The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[alexxxxx]

Going to Spain next week... Just got to avoid getting covid till then. 

I knew there were a lot of things you need to fill in and tests to get etc but it really does make everything less relaxing.

[Bob The Badger]

9 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Former President Donald Trump recommended Tuesday night that Americans get vaccinated for COVID-19, a potentially key endorsement as recent polling has shown some Republicans are expressing reluctance toward being inoculated.

In an interview Tuesday on Fox News, former President Donald Trump recommended Tuesday night that Americans get vaccinated for COVID-19

It’s the second time Trump has publicly endorsed the vaccines, but, unlike other political figures, he has not made a forceful push to promote the shots

“I would recommend it,” Trump said in a phone interview with Fox News. “And I would recommend it to a lot of people that don't want to get it, and a lot of those people voted for me, frankly.”

 

Just to show how easy it is to dress misinformation up as 'fact'.

 

Not sure what your source is (please post a link) but irrespective, this entire conversation is about the run up to the election and Trump did not tell his supporters to get vaccinated before then, it was 3 or 4 months after when the real damage had been done.

Even as late as April his aides were saying according to Politico:

Former President Donald Trump’s unwillingness to pitch his voters on getting the jab has become the source of frustration for former aides, who lament the political benefits that would have come had he done so. It has also worried health officials from his own administration, who told POLITICO about a months long effort to get him to publicly take the lead; and medical experts, who say a full-throated endorsement could sway vaccine skeptics on the right and get the country closer to herd immunity.

The nub of this is, was Trump responsible for tens of thousand of deaths because he refused to wear a mask or push his supporters to get the vaccine whilst in power?

And the answer is an unequivocal yes of course he was.

And has Biden tried (and not succeeded in fairness) to reverse that?

Again the answer is yes, I've no clue what else, short of mandating vaccinations (which would never happen in the US) he could do.

Especially as Governors who wield the real power in States like DeSantis and Greg Abbott as well as Senators like Ron Johnson and the Whip, Steve Scalise are still pushing back. And they are doing so because they're all rabid Trump supporters.

A bit like the succession of Conservative radio hosts who are now dropping like flies after telling their Trump loving listeners that they didn't need the vaccine. You certainly don't to die and ignominious death that's for sure.

There's a cognitive bias called primacy effect in which people better remember and give more weight to initial information they acquire. Trump spent months telling his supporters that it was all a hoax, and then that it would go away, and then with his bizarre exit from hospital and suppression of how sick he really was (according to insiders and medical experts) tacitly suggesting that you'll be ok.

Saying on Fox News, an organisation that has haemorrhaged viewers to far right stations like OAN and Newsmax because they admitted Biden won months after he left power, is welcome, but too little and too late.  

 

[G STAR RAM]

7 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Not sure what your source is (please post a link) but irrespective, this entire conversation is about the run up to the election and Trump did not tell his supporters to get vaccinated before then, it was 3 or 4 months after when the real damage had been done.

Even as late as April his aides were saying according to Politico:

Former President Donald Trump’s unwillingness to pitch his voters on getting the jab has become the source of frustration for former aides, who lament the political benefits that would have come had he done so. It has also worried health officials from his own administration, who told POLITICO about a months long effort to get him to publicly take the lead; and medical experts, who say a full-throated endorsement could sway vaccine skeptics on the right and get the country closer to herd immunity.

The nub of this is, was Trump responsible for tens of thousand of deaths because he refused to wear a mask or push his supporters to get the vaccine whilst in power?

And the answer is an unequivocal yes of course he was.

And has Biden tried (and not succeeded in fairness) to reverse that?

Again the answer is yes, I've no clue what else, short of mandating vaccinations (which would never happen in the US) he could do.

Especially as Governors who wield the real power in States like DeSantis and Greg Abbott as well as Senators like Ron Johnson and the Whip, Steve Scalise are still pushing back. And they are doing so because they're all rabid Trump supporters.

A bit like the succession of Conservative radio hosts who are now dropping like flies after telling their Trump loving listeners that they didn't need the vaccine. You certainly don't to die and ignominious death that's for sure.

There's a cognitive bias called primacy effect in which people better remember and give more weight to initial information they acquire. Trump spent months telling his supporters that it was all a hoax, and then that it would go away, and then with his bizarre exit from hospital and suppression of how sick he really was (according to insiders and medical experts) tacitly suggesting that you'll be ok.

Saying on Fox News, an organisation that has haemorrhaged viewers to far right stations like OAN and Newsmax because they admitted Biden won months after he left power, is welcome, but too little and too late.  

Lets not try moving the goalposts.

Your post stated:-

"And another fact is Trump has never told people to get vaccinated"

Turns out your 'fact' was not a fact at all and just an opinion as another poster alluded to.

No problem with your opinion, you could well be correct and you most likely to have more knowledge of the subject than me.

Problem is, when you talk other posters down and tell everyone that you are only posting 'facts' which then get disproved, it makes you look a little silly and easy for other posters to later talk down your opinions.

Just something for you to think about before the next time you are telling people how stupid I am and how knowledgeable you are ?

[Comrade 86]

14 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Just something for you to think about before the next time you are telling people how stupid I am and how knowledgeable you are ?

[G STAR RAM]

10 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

?

[Bob The Badger]

12 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Lets not try moving the goalposts.

Your post stated:-

"And another fact is Trump has never told people to get vaccinated"

Turns out your 'fact' was not a fact at all and just an opinion as another poster alluded to.

No problem with your opinion, you could well be correct and you most likely to have more knowledge of the subject than me.

Problem is, when you talk other posters down and tell everyone that you are only posting 'facts' which then get disproved, it makes you look a little silly and easy for other posters to later talk down your opinions.

Just something for you to think about before the next time you are telling people how stupid I am and how knowledgeable you are ?

Me saying I'm knowledgable on a topic (of which there are very few but US politics is in the top 2 or 3) does not imply other people are stupid, that's your own projection or insecurities. 

I'm not stupid, but you wouldn't have found me debating UK politics other than generalities whilst I lived in the US. I couldn't have even named more than a couple of Cabinet members because it wasn't covered in the US and I wasn't that bothered because it didn't impact me.

That statement is clearly wrong, but you know very well we are talking about the lead up to the election so if you take out was then it's entirely true.

And when it comes to goal post moving:

You said that 400k died under Trumps watch and 250k under Biden when it was just shy of 500k and 150k respectively.

That Biden didn't call for the vaccine in the election cycle because he wanted to win, when there wasn't even a vaccine to call for, but he did call for mask wearing a LOT. And as soon as the vaccine was rolled out he supported it when he wasn't the President.

And you evidently believing (because it's they that are suffering) that Trump supporters sucked up what Biden was saying (even though he didn't actually say it) based on a carefully edited video with zero context that was produced after the fact by Republicans.

It would have been largely Democrats dying now and not Republicans if Trump haters did suck up what Biden said, or rather didn't.

Also, you suggested mask-wearing didn't work even though almost every member of the Oval Office staff caught Covid and almost no senior Democrats did.

That stuff isn't hard to talk down.

[Stive Pesley]

7 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

that's your own projection or insecurities

Congartulations - you have taken step 1 on the path to learning not to waste time arguing with @G STAR RAM ?

[G STAR RAM]

25 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Me saying I'm knowledgable on a topic (of which there are very few but US politics is in the top 2 or 3) does not imply other people are stupid, that's your own projection or insecurities. 

Yes, apologies, you did not call me stupid but if you look back at your post I think you will find it was very derogatory and insinuating such.

I'm not stupid, but you wouldn't have found me debating UK politics other than generalities whilst I lived in the US. I couldn't have even named more than a couple of Cabinet members because it wasn't covered in the US and I wasn't that bothered because it didn't impact me.

There is a huge difference between debating the intricacies of American politics and debating the most reported on event in our lifetime.

That statement is clearly wrong, but you know very well we are talking about the lead up to the election so if you take out was then it's entirely true.

Fair point.

And when it comes to goal post moving:

You said that 400k died under Trumps watch and 250k under Biden when it was just shy of 500k and 150k respectively.

I don't remember without looking back but sure I linked various articles to back up the figure I used, just as I am sure you could find links to back up your figure. 

Thatt Biden didn't call for the vaccine in the election cycle because he wanted to win, when there wasn't even a vaccine to call for, but he did call for mask wearing a LOT. And as soon as the vaccine was rolled out he supported it when he wasn't the President.

We all know there was a vaccine on the way and we all know he played politics with it.

And you evidently believing (because it's they that are suffering) that Trump supporters sucked up what Biden was saying (even though he didn't actually say it) based on a carefully edited video with zero context that was produced after the fact by Republicans.

Ive made no such assertion that Trump supporters sucked up what Biden said.

It would have been largely Democrats dying now and not Republicans if Trump haters did suck up what Biden said, or rather didn't.

Also, you suggested mask-wearing didn't work even though almost every member of the Oval Office staff caught Covid and almost no senior Democrats did.

Is this a fact? Aren't 1 in 3 cases assymptomatic?

This stuff isn't hard to talk down.

 

[G STAR RAM]

26 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Congartulations - you have taken step 1 on the path to learning not to waste time arguing with @G STAR RAM ?

?

[Archied]

32 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Congartulations - you have taken step 1 on the path to learning not to waste time arguing with @G STAR RAM ?

When will you be taking step 1 ?

[Anon]

37 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

That statement is clearly wrong

Well, that was like squeezing blood from a stone. Don't worry, there's no shame in admitting that you were completely wrong.

[Bob The Badger]

Quote

There is a huge difference between debating the intricacies of American politics and debating the most reported on event in our lifetime.

But Bidens daily schedule and talks weren't covered over here and it's there that he was pushing mask-wearing and then the vaccine. I saw him at different events once he was on the road multiple times per day and he always had a mask on and was calling for people to be sensible.

The debates were scuppered by Trump because of him refusing to both debate remotely or guarantee the safety of attendees if there was a debate in person.

At the first debate his side agreed to wear masks and then none of them did once they sat down. 

Trump openly mocked Biden for wearing a mask and also for going into lockdown, even questioning his manhood.

He had his Covid jab a month BEFORE he took office live on TV and almost as soon as it was available. So didNancy Pelosi.

Although Mike Pence had his on TV, Trump didn't and (ttbomk) it wasn't oficially announced he'd even had it.

I have talked with @Eatonram a LOT about politics because he has followed it closely here for about 112 years and I was amazed how few of Trump's utter duck ups had little to no coverage over here.

So I'm damn sure some of these lesser stories didn't break through the UK news.

Quote

I don't remember without looking back but sure I linked various articles to back up the figure I used, just as I am sure you could find links to back up your figure. 

I largely went on memory because I had the John Hopkins tracker open for about a year and there was also much talk whether it would go over the half a million mark before Biden took office. It didn't, quite.

Can't be arsed to scroll back but I don't think you linked to anything.

Quote

We all know there was a vaccine on the way and we all know he played politics with it.

If you mean fully supporting it once it was cleared then yes, you are right. 

I bet those clips were taken from at least 4 or 6 months prior to the vaccine being available and I've explained why they were suspicious of Trump because he started leaning on the drug companies immediately because of the political gain he would have experienced. 

Quote

Ive made no such assertion that Trump supporters sucked up what Biden said.

How else can you explain you saying that those clips influenced people into not taking the vaccine? Do you think Democrats didn't take it because of something Biden said (and again, it was out of context) months earlier?  Come on man!

Quote

Is this a fact? Aren't 1 in 3 cases assymptomatic?

We can only look at reported cases.

Almost 30 people close to Trump contracted Covid, but I cannot remember a single senior Dem getting it. I could be wrong because I am going on memory, maybe there were one or two.

But certainly none of the stature of people like Trump himself, his personal aide Hicks, ex-NY Governor, Chris Christie, Trump jnr, Herman Caine (who died), his press secretary Kayleigh McEnany, his senior advisor Stephen Miller, his wife and son Barron and a whole lot more people in his orbit.

T

[therealhantsram]

3 hours ago, alexxxxx said:

Going to Spain next week... Just got to avoid getting covid till then. 

I knew there were a lot of things you need to fill in and tests to get etc but it really does make everything less relaxing.

Curious... Is there any travel insurance that will pay out if you get Covid the week before and are unable to travel?

[maxjam]

1 hour ago, Bob The Badger said:

Not sure what your source is (please post a link) but irrespective, this entire conversation is about the run up to the election and Trump did not tell his supporters to get vaccinated before then, it was 3 or 4 months after when the real damage had been done.

Even as late as April his aides were saying according to Politico:

@G STAR RAMis probably quoting an article similar to this that the BBC published in March;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56424614

As for Trumps comments re. the vaccine before the election, some can be found below;  Maybe some political bias or the news channels you watch in the US play into your bias against Trump?

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/mar/04/rachel-maddow/what-trump-said-encourage-covid-19-vaccine-use/

 

1 hour ago, Bob The Badger said:

That statement is clearly wrong, but you know very well we are talking about the lead up to the election so if you take out was then it's entirely true.

And when it comes to goal post moving:

You said that 400k died under Trumps watch and 250k under Biden when it was just shy of 500k and 150k respectively.

 

Whilst I was never convinced about Trumps suitability to be President, the way he was treated whilst in Office was eye-opening.  as noted in the article linked above, Trumps preferred method of communication was Twitter - from which he was banned before the election.  He had already tweeted out 'get your shots' before he was banned but then obviously switched to moaning about election bias/stolen election instead.

Furthermore whilst Trump may have presided over the most covid deaths, surely thats been the same virtually everywhere - the first wave has been the most devastating.  And lets not forget that a lot of those early deaths came in Democrat strongholds such as New York. 

Having previously been commended for his approach to covid and profiting from it with his 'Leadership Lessons' book NY Mayor Andrew Cuomo's policies ultimately led to the death of a lot of people, so many in fact that he tried to cover a few up...

https://www.nytimes.com/article/andrew-cuomo-nursing-home-deaths.html

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-new-york-adds-12-000-coronavirus-deaths-after-andrew-cuomo-stands-down-as-governor-12390625

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by maxjam
mucho typo

[Bob The Badger]

29 minutes ago, Anon said:

Well, that was like squeezing blood from a stone. Don't worry, there's no shame in admitting that you were completely wrong.

Fabulous retort.

 

[Bob The Badger]

1 minute ago, maxjam said:

@G STAR RAMis probably quoting an article similar to this that the BBC published in March;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56424614

For Trumps comments re. the vaccine some can be found below;  Maybe some political bias or the news channels you watch in the US play into your bias against Trump?

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/mar/04/rachel-maddow/what-trump-said-encourage-covid-19-vaccine-use/

 

Whilst I was never convinced about Trumps suitability to be President, they was he was treated whilst in Office was eye-opening.  as noted in the article linked above, Trumps preferred method of communication was Twitter - from which he was banned before the election.  He had already tweeted out 'get your shots' before he was banned but then obviously switched to moaning about election bias/stolen election instead.

Furthermore whilst Trump may have presided over the most covid deaths, surely thats been the same virtually everywhere - the first wave has been the most devastating.  And lets not forget that a lot of those early deaths came in Democrat strongholds such as New York.  Having previously been commended for his approach to covid and profiting from it with his 'Leadership Lessons' book NY Mayor Andrew Cuomo's policies ultimately led to the death of a lot of people, so many in fact that he tried to cover a few up...

https://www.nytimes.com/article/andrew-cuomo-nursing-home-deaths.html

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-new-york-adds-12-000-coronavirus-deaths-after-andrew-cuomo-stands-down-as-governor-12390625

 

Trump was banned from Twitter 2-months AFTER the election because of Jan 6th insurrection that he was encouraging on Twitter.

I was gutted he was banned because I loved reading his rants.

I read at much Breitbart (still do read it every day) as I watched CNN.

And on the radio when out and about I'd rotate between Fox News and CNN.

Nobody is defending Cuomo, that's another goalpost move.

I'm defending Biden and saying he did what he could.

Cuomo is culpable and may end up in court in some way shape or form.

And Trump was treated badly by the media, I've never said otherwise. But he deserved most of it.

[Gaspode]

Could someone confirm that this discussion is still about Covid and hasn't morphed into a new politics threaad?

[maxjam]

3 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Trump was banned from Twitter 2-months AFTER the election because of Jan 6th insurrection that he was encouraging on Twitter.

I was gutted he was banned because I loved reading his rants.

I read at much Breitbart (still do read it every day) as I watched CNN.

And on the radio when out and about I'd rotate between Fox News and CNN.

Nobody is defending Cuomo, that's another goalpost move.

I'm defending Biden and saying he did what he could.

Cuomo is culpable and may end up in court in some way shape or form.

And Trump was treated badly by the media, I've never said otherwise. But he deserved most of it.

I forgot the actual date he was banned tbh but the point still stands - whilst he could have been clearly and more vocal, he was telling people to trust the vaccines and get their shots.

Cuomo isn't a goalpost move.  If you are going to blame Trump for the majority of the deaths under his watch, you have to take account of individual states that as Florida and Texas are doing under Biden, can act alone.

FWIW, I am not defending/supporting either Biden or Trump just pointing out that politics, especially in the US where things are so polar opposite, have contributed to the death count.

[Stive Pesley]

28 minutes ago, maxjam said:

just pointing out that politics, especially in the US where things are so polar opposite, have contributed to the death count.

yeah in the case of the UK it's just been pure incompetence and a lack of useful opposition!

[Norman]

Oh dear. Those spouting facts obviously haven't watched the Trump speech when he urged supporters to get vaccinated at a rally. He was booed. And he said 'I support your freedom of choice' amid the boos. 

And the same people go on about cognitive bias. Lolololololololololololololololololol. 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Norman