New Manager

[Chris_Martin]

3 minutes ago, Dean Saunder’s hat trick said:

Can you honestly expect us to play better now than his first game in charge based on that? 

yes.  otherwise what has he been working on for the last year?

[Dean Saunder’s hat trick]

14 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

yes.  otherwise what has he been working on for the last year?

Well, I imagine trying to cope with all of the other points I mentioned which you seem to have just ignored

[Rample]

Cocu's going nowhere, in no small part due to having 3 years left on his contract, but also because at present he is still at present being allowed a lot of freedom to build a team, and I'd expect 2 more signings by mid October and a 3 months before that is judged by the board.

If of course we have a run of 6-0 defeats over the next month or we are fighting relegation come January and Mel's hand is forced then Rooney is nailed on. After paying around £4m (educated guess) to get rid of Cocu and his team, I can't see us paying another £2.5m to shift Rooney aswell.

Managers such as Howe, Hughton or whoever may be able to do better with this squad but we have already made our bed...

I can't see a budget left back and striker plus a couple of players returning to fitness improving us vastly, but that's the hope we're left with. We all seem to be proclaiming Bielik to be some magical talisman but I don't remember him being a £10m class world-beater even pre-injury.

I think what has riled me today is Cocu's nonsense about Clarke needing to adapt to his style. For one this player played 40 odd games under him last season and was arguably our best player, and two. maybe its indicative of the problem, if people can't grasp your style 12 months on maybe its time to change philosophy, I can just see us losing the opening matches of next season and him complaining all this summers signings still aren't fluent with his style of football.

Humph!

[May Contain Nuts]

35 minutes ago, Rample said:

We all seem to be proclaiming Bielik to be some magical talisman but I don't remember him being a £10m class world-beater even pre-injury

 

Started pretty well when he had more of a team around him, but once the Joinersgate stuff happened and his teammates started dropping like flies he was basically tasked with holding the entire midfield together, while making a step up a league, and carrying the weight on the transfer fee on his shoulders.

I don't think anyone is expecting him to do it all on his own coming back from an ACL injury, but he's a big miss and the simple fact though is that he offered something nobody else in the squad was, or is capable of.

Watch that. He's a good link between defence and attack who makes the transition from defending to playing positive forward balls before the opposition have regrouped and marked our frwards.

[dantheram]

3 hours ago, Dean Saunder’s hat trick said:

We should absolutely not be even considering sacking Cocu after 3 games. Ludicrous if we do. If we’re bottom 3 after 15 games and still can’t buy a win, that’s a different matter. 

It’s not 3 games though is it. His methods don’t work and he won’t change. I believe in keeping managers longer than 5 minutes, as do most people, but this isn’t going to end well. 
 

It’s not simply a case of waiting for players to come back, he doesn’t get anything out of the ones he has, so what’s going to change? Almost everyone who leaves this club ends up better off, that is a massive massive red flag. 

[S8TY]

1 hour ago, dantheram said:

It’s not 3 games though is it. His methods don’t work and he won’t change. I believe in keeping managers longer than 5 minutes, as do most people, but this isn’t going to end well. 
 

It’s not simply a case of waiting for players to come back, he doesn’t get anything out of the ones he has, so what’s going to change? Almost everyone who leaves this club ends up better off, that is a massive massive red flag. 

Like who?

[Mostyn6]

2 hours ago, S8TY said:

Like who?

Anyone playing or managing in this division is currently better off:-

Martin, Bennett, Johnson, Paterson, Rowett, Malone, Nugent, Dowell, Hamer etc.......

[NottsRam77]

7 hours ago, Coconut said:

 

Started pretty well when he had more of a team around him, but once the Joinersgate stuff happened and his teammates started dropping like flies he was basically tasked with holding the entire midfield together, while making a step up a league, and carrying the weight on the transfer fee on his shoulders.

I don't think anyone is expecting him to do it all on his own coming back from an ACL injury, but he's a big miss and the simple fact though is that he offered something nobody else in the squad was, or is capable of.

Watch that. He's a good link between defence and attack who makes the transition from defending to playing positive forward balls before the opposition have regrouped and marked our frwards.

With the utmost of respect buddy I think you’ve  Succumbed To the infamous thing of when a players out people think they’re actually better than they are syndrome 

bielik got hooked off twice at half time once before he was sent off and secondly Cos he was playing so badly 

he then got himself sent off for that wild reckless challenge the following game  

he looked every bit slow And off the pace Of the game when in midfield and at the back was prone to a rash needless foul 

I do think he’d improve what we have in there atm as I think were literally carrying rooney right now but he ain’t going to suddenly be that player that transforms us 

[ziggyram59]

I would see how we do in our next 6 fixtures in October, Norwich(A), Watford(H), Huddersfield(A), Nottingham Forest(A), Cardiff(H), and Bournemouth(A) if we lose all them then Cocu needs to go. I would love to see someone like Hughton given a chance or a long shot like Martin O'Neill. 

[EraniosSocks]

22 minutes ago, ziggyram59 said:

I would see how we do in our next 6 fixtures in October, Norwich(A), Watford(H), Huddersfield(A), Nottingham Forest(A), Cardiff(H), and Bournemouth(A) if we lose all them then Cocu needs to go. I would love to see someone like Hughton given a chance or a long shot like Martin O'Neill. 

For a first post mate mentioning Martin O’Neil is not the place to go ?

[ziggyram59]

He can't do any worse than Cocu is doing. The rate were going we're heading for League 1 without a doubt. This season reminds me of the season Sunderland went down, and really think unless Cocu goes things are only going to get worse. 

[S8TY]

4 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

Anyone playing or managing in this division is currently better off:-

Martin, Bennett, Johnson, Paterson, Rowett, Malone, Nugent, Dowell, Hamer etc.......

Yeah course they are 

[Mostyn6]

8 minutes ago, S8TY said:

Yeah course they are 

Show me a league table 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

17 hours ago, reverendo de duivel said:

Unfortunately, as soon as a next manager thread is posted, it means the incumbent is on borrowed time.

I really want to believe in Cocu, and his long term plan, but to believe there needs to be some signs of progress, beyond simply packing the team with academy graduates.

Regardless of results, I'd give him until January to elicit such an improvement, his reputation and his actions so far deserve that, but if we're still showing the same weaknesses as we are currently come the end of the year I can't see him surviving.

By then, there really will be no excuses.

I think this is very much fair.

[RoyMac5]

21 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I think this is very much fair.

Perhaps. Although if we get next to nothing from the October games then Halloween might be a fright night?! ?

[S8TY]

19 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Show me a league table 

It’s an opinion so you’re saying all of those players are better off ...it’s opinion and I don’t agree ...I wouldn’t have any of them back ...the only player we miss is Martin out of that list and because they’re currently higher in table you’re saying they’re better off ...time will tell but I’d rather be at Derby than a poohouse club like Millwall for example like Malone and Bennett ...

[RoyMac5]

15 hours ago, sage said:

Guardiola.

They have just conceded a 4th at home, so he is certain to be sacked. 

That seems to be the rationale.

 

?

Quote

BBC: 'You have to wonder if Pep's style of play is outdated' - what you said

Mike from Viney Hill: As a Manchester City fan, you do have to wonder if Pep's style of play is outdated. His unwillingness to compromise is comparable to [former Arsenal manager Arsene] Wenger. With the teams playing fast, counter-attacking football these days we are always vulnerable and won't win much of we don't change.

Paul: This is Pep being found out. He spent so much more than any other club and everyone said: 'Isn't he wonderful?' Now FFP scrutiny ramped up and suddenly he is not all that great?

David from Leicester: Let's not have too much bleating from the billionaire club. We were missing the injured [Ricardo] Pereria and [Wilfred] Ndidi, two of our most influential players. We were also playing with an 80% fit Jonny Evans and Maddison who was not fit even.

[cheron85]

11 hours ago, Rample said:

Cocu's going nowhere, in no small part due to having 3 years left on his contract, but also because at present he is still at present being allowed a lot of freedom to build a team, and I'd expect 2 more signings by mid October and a 3 months before that is judged by the board.

I've been a Cocu apologist for a while now - I like the  way he wants to play and think it suits the football philosophy we have at Derby (get ball, keep ball, attack) and his PSV team scored hatfuls of goals - I also think the last year has been one nightmare after another for him and the side

That said - I give it 10 league games and if no positive signs by then he'll have to go

9 hours ago, dantheram said:

It’s not 3 games though is it. His methods don’t work and he won’t change. I believe in keeping managers longer than 5 minutes, as do most people, but this isn’t going to end well. 

I'm not sure where you get this from - It's not been working but for different reasons every game!

The first couple of games the defence looked shaky and our attack looked blunt

Against Luton our defence made a couple of absolute howlers

Against Blackburn the deep-lying midfielders provided zero cover, didn't tackle and (let's be honest) didn't look interested in tracking back 

I'm not sure it's one problem - I think it's been different problems each time but comes down to attitude - I don't personally think you should have to motivate professional people to do their job - Especially if it's doing something they love - But apparently these players need it

2 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

he looked every bit slow And off the pace Of the game when in midfield and at the back was prone to a rash needless foul 

I do think he’d improve what we have in there atm as I think were literally carrying rooney right now but he ain’t going to suddenly be that player that transforms us 

I don't think we've ever seen a fully fit Bielik yet so a bit early to judge

I agree that we're carrying Rooney though - Think we should give it a go without him in there and see how that works

[RamNut]

6 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Against Blackburn the deep-lying midfielders provided zero cover, didn't tackle and (let's be honest) didn't look interested in tracking back 

For the first goal, Bird makes up a lot of ground. But it’s hard to run faster than the ball.

[Mostyn6]

36 minutes ago, S8TY said:

It’s an opinion so you’re saying all of those players are better off ...it’s opinion and I don’t agree ...I wouldn’t have any of them back ...the only player we miss is Martin out of that list and because they’re currently higher in table you’re saying they’re better off ...time will tell but I’d rather be at Derby than a poohouse club like Millwall for example like Malone and Bennett ...

Nobody said anything about missed players. The comment picked on was players leaving being “better off”.