New Manager

[Mostyn6]

Alan Irvine - currently beating Wolves. 
 

(one for those who remember ?)

[Barney1991]

The squad we have when injuries come back is a good squad but will cocu do his ti kering every match. Also people are saying get a hold up striker in and we shall be fine but what happens if he gets injured first game and sah out for 4 weeks  this hold up striker role a lot of people bang on about we needs this to be any good really puzzles me. 

Blackburn yesterday played with Armstrong who is marriott size and he bullied our centre halves running at pace the midfield playing balls to his strength running behind him etc. Leeds went up with Bamford who bielsea man managed and got the best out of him. He isn't a hold up striker really more of a okay all rounder. Sharp at Sheffield United although granted different system but still. Pukki at Norwich played the 9 same again as Blackburn he netted loads as the team played to his strengths and strengths the manager played to with the squad he had. This hold up number 9 isn't going to all of a sudden make us unbeatable or this is worrying that we will only ever do well with this type of striker. He will have to play every game never get injured and play 10 out of 10 every game. It won't happen. 

Forget the striker its further back that needs sorting. The 2 in midfield is unbalanced. Bird shinnie and rooney all to similar. No pace. First thought is to pass sideways or back. No box to box running although when shinnie did it the once vs Preston we score. Sorry to say love bird but he will get bullied by most teams unless he has protection. The first goal yesterday they were 5 vs 3 bird and rooney couldnt keep up. The 2 holding thing needs to go. We have the 2 then sibley is miles to far away from them. It needs a 433 with a knight and another runner in there. This worked best when we had Thorne hendrick and bryson or hughes. Thorne say then the other 2 took it in turns to bomb on with or without the ball. Or both would attack together. The winger situation when everyone fit looks fine. The cm is what needs sorting. This hasn't even got to be done with new players just using the current ones correctly. When fit I would play bielik then two numbers 6's of a knight and sibley or swap them with bird and Holmes or lawrence. Sibley for me is wasted too close to the striker give a more freedom role deeper and let him drop and go and run at defences. Picking up pockets. Left back is also a worry but can be sorted which I think it will be. 

Just don't get this hold up striker role as granted martin prime was just mouth watering but other teams have got out of this division by not needing one so why can't we. Its how the manager uses what we have and unfortunately I don't think cocu is using what we have to the best he can. We could get results with this team even with the injuries just don't be to easy to read as even most on this forum would know how the nullify this Derby team with his obvious tactics if you were the opposition manager. Just run at bird and rooney as at the moment for me bird is an easy target im sorry to say and rooney is about as fast as me running in the mud run 

Also just thought I'd say aswell I want cocu in till at least the end of this season. I think he will come good just wish we would go away from this 4231 unless the other one of the 2 starts to at least make runs now and again. But after what has happened since the start of last season we are even fortunate the guy hasn't walked because some would have 

[Dean Saunder’s hat trick]

17 hours ago, dantheram said:

Given the fact the writings on the wall, who do we want in next? 

We should absolutely not be even considering sacking Cocu after 3 games. Ludicrous if we do. If we’re bottom 3 after 15 games and still can’t buy a win, that’s a different matter. 

[FlyBritishMidland]

32 minutes ago, Andicis said:

And sometimes, you're just moving backwards. The forward bit is just you going on blind faith. There is no evidence we're slingshotting anywhere. It's not about ''want it now'', we've been in this poo league for years and years now, and now we're told to wait even longer whilst the football gets worse and we get overtaken by almost every newly promoted side. It's such low standards. 

But that’s my point and why I referenced Mr Clough.  We’re people them thinking it was “blind faith”?  And I think part of the reason we’re still here is the continual change - new manager, new coaching team, different playing styles, new players, etc.

I’m not saying there doesn’t come a point when you say enough’s enough but as well as all the off-field shenanigans I do think we should make allowance for transfers too.  I’ve said in another thread that I consider this his first proper transfer window.  Last summer he arrived late with little or no time to do anything and January’s a notoriously bad window and a sellers market as clubs panic buy chasing a dream or hoping for those 1 or 2 that can save them. We’ve certainly made mistakes in that window.  This is his first one to have a proper plan for and I think signs are good as the majority were saying last week.  Let’s let him finish the plan and get something like his first choice team on the pitch.

[DanS1992]

2 hours ago, sage said:

Guardiola.

They have just conceded a 4th at home, so he is certain to be sacked. 

That seems to be the rationale.

 

Guardiola has won pretty much everything to win, while playing some great football. We on the other hand scrape past Barrow, get thumped 4-0 at home and are so boring to watch that I would rather watch paint dry. Shocking comparison. Awful. 

[CornwallRam]

3 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said:

But bringing someone else in is no guarantee of better things...

The problem is that Derby County are a big club with a big budget for this division. We have a reasonable squad. OK, it might not be top ten - and almost certainly isn't without the new signings and the walking wounded, but it's not bottom two either. After three league games we've only scored one goal, have zero points, have deservedly lost all three games. We've also been outplayed by the smallest club in the entire Football League. Cocu is not just under-performing, he's performing abysmally.

I accept that it's too early to get rid of Cocu, but if we're still in this situation after three more league games, it will become necessary to do the thing which is most likely to avoid relegation, and that is change the manager. By his own admission, Mel has made us a Premier League size club. That will take some bank-rolling in League 1. Has Mel the will and the means to keep the wolves at bay if we do fall through the trap door? To wait until Christmas could put the whole existence of the club in jeopardy - although I'd assume that Mel wouldn't let that happen. 

[RoyMac5]

21 minutes ago, Dean Saunder’s hat trick said:

We should absolutely not be even considering sacking Cocu after 3 games. Ludicrous if we do. If we’re bottom 3 after 15 games and still can’t buy a win, that’s a different matter. 

Yeah, of course we will wait.

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Coolascustard said:

But that’s my point and why I referenced Mr Clough.  We’re people them thinking it was “blind faith”?  And I think part of the reason we’re still here is the continual change - new manager, new coaching team, different playing styles, new players, etc.

I’m not saying there doesn’t come a point when you say enough’s enough but as well as all the off-field shenanigans I do think we should make allowance for transfers too.  I’ve said in another thread that I consider this his first proper transfer window.  Last summer he arrived late with little or no time to do anything and January’s a notoriously bad window and a sellers market as clubs panic buy chasing a dream or hoping for those 1 or 2 that can save them. We’ve certainly made mistakes in that window.  This is his first one to have a proper plan for and I think signs are good as the majority were saying last week.  Let’s let him finish the plan and get something like his first choice team on the pitch.

It's not a good point. Football was different back then, that's not the way it works now. Yet, other clubs that continually change managers have got up, Watford are a prime example. If his plan isn't a good one, why let him enact it? A lot of the players that played yesterday were players he himself has signed. Being patient with the wrong man just means you're wasting time. 

[matty1986]

5 minutes ago, DanS1992 said:

Guardiola has won pretty much everything to win, while playing some great football. We on the other hand scrape past Barrow, get thumped 4-0 at home and are so boring to watch that I would rather watch paint dry. Shocking comparison. Awful. 

To be fair, I don't ever recall Guardiola beating Barrow.....so we've got that over him for a start.

[FlyBritishMidland]

3 minutes ago, Andicis said:

It's not a good point. Football was different back then, that's not the way it works now. Yet, other clubs that continually change managers have got up, Watford are a prime example. If his plan isn't a good one, why let him enact it? A lot of the players that played yesterday were players he himself has signed. Being patient with the wrong man just means you're wasting time. 

Granted, short term it worked.  4 managers last season didn’t work out quite so well.

[europia]

15 hours ago, RYRAM said:

Rooney? 

the man is bound to have his say on game will this undermine Phil and his approach to games. no more points in the next game or two maybe just maybe. 

Not sure he is a very good communicator or motivator. They are far more important attributes than having played a lot of games for  Manu & England. 

 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, europia said:

Not sure he is a very good communicator or motivator.

How do you know?

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Coolascustard said:

Granted, short term it worked.  4 managers last season didn’t work out quite so well.

So now they're down, with a big budget due to parachute payments and they'll bounce back within the next 2. 

[europia]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

How do you know?

I have seen / heard a lot of his interviews during his playing career and more recently as a coach. So to answer your question, that is how I have formulated my opinion. Don't expect everyone to agree, and not really fussed if they don't tbh ?

[S8TY]

1 hour ago, EraniosSocks said:

People comparing pep to Cocu. Jesus wept 

Both played for Barcelona and were influenced by Cruyff and his coaching methods is that enough 

[Barney1991]

Just had a thought to myself and if these results continue I can honestly see mel going before cocu. He must have had enough. He jumped in when just after Wembley when we were riding high im convinced he brought the club thinking we would be promotion guaranteed by the time clement came in. Crazy to think he's spent over 100 million and we even further away than we ever were.

[Parsnip]

I love new manager day more as much as anyone but I think we need to chill our Gola boots a bit and give the man a couple of weeks. Let him get some players fit, let him get a striker in, see where we are. 

Reconvene with pitchforks in mid Novemberish maybe?

[Rampage]

32 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

The problem is that Derby County are a big club with a big budget for this division. We have a reasonable squad. OK, it might not be top ten - and almost certainly isn't without the new signings and the walking wounded, but it's not bottom two either. After three league games we've only scored one goal, have zero points, have deservedly lost all three games. We've also been outplayed by the smallest club in the entire Football League. Cocu is not just under-performing, he's performing abysmally.

I accept that it's too early to get rid of Cocu, but if we're still in this situation after three more league games, it will become necessary to do the thing which is most likely to avoid relegation, and that is change the manager. By his own admission, Mel has made us a Premier League size club. That will take some bank-rolling in League 1. Has Mel the will and the means to keep the wolves at bay if we do fall through the trap door? To wait until Christmas could put the whole existence of the club in jeopardy - although I'd assume that Mel wouldn't let that happen. 

Being taken over by billionaire would have some advantages.

[Chris_Martin]

54 minutes ago, Dean Saunder’s hat trick said:

We should absolutely not be even considering sacking Cocu after 3 games. Ludicrous if we do. If we’re bottom 3 after 15 games and still can’t buy a win, that’s a different matter. 

Its not 3 games though, its one season and 5 games. Can you honestly say we play better now than his first game in charge? 

[Dean Saunder’s hat trick]

6 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

Its not 3 games though, its one season and 5 games. Can you honestly say we play better now than his first game in charge? 

Well, I think Cocu did really well last season. Came in having lost pretty much the 3 best players from the season before, Mount, Wilson and Tomori. Then landed with EFL charge. Then lost our captain for the season through stupid drink drive incident. The season disrupted through Covid. Sucked it all up and still in contention for a top 6 finish with a few games to go despite playing with 4 or 5 recent academy graduates in the first 11. 

Is that poor in your eyes? Did pretty well to keep us in the championship in my view, let alone only missing out on top 6 in last few games. 
 

As for this season, we’ve moved 5 or 6 players out, brought 5 or 6 in, still missing 3-4 first teamers through injury and haven finished our transfer business yet. 
Can you honestly expect us to play better now than his first game in charge based on that?