Jourdan Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 Everyone wants stability, everyone wants continuity, but stability and continuity are privileges reserved for the right man for the job. Stability and continuity is not given, it’s earned. The trouble for Cocu is that he needs results. This division waits for no man, not even a well-intentioned and accomplished gentleman like Cocu. Under Pearson, we had six points and five defeats after nine games. He was hammered from pillar to post despite being English and a proven, tangible success at Championship level, so I don’t get this ‘disrespect to Cocu’ angle. Each and every manager we have had has been there to be shot at and would get criticism, derision and conversely love and appreciation, all when it was warranted. Can you honestly look at the next six games and see how Cocu escapes a similar or worse fate than Pearson? The timing of this run of games coming up seems almost terminal for Cocu’s prospects. Three relegated sides, two of which are strong candidates for automatic promotion, as well as Forest and Cardiff - two teams who were in the promotion picture last season and took four points off us last season without much fuss. I am looking at that Huddersfield game and thinking it will be critical to Cocu’s future. If we could grind out a win, it might give us the jumpstart we need, but outside of that, you have to wonder where the points are coming from. No-one cares that Cocu is Dutch. No-one cares that he is a Barcelona legend. No-one cares that he won titles with PSV. All we care about is having the right man for the job. The only way Cocu can dispel the doubters is by using his years of top level managerial experience and skills he has acquired and finding a way to get results. I am not even sure good performances in vain will save him now when it’s Rotherham and Wycombe keeping us company in the league table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 It’s the championship. I wouldn’t be surprised if we beat Norwich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 1 hour ago, RamNut said: It’s the championship. I wouldn’t be surprised if we beat Norwich. I think you are alone in thinking that. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantheram Posted September 29, 2020 Author Share Posted September 29, 2020 1 hour ago, RamNut said: It’s the championship. I wouldn’t be surprised if we beat Norwich. This isn’t some out of sorts team that can change it round randomly. It’s a team bereft of quality employing tactics that are utterly ridiculous. Unless Cocu realises this and assesses what his squad can do and how this might eventuate a win or two, we will continue to lose. The players know this and it shows, it’s stinks of a classic ‘lost the dressing room’ situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram1964 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 On 27/09/2020 at 03:20, dantheram said: Given the fact the writings on the wall, who do we want in next? Posts like this three games in ,with a depleted squad ,really make me wonder why some people bother supporting this club.Haven't the last 5 years of continual change in management proven anything. This is the first real transfer window Cocus had and even that was impressed with an embargo. Things may not be as good as we had expected but positive signings,introduction of academy players,dead wood departed from the squad,things will hopefully start going in the right direction. If you don't appreciate the manager and what he's had to deal with. Don't appreciate the squad and promising youth coming through. Questioning a competent experienced player manager who has had previous success after one season of nothing but sh%t to deal with.Perhaps your supporting and I use the term loosely ! The wrong club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram1964 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Just now, ram1964 said: Posts like this three games in ,with a depleted squad ,really make me wonder why some people bother supporting this club.Haven't the last 5 years of continual change in management proven anything. This is the first real transfer window Cocus had and even that was impeaded with an embargo. Things may not be as good as we had expected but positive signings,introduction of academy players,dead wood departed from the squad,things will hopefully start going in the right direction. If you don't appreciate the manager and what he's had to deal with. Don't appreciate the squad and promising youth coming through. Questioning a competent experienced player manager who has had previous success after one season of nothing but sh%t to deal with.Perhaps your supporting and I use the term loosely ! The wrong club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucksRam Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Interesting thread however I'm not ready to chuck in the towel yet. Yes it's been hugely disappointing but as I've said elsewhere change is coming. Lawrence, Waghorn and Holmes all due back. Ibe needs a few weeks to get fit then will play. Jozwiak is just settling in but is already showing signs of what he's about. Byrne still settling in but is a proven decent player. Same for Te Wierik. We have Duncan in the wings too. Liverpool mate of mine says he's class and could prove a gem. In the meantime we have to field several u23 players, who are all very talented but are all inexperienced at this level. If we're up the poo without a paddle come Christmas then ok, maybe we look at it. For now, as painful as it feels we need to give it time. Is it beer o'clock yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggyram59 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 I would give Cocu till January as stated let new players settle in, hopefully couple of more signings and an improvement in the way we play and some points, if we are still struggling come January then I think he should be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 28 minutes ago, ziggyram59 said: I would give Cocu till January as stated let new players settle in, hopefully couple of more signings and an improvement in the way we play and some points, if we are still struggling come January then I think he should be replaced. January probably still too soon but hopefully we'll be seeing plenty more from the lads by then anyway, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggyram59 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Really hope your right because we all want to see the team winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramfan1958 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 On 29/09/2020 at 14:44, Jourdan said: Everyone wants stability, everyone wants continuity, but stability and continuity are privileges reserved for the right man for the job. Stability and continuity is not given, it’s earned. The trouble for Cocu is that he needs results. This division waits for no man, not even a well-intentioned and accomplished gentleman like Cocu. Under Pearson, we had six points and five defeats after nine games. He was hammered from pillar to post despite being English and a proven, tangible success at Championship level, so I don’t get this ‘disrespect to Cocu’ angle. Each and every manager we have had has been there to be shot at and would get criticism, derision and conversely love and appreciation, all when it was warranted. Can you honestly look at the next six games and see how Cocu escapes a similar or worse fate than Pearson? The timing of this run of games coming up seems almost terminal for Cocu’s prospects. Three relegated sides, two of which are strong candidates for automatic promotion, as well as Forest and Cardiff - two teams who were in the promotion picture last season and took four points off us last season without much fuss. I am looking at that Huddersfield game and thinking it will be critical to Cocu’s future. If we could grind out a win, it might give us the jumpstart we need, but outside of that, you have to wonder where the points are coming from. No-one cares that Cocu is Dutch. No-one cares that he is a Barcelona legend. No-one cares that he won titles with PSV. All we care about is having the right man for the job. The only way Cocu can dispel the doubters is by using his years of top level managerial experience and skills he has acquired and finding a way to get results. I am not even sure good performances in vain will save him now when it’s Rotherham and Wycombe keeping us company in the league table. Great post 100% agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean (hick) Saunders Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 On 29/09/2020 at 19:45, Jourdan said: I think you are alone in thinking that. ? Doubt it. This is championship mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 As long as we don’t stay in the bottom 3 and performances are improving, as far as I am concerned, he gets a full season without having to deal with EFL inspired troubles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 haha people saying they don't care if Cocu is a legend for both club and country makes me lol......The man deserves all the plaudits his career deserved as a player and has played at the very top and won things at the very top. If anyone has ever been managed or been in a dressing room with a player who has played at a far higher level than you have personally achieved will know that that person gains respect for there achievements so it does matter as respect is important in a changing room especially if you are seen as a mentor like Cocu is to the youngsters he's trying to bring through regarding his tenure here as manager its clear that some fans don't really respect or rate him or both and although I do understand fans frustrations calling the man clown names is nothing short of disgraceful to be honest... I was going to start another thread to emphasise this but even if you are one of the Cocu out brigade, one thing is for sure.................................. This man conducts himself impeccably and with dignity and respect, has fantastic values as a person and as modern managers will state football is also about man management of players off of the pitch.( listen to Klopp,Pep,Mourinho etc ) Cocu appears to have dealt with the Joiners incident very well and has dismantled most from that group except Lawrence but he's basically shifted out those players without fuss Also we need signings, a striker, maybe a LB and maybe another midfielder and to be honest last season we needed players and ended up with last min loans in Dowell,Paterson,Hamer etc and I'm not quite sure Cocu had much choice in those players Now we have got rid of a bit of deadwood and some high earners and in-excusably sold our main striker before replacing him with anyone and due to injuries have ended up with a lot of holes in our team. Also its not guaranteed it seems that we are going to fill the striker void before the end of the window!! Imagine now the forum meltdown if we dont sign another player before the deadline!!! It would leave us woefully short until we get injuries back but I do know something......... Cocu WILL NOT throw his toys out of the pram, make sarcastic remarks or in any way show negativity or berate his employers ....( our club )..... and the lack of signings and pressure put on the manager to fill the gaps with academy players is there for all to see .He, IMO has made mistakes and is he is not devoid of questioning his tactics and team selection but the players have to take responsibilty too...if we make no more signings then is told to use the kids or here's number 8 on your list of players you want and oh by the way he will arrive in 3 weeks and will need 3 weeks to get fit Cocu will deal with it with the same assurance. He will conduct himself well and deal with it like he has on all of the crap thats been thrown his way since arriving and whether you like Cocu and want him IN or want him OUT no matter what, he DOES NOT deserve to be called clown or clown names and disrespected that I do know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 26 minutes ago, S8TY said: haha people saying they don't care if Cocu is a legend for both club and country makes me lol......The man deserves all the plaudits his career deserved as a player and has played at the very top and won things at the very top. If anyone has ever been managed or been in a dressing room with a player who has played at a far higher level than you have personally achieved will know that that person gains respect for there achievements so it does matter as respect is important in a changing room especially if you are seen as a mentor like Cocu is to the youngsters he's trying to bring through regarding his tenure here as manager its clear that some fans don't really respect or rate him or both and although I do understand fans frustrations calling the man clown names is nothing short of disgraceful to be honest... I was going to start another thread to emphasise this but even if you are one of the Cocu out brigade, one thing is for sure.................................. This man conducts himself impeccably and with dignity and respect, has fantastic values as a person and as modern managers will state football is also about man management of players off of the pitch.( listen to Klopp,Pep,Mourinho etc ) Cocu appears to have dealt with the Joiners incident very well and has dismantled most from that group except Lawrence but he's basically shifted out those players without fuss Also we need signings, a striker, maybe a LB and maybe another midfielder and to be honest last season we needed players and ended up with last min loans in Dowell,Paterson,Hamer etc and I'm not quite sure Cocu had much choice in those players Now we have got rid of a bit of deadwood and some high earners and in-excusably sold our main striker before replacing him with anyone and due to injuries have ended up with a lot of holes in our team. Also its not guaranteed it seems that we are going to fill the striker void before the end of the window!! Imagine now the forum meltdown if we dont sign another player before the deadline!!! It would leave us woefully short until we get injuries back but I do know something......... Cocu WILL NOT throw his toys out of the pram, make sarcastic remarks or in any way show negativity or berate his employers ....( our club )..... and the lack of signings and pressure put on the manager to fill the gaps with academy players is there for all to see .He, IMO has made mistakes and is he is not devoid of questioning his tactics and team selection but the players have to take responsibilty too...if we make no more signings then is told to use the kids or here's number 8 on your list of players you want and oh by the way he will arrive in 3 weeks and will need 3 weeks to get fit Cocu will deal with it with the same assurance. He will conduct himself well and deal with it like he has on all of the crap thats been thrown his way since arriving and whether you like Cocu and want him IN or want him OUT no matter what, he DOES NOT deserve to be called clown or clown names and disrespected that I do know I am standing to applaud ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 On 29/09/2020 at 14:44, Jourdan said: Stability and continuity is not given, it’s earned. i agree with your post 100%. I have posted in the 'Is winning everything' thread how daunting our next six fixtures are, we could end October with 0 pts. Obviously I really hope not, but its a possibility. I totally agree with your point that no one cares about previous reputations. Football is brutal - like boxing you are only as good as your last fight. I really hope it turns around and we go on a great winning streak. But like @RadioactiveWaste said I too am 'rattled.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 3 hours ago, S8TY said: haha people saying they don't care if Cocu is a legend for both club and country makes me lol......The man deserves all the plaudits his career deserved as a player and has played at the very top and won things at the very top. If anyone has ever been managed or been in a dressing room with a player who has played at a far higher level than you have personally achieved will know that that person gains respect for there achievements so it does matter as respect is important in a changing room especially if you are seen as a mentor like Cocu is to the youngsters he's trying to bring through regarding his tenure here as manager its clear that some fans don't really respect or rate him or both and although I do understand fans frustrations calling the man clown names is nothing short of disgraceful to be honest... I was going to start another thread to emphasise this but even if you are one of the Cocu out brigade, one thing is for sure.................................. This man conducts himself impeccably and with dignity and respect, has fantastic values as a person and as modern managers will state football is also about man management of players off of the pitch.( listen to Klopp,Pep,Mourinho etc ) Cocu appears to have dealt with the Joiners incident very well and has dismantled most from that group except Lawrence but he's basically shifted out those players without fuss Also we need signings, a striker, maybe a LB and maybe another midfielder and to be honest last season we needed players and ended up with last min loans in Dowell,Paterson,Hamer etc and I'm not quite sure Cocu had much choice in those players Now we have got rid of a bit of deadwood and some high earners and in-excusably sold our main striker before replacing him with anyone and due to injuries have ended up with a lot of holes in our team. Also its not guaranteed it seems that we are going to fill the striker void before the end of the window!! Imagine now the forum meltdown if we dont sign another player before the deadline!!! It would leave us woefully short until we get injuries back but I do know something......... Cocu WILL NOT throw his toys out of the pram, make sarcastic remarks or in any way show negativity or berate his employers ....( our club )..... and the lack of signings and pressure put on the manager to fill the gaps with academy players is there for all to see .He, IMO has made mistakes and is he is not devoid of questioning his tactics and team selection but the players have to take responsibilty too...if we make no more signings then is told to use the kids or here's number 8 on your list of players you want and oh by the way he will arrive in 3 weeks and will need 3 weeks to get fit Cocu will deal with it with the same assurance. He will conduct himself well and deal with it like he has on all of the crap thats been thrown his way since arriving and whether you like Cocu and want him IN or want him OUT no matter what, he DOES NOT deserve to be called clown or clown names and disrespected that I do know I agree with much I'd what you have said mate,very good but it doesn't change the fact that this is a totally results based game and if we are still in the bottom three with no points on the board,then eventually something will have to give and that's the reality of the matter. Let's hope we get the number one priority of a good target man number 9 in,because until that happens,I suspect we have lots more of this come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil62uk Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Cocu can only be judged on results / performances / wins / defeats / and the stats that go with it The fact we've only won 2 games in the last 11 competitive fixtures doesn't hold him in good stead ( with some fans ) not all . I personally think there is other criteria,s that are affecting our club at the moment that are not in the general domain . As he lost the dressing room ..? Are certain players in their own groups ...? As Mel had enough ...? Does Mel want to get further investment in ...? there could an abundance of reasons . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutoWindscreens Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 On 29/09/2020 at 19:45, Jourdan said: I think you are alone in thinking that. ? No, he's not! In fact, I was thinking of backing the Rams because, after all, "This Is The Championship", and I was expecting I would find a tasty price after this terrible start. But I was a little disappointed, after reading what a shambles we are, to see we are only 4/1 to win. That's big for Derby compared to most recent years, but not the price you would get for cataclysmic relegation fodder away to title favourites (you would have to triple the price). Even looking around this weekend, Palace are 7/1 away at Chelsea, Sheff Utd are 7/1 away at Wolves. Obviously the bookies have not been reading enough of the prophets of doom on here ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 21 hours ago, ram1964 said: Posts like this three games in ,with a depleted squad ,really make me wonder why some people bother supporting this club.Haven't the last 5 years of continual change in management proven anything. This is the first real transfer window Cocus had and even that was impressed with an embargo. Things may not be as good as we had expected but positive signings,introduction of academy players,dead wood departed from the squad,things will hopefully start going in the right direction. If you don't appreciate the manager and what he's had to deal with. Don't appreciate the squad and promising youth coming through. Questioning a competent experienced player manager who has had previous success after one season of nothing but sh%t to deal with.Perhaps your supporting and I use the term loosely ! The wrong club. Crass comments. There are people genuinely concerned about what they are seeing at the moment so much so that their comments are being posted on here. Posters ARE questioning a competent manager in using your phrase, you make this comment as though fans should not have the temerity to even dare post anything negatively about Cocu or he is somehow beyond criticism. No one is. If having an interest in the welfare of your club isn't then by your definition supporting them then you must use a totally different lexicon to mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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