knows what to do, for me what remains is having the players to attempt that - he deserves that chance.

8 hours ago, Asanovic70 said:

Yes, some of them are probably underperforming for whatever reason...but if we go down, it will be for a number of factors (injuries, inconsistency) as well as the simple fact this squad lacked depth and cover and was not good enough especially in terms of goals created and scored. 

I really think few managers would turn this situation around &  I think your comments about McClaren are wishing thinking, but who knows? I think fatigue has also taken its toll on a thin squad, the likes of Knight has gone from being a manager's dream to losing both his place and the captaincy.

I love Mac's football to bits, but I cannot believe he would have got better results consistently from these players.

Edited April 18, 2021 by RoyMac5

[Jimbo Ram]

56 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

There are other managers that haven't afforded teams the miracle transformation the fans expected. Or if it has happened, like with Rooney it's not lasted. There is no 'magic spell' of transformation. If the squad isn't good enough it will get found out, at whatever level is being played. For me contrary to what some are saying, Rooney at least does make changes during games when things don't go as expected - but that also is within the limits of a small squad, no good calling for subs when they're less experienced/reliable than what's on the pitch! He has shown he knows what to do, for me what remains is having the players to attempt that - he deserves that chance.

I love Mac's football to bits, but I cannot believe he would have got better results consistently from these players.

Can I just clarify RoyMac, you were keen to remove Cocu playing the style he did and getting the poo results he did but support Wazza who plays almost the same way and gets the same poo results, just wanted to check I was reading your stance correctly ?

[RoyMac5]

20 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Can I just clarify RoyMac, you were keen to remove Cocu playing the style he did and getting the poo results he did but support Wazza who plays almost the same way and gets the same poo results, just wanted to check I was reading your stance correctly ?

How long did Cocu have, how many preseasons and transfer windows? Compare and contrast! You didn't get the point did you.

[Jimbo Ram]

12 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

How long did Cocu have, how many preseasons and transfer windows? Compare and contrast! You didn't get the point did you.

He had one and a bit seasons didn’t he and had to cope with the loss of the 3 loan internationals without really being able to replace them. Pre-seasons for Cocu? He joined about 2 weeks before the start of the season didn’t he so I think he had 1. I think I get the point but don’t really understand it, think you are on dodgy ground really saying how poo Cocu was and what a great job Wazza is doing. I think if you were honest with yourself you realise this too ??

[Parsnip]

No point in sacking Rooney now. We missed a golden opportunity before that last international break when we had a few games left. I'd have sacked Rooney then and got on the blower to Chris Wilder to come and sort this mess out.

For now though, if it was my club, I'd be telling Rooney that if he can keep us up then he can have a free hit next season. Total backing, bring in his own players - a personal guarantee of a full season to implement his own style. Hopefully with that carrot in mind he'll drag a few points out of the lads and keep us up.

And while he's doing that I'd be on the blower to Chris Wilder to come and sort this mess out after I've explained to Wayne that my personal guarantees ain't worth nowt.

 

[DCFC Kicks]

10 hours ago, Asanovic70 said:

I think Rooney did make an immediate impact, we went on a run of 6W in 8 which got most of us thinking that our season had turned around, conceding 5 goals in 13 games after conceding 20 in the first 13 & getting 1 clean-sheet under Cocu.

But teams having an initial impact when a new manager comes in happens all the time. Oppositions don't know how the new manager is going to set up and how to counter them, but once the first team "finds them out" the initial impact fades. Also Bielik was a massive factor as well. But I'll just give Rooney the benefit of the doubt and say he did well when he first arrived, but for me the key problem is the regression of performances. If we started worse but gradually improved I could accept that but it's the opposite. The constant and increasing almost erratic changes of tactics and lineups are always a sign a manger is running out of ideas.

10 hours ago, Asanovic70 said:

A lack of attacking quality

Worst perfoming team in terms of chances created in open play

But why do you automatically blame the players for this? Is it not the tactics and setup which create chances as well? As I've argued in previous posts, I believe we have more quality than other teams around us in the table and if you put many of our players in other teams they'd create/score more. I understand the striker injury problem is massive, but that's only happened recently. I still believe even with all our injury problems, we still have a better team that many of our relegation rivals.

For me our main problem is the manager. We sacked Cocu and his team and literally didn't replace them, we just promoted coaches who were already here! I'm not holding it against them, but Rooney and Rosenior were originally brought in to be coaches, there first jobs while they learnt, which I was happy with. Why are they now our manager and assistant? It's like Tottenham sacking Mourinho and just promoting Ledley King and Ryan Mason. Except even worse!

 

11 hours ago, Asanovic70 said:

McCarthy tends to play direct effective football so set-pieces would have been important but do we really have players, even our attackers, capable of putting in good delivery?

I think Byrne can put in a decent delivery, but I've been saying for years we don't have a good set-piece taker(except while Wilson was here) but that's an angry post about our recruitment team for another thread?

 

[DCFC Kicks]

10 hours ago, Chris_Martin said:

i completely agree. 

Not once in all the games he's been in charge has he set us up to just out play our opponent, or at least try to. Every single game is the same, "how can we stop the other team" Even against the likes of Wycombe he just tried to match them and hope we would come out on top. Tactically you can't get much worse than that. There has been little to no progression from game one under Rooney until now. I understand him saying we can't build a proper identity/way of playing because we're deep in relegation trouble. However, if he had come in and tried to develop a style from the start, I'm fairly sure 30 odd games down the line we would be better off than where we are now.

Then Akinfenwa came on and we couldn't handle him

[Steve How Hard?]

Hopefully this is Wazza after the last game of the season. Sat there content in the knowledge that the job is done and our championship status is secured.

[LeedsCityRam]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

How long did Cocu have, how many preseasons and transfer windows? Compare and contrast! You didn't get the point did you.

This has been explained a few times but lets have another attempt at debunking this. 

Cocu arrived right at the end of the first transfer window. The window closed 5th August 2019. He started as Derby manager 5th July & immediately had to go on a 2 week jaunt to Florida to assess the players in training camp. It is extremely misleading to suggest that was a proper transfer window or that he had plenty of time to implement ideas.

January 2020 transfer window we were under a soft transfer embargo. He was unable to bring anyone in. 

Summer 2020 we were supposedly under a soft transfer embargo for part of the window in lieu of the EFL charge. Once resolved, we brought in a batch of half decent players (Byrne, Marshall, Jozwiak, Kazim)

[Jimbo Ram]

2 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

This has been explained a few times but lets have another attempt at debunking this. 

Cocu arrived right at the end of the first transfer window. The window closed 5th August 2019. He started as Derby manager 5th July & immediately had to go on a 2 week jaunt to Florida to assess the players in training camp. It is extremely misleading to suggest that was a proper transfer window or that he had plenty of time to implement ideas.

January 2020 transfer window we were under a soft transfer embargo. He was unable to bring anyone in. 

Summer 2020 we were supposedly under a soft transfer embargo for part of the window in lieu of the EFL charge. Once resolved, we brought in a batch of half decent players (Byrne, Marshall, Jozwiak, Kazim)

He also had to cope with the loss of Mount, Tomori and Wilson who really camouflaged the weaknesses in the squad he inherited....

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

This has been explained a few times but lets have another attempt at debunking this. 

Still longer than Rooney and more opportunity to spend - when Rooney's had the £xmillion that Bielik cost come back then! ?

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Jimbo Ram said:

He also had to cope with the loss of Mount, Tomori and Wilson who really camouflaged the weaknesses in the squad he inherited....

Rooney has at least attempted to fill some gaps. He didn't have Mount, Wilson or Tomori either.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Lets face it, if his name wasn't Wayne Rooney there'd be much less support for him on the merits of this season. But it's also the case there more than one who want to stick the knife in because he's wayne rooney (and how he got the job).

The truth as I see it is he's not doing great but there's not point in changing now with 4 games left and it'd be quite unfair to write him off on the basis of this season. I Just hope and prey we get the 6-7 points we need.