The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[Bob The Badger]

9 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

No but I have a pretty decent professional understanding of construction engineering and understood the potential risk. However in terms of vaccinating kids, I’ve been watching/reading with interest the way American doctors are putting teens on medication with such ease, then those teens becoming total nutcases and taking guns into schools and stuff. 
 

Then the inner conspiracist in me sees who’s behind the insistence of vaccinations and their potential reasoning and then think “Wait….”  

Which drugs were causing kids to take guns into school?

It's a lot harder than it was 15 or 20 years ago, but it most definitely is easier to get a doctor to prescribe you drugs in the US, but I never heard about what you're referring to so I'm curious as to what drug or drugs caused this change in kids?

[G STAR RAM]

5 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Good point, I'm not at all sure why he didn't trust him.

I suppose it could have been because he suggested hydroxychloroquine was a cure when it wasn't.

Or maybe it was him telling people around him not to wear masks and then they all caught Covid as did a lot of non-mask wearing Republicans and very few mask wearing Democrats. Strange coincidence that.

It could have even been that Trump thought injecting bleach into people was worth the scientists  investigating.

Clearly they are all flimsy reasons for not trusting the POTUS to do something unscrupulous just before an election, so who knows what the real reason was my well informed friend? Who really knows?

Or maybe it could be because he thought getting himself elected qas more important than saving lives and he knew the Trump haters would suck up everything anti Trump, like you say though, who knows?

[Eddie]

14 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Or maybe it could be because he thought getting himself elected qas more important than saving lives and he knew the Trump haters would suck up everything anti Trump, like you say though, who knows?

Nail, meet head.

People will always selectively filter 'news' - and where it meets one's own agenda, viewpoint or even gut feeling, it will always be more readily accepted. Minds are always difficult to change, and even when something seems so utterly glaringly obvious, there are always those who will look for - or adhere to - an alternative explanation.

It's one of the reasons why I (frequently) bandy about the expression "Occam's Razor" which basically suggests that the explanation requiring the fewest number of assumptions is likely to be the correct - or the more correct - one.

[Stive Pesley]

22 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

The day we are putting the younger generation at risk to save the older generation, I'm afraid we have lost the whole point of life

I know this is off topic and into the forbidden land, but I still find it hard to square such grand statements about caring so much for our kids' futures - with stuff like you know...voting Tory , voting to leave the EU, shrugging shoulders at climate change etc etc

[G STAR RAM]

32 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I know this is off topic and into the forbidden land, but I still find it hard to square such grand statements about caring so much for our kids' futures - with stuff like you know...voting Tory , voting to leave the EU, shrugging shoulders at climate change etc etc

Can you provide any tangible evidence of voting Tory or leaving the EU potentially putting my children's lives at risk?

As @maxjamsaid previously, the climate change thing is a pretty futile debate.

I can't square people shutting down the centre of London, which is in a country that is doing its bit for climate change, when if they are that bothered about the problem they should be holding their protests in China, India or America.

[Stive Pesley]

8 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Can you provide any tangible evidence of voting Tory or leaving the EU potentially putting my children's lives at risk?

I could but it will only get deleted - so I won't waste my time. Suffice to say that I could provide just as much "tangible evidence" as you can for your hyperbolic statement about "putting the younger generation at risk to save the older generation"

 

[G STAR RAM]

17 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I could but it will only get deleted - so I won't waste my time. Suffice to say that I could provide just as much "tangible evidence" as you can for your hyperbolic statement about "putting the younger generation at risk to save the older generation"

I think deaths caused directly by a vaccine are probably much easier to prove than anecdotal evidence about a vote indirectly causing my kids to die earlier.

[Stive Pesley]

12 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I think deaths caused directly by a vaccine are probably much easier to prove than anecdotal evidence about a vote indirectly causing my kids to die earlier.

So that's how you square it. I think you've answered my question ?

[G STAR RAM]

26 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

So that's how you square it. I think you've answered my question ?

No not at all, just a shortened answer.

Without your supposed evidence that voting Tory or Leave will potentially shorten my children's lives though there is not really much to respond to?

[Bob The Badger]

8 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Or maybe it could be because he thought getting himself elected qas more important than saving lives and he knew the Trump haters would suck up everything anti Trump, like you say though, who knows?

I'm not sure how closely you follow US politics - although it would appear not that closely - but I have followed it since the mid-80s and extremely closely for 15 years I lived there up until the week before Biden won.

Biden was calling for masks months before the election. He was never seen in public without one during the election cycle.

The doubt over how Trump would manipulate the vaccine was based on Trump trying to manipulate the vaccine roll out by leaning on drug companies.

These are objective facts not my opinion.

It's also an objective fact that the leaders of the GOP, notably Kevin McCarthy the leader in the House and Mitch McConnell the leader in the Senate didn't come out in favour of mask wearing until after Trump's super spreader event in McConnnell's case and not at all in McCarthy's.

Trump acolyte and Florida Governor, Ron DeSantis is in the middle of a legal battle to stop local education authorities for issuing mask mandates.

And another fact is Trump has never told people to get vaccinated and millions of his supporters haven't done so directly because of that. 

I'm disappointed in Biden's tenure to date, but the one thing he has been consistant with is urging people to do whatever they can (wear masks, wash hands, stay home and get vaccinated).

He didn't urge people to get vaccinated before the election because there wasn't one.

However, he was telling people to get it before he was inaugurated and thus risked helping Trump's legacy.

I don't know when those interviews were given (I suspect around early summer), but I do know they were carefully edited to make it look like they were doubting the vaccine as opposed to Trump's handling of it.

It's ludicrous to suggest that Biden is in any way responsible for the deaths, just as it's ludicrous to suggest Trump is responsible for all of them.

Biden has tried to get people to mask up and get vaccinated and a lot of people are doing the opposite 100% because of Trump.

Nobody is not having the vaccine because of an  interview Biden or Harris gave at least a year ago in which they said they didn't trust Trump because Democrats agree and Republicans don't care.

 

[G STAR RAM]

51 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

And another fact is Trump has never told people to get vaccinated and millions of his supporters haven't done so directly because of that. 

Nobody is not having the vaccine because of an  interview Biden or Harris gave at least a year ago in which they said they didn't trust Trump because Democrats agree and Republicans don't care.

So Trump doesn't tell everyone to get vaccinated so his followers don't, Biden talks the vaccine down before he is elected and it has no effect on his followers.

And this is a fact apparently?

Yes, sounds very plausible, especially if you have followed American politics for a long time.

Something about a parallel universe.

[Bob The Badger]

58 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So Trump doesn't tell everyone to get vaccinated so his followers don't, Biden talks the vaccine down before he is elected and it has no effect on his followers.

And this is a fact apparently?

Yes, sounds very plausible, especially if you have followed American politics for a long time.

Something about a parallel universe.

Jeez.

Biden never talked the vaccine down.

NEVER.

And if he did talk the vaccine down, which he didn't, and people listened to him, which they didn't because he didn't say it, then you'd have Democrats not getting vaccinated, not the Republican Trump supporters who currently make up the overwhelming majority. 

In 25 years of using message board I'm not sure that I have ever come across anybody so attached to a singular viewpoint and so utterly incapable of accepting facts.

Much of this thread is subjective and just people's opinions, but this isn't.

You're arguing on a topic that you clearly know very little about and I'm confused as to why.

Even though I loosely followed UK politics I rarely got involved in debates on here because I knew I didn't know enough.

I'm not sure you realise when you're out of your depth.

Or you're just a brilliant wind-up merchant. 

One or the other.

[G STAR RAM]

12 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Jeez.

Biden never talked the vaccine down.

NEVER.

And if he did talk the vaccine down, which he didn't, and people listened to him, which they didn't because he didn't say it, then you'd have Democrats not getting vaccinated, not the Republican Trump supporters who currently make up the overwhelming majority. 

In 25 years of using message board I'm not sure that I have ever come across anybody so attached to a singular viewpoint and so utterly incapable of accepting facts.

Much of this thread is subjective and just people's opinions, but this isn't.

You're arguing on a topic that you clearly know very little about and I'm confused as to why.

Even though I loosely followed UK politics I rarely got involved in debates on here because I knew I didn't know enough.

I'm not sure you realise when you're out of your depth.

Or you're just a brilliant wind-up merchant. 

One or the other.

I'm not sure why you would need to follow American politics to have an opinion on the matter being discussed? Its the biggest event in our lifetime and has had wall to wall news coverage for the past 18 months.

Clearly you are the only one on here with all the facts to hand though so probably best not to debate with you.

 

[Archied]

27 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Jeez.

Biden never talked the vaccine down.

NEVER.

And if he did talk the vaccine down, which he didn't, and people listened to him, which they didn't because he didn't say it, then you'd have Democrats not getting vaccinated, not the Republican Trump supporters who currently make up the overwhelming majority. 

In 25 years of using message board I'm not sure that I have ever come across anybody so attached to a singular viewpoint and so utterly incapable of accepting facts.

Much of this thread is subjective and just people's opinions, but this isn't.

You're arguing on a topic that you clearly know very little about and I'm confused as to why.

Even though I loosely followed UK politics I rarely got involved in debates on here because I knew I didn't know enough.

I'm not sure you realise when you're out of your depth.

Or you're just a brilliant wind-up merchant. 

One or the other.

Pot kettle springs to mind?,,,,

[Bob The Badger]

31 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I'm not sure why you would need to follow American politics to have an opinion on the matter being discussed? Its the biggest event in our lifetime and has had wall to wall news coverage for the past 18 months.

Clearly you are the only one on here with all the facts to hand though so probably best not to debate with you.

 

I'll tell you why. 

Because Biden was on TV every day and I saw him and senior members of the DNC interviewed a great many times. 

He (nor they) never talked the vaccine down and if you think he or Democrats in general did it's because you didn't follow it closely. 

I don't have all the facts. Just a lot more than you do on this topic. 

[Archied]

1 hour ago, Bob The Badger said:

I'll tell you why. 

Because Biden was on TV every day and I saw him and senior members of the DNC interviewed a great many times. 

He (nor they) never talked the vaccine down and if you think he or Democrats in general did it's because you didn't follow it closely. 

I don't have all the facts. Just a lot more than you do on this topic. 

You have your interpretation of the facts and your bias and opinion , just like everyone else , if Biden was the sitting president and trump was the one trying to get in you can bet they would have been acting out the same roles in reverse ,politics is just a cess  pit 

[tinman]

This is fun

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

You have your interpretation of the facts and your bias and opinion , just like everyone else , if Biden was the sitting president and trump was the one trying to get in you can bet they would have been acting out the same roles in reverse ,politics is just a cess  pit 

You really don't understand how the left operate these days do you?!?!

[G STAR RAM]

6 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

And another fact is Trump has never told people to get vaccinated and millions of his supporters haven't done so directly because of that. 

Former President Donald Trump recommended Tuesday night that Americans get vaccinated for COVID-19, a potentially key endorsement as recent polling has shown some Republicans are expressing reluctance toward being inoculated.

In an interview Tuesday on Fox News, former President Donald Trump recommended Tuesday night that Americans get vaccinated for COVID-19

It’s the second time Trump has publicly endorsed the vaccines, but, unlike other political figures, he has not made a forceful push to promote the shots

“I would recommend it,” Trump said in a phone interview with Fox News. “And I would recommend it to a lot of people that don't want to get it, and a lot of those people voted for me, frankly.”

 

Just to show how easy it is to dress misinformation up as 'fact'.

 

[Gaspode]

10 hours ago, tinman said:

This is fun

Masochist….