New Manager

[Andicis]

21 hours ago, ram1964 said:

Posts like this three games in ,with a depleted squad ,really make me wonder why some people bother supporting this club.Haven't the last 5 years  of continual change in management proven anything. This is the first real transfer window Cocus had and even that was impressed with an embargo. Things may not be as good as we had expected but positive signings,introduction of academy players,dead wood departed from the squad,things will hopefully start going in the right direction.

If you don't appreciate the manager and what he's had to deal with. Don't appreciate the squad and promising youth coming through. Questioning a competent experienced player manager who has had previous success after one season of nothing but sh%t to deal with.Perhaps your supporting and I use the term loosely ! The wrong club.

Cocu on injuries and new players in the squad: “I don’t like excuses. I can’t accept the performance in the last game.”

Even Cocu himself doesn't agree with your excuses. And then you finish up with the classic, and as pathetic as ever, ''how dare you criticise anything about the club, you're not a real fan go support someone else''. Nope, I'm a Derby fan who just wants to win games of football and not hear constant reasons why we can't. I don't hear Luton or Wycombe making excuses, nor should we be. 

[Jourdan]

5 hours ago, S8TY said:

...

At the end of the day, what is important to us how he performs as manager of Derby County. Anything else is irrelevant.

Just because you’ve had success in your playing career or earlier in your management career, it brings no guarantees when you step into a new, drastically different job. That’s the point.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say Cocu can’t dine out on past achievements - he has to keep proving himself and silencing the doubters.

Cocu is not a Mourinho, Guardiola or Klopp, or a Messi or a Ronaldo - a transcendent figure of the game - so I am really not sure this group of players would be particularly moved by his past achievements. 

What they will respond to is coaching and man management that brings out the best in them. So far, there is only a little evidence of that happening.

I think if we asked Mourinho about Cocu and this Derby team, he would make the same comments about the Spurs team he inherited. They are too nice, and being nice often doesn’t win you football matches.

No-one is disputing that Cocu is nice, pleasant, dignified, respectful and conducts himself well. But at the end of the day, it’s not a personality contest. It’s football management.

We want him to inspire his players, lift his players, organise his players, and win football matches. Sometimes that requires a bit of edge, a bit of arrogance, a bit of a nasty streak.

You could argue that Cocu perhaps needs to adapt to get what he wants out of the players and key people at the club. 

Is Mel going the extra mile for Cocu? Are the players? It doesn’t seem like it and that should be a concern for everyone.

[Curtains]

7 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

At the end of the day, what is important to us how he performs as manager of Derby County. Anything else is irrelevant.

Just because you’ve had success in your playing career or earlier in your management career, it brings no guarantees when you step into a new, drastically different job. That’s the point.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say Cocu can’t dine out on past achievements - he has to keep proving himself and silencing the doubters.

Cocu is not a Mourinho, Guardiola or Klopp, or a Messi or a Ronaldo - a transcendent figure of the game - so I am really not sure this group of players would be particularly moved by his past achievements. 

What they will respond to is coaching and man management that brings out the best in them. So far, there is only a little evidence of that happening.

I think if we asked Mourinho about Cocu and this Derby team, he would make the same comments about the Spurs team he inherited. They are too nice, and being nice often doesn’t win you football matches.

No-one is disputing that Cocu is nice, pleasant, dignified, respectful and conducts himself well. But at the end of the day, it’s not a personality contest. It’s football management.

We want him to inspire his players, lift his players, organise his players, and win football matches. Sometimes that requires a bit of edge, a bit of arrogance, a bit of a nasty streak.

You could argue that Cocu perhaps needs to adapt to get what he wants out of the players and key people at the club. 

Is Mel going the extra mile for Cocu? Are the players? It doesn’t seem like it and that should be a concern for everyone.

Mate you are over pessimistic. Give the guy a chance.  What’s to lose. 

[S8TY]

3 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I agree with much I'd what you have said mate,very good but it doesn't change the fact that this is a totally results based game and if we are still in the bottom three with no points on the board,then eventually something will have to give and that's the reality of the matter.

Let's hope we get the number one priority of a good target man number 9 in,because until that happens,I suspect we have lots more of this come.

 

Thanks Kash everyone is entitled to there opinion mate of course but calling the man a clown and clown names etc is disrespectful to a gent of the game, I remember working in Newcastle and fans there would never mention Sir Bobby Robson with  anything other than respect   even when team was going through tough time they realised they had a great gentleman of the game at the helm....criticise his footy and tactics if thats how you feel but all I'm saying lets not call the man names eh....he doesn't deserve that 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

4 minutes ago, S8TY said:

Thanks Kash everyone is entitled to there opinion mate of course but calling the man a clown and clown names etc is disrespectful to a gent of the game, I remember working in Newcastle and fans there would never mention Sir Bobby Robson with  anything other than respect   even when team was going through tough time they realised they had a great gentleman of the game at the helm....criticise his footy and tactics if thats how you feel but all I'm saying lets not call the man names eh....he doesn't deserve that 

I've never liked it and every England manager including our own Mac has been subjected to it by the tabloids.

 

[S8TY]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

At the end of the day, what is important to us how he performs as manager of Derby County. Anything else is irrelevant.

Just because you’ve had success in your playing career or earlier in your management career, it brings no guarantees when you step into a new, drastically different job. That’s the point.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say Cocu can’t dine out on past achievements - he has to keep proving himself and silencing the doubters.

Cocu is not a Mourinho, Guardiola or Klopp, or a Messi or a Ronaldo - a transcendent figure of the game - so I am really not sure this group of players would be particularly moved by his past achievements. 

What they will respond to is coaching and man management that brings out the best in them. So far, there is only a little evidence of that happening.

I think if we asked Mourinho about Cocu and this Derby team, he would make the same comments about the Spurs team he inherited. They are too nice, and being nice often doesn’t win you football matches.

No-one is disputing that Cocu is nice, pleasant, dignified, respectful and conducts himself well. But at the end of the day, it’s not a personality contest. It’s football management.

We want him to inspire his players, lift his players, organise his players, and win football matches. Sometimes that requires a bit of edge, a bit of arrogance, a bit of a nasty streak.

You could argue that Cocu perhaps needs to adapt to get what he wants out of the players and key people at the club. 

Is Mel going the extra mile for Cocu? Are the players? It doesn’t seem like it and that should be a concern for everyone.

Read my post!! All i said was cut out the pathetic name calling ( not saying you ) it shows people up for who they are....I don't agree with your post but thats my opinion....of course everyone is judged on the here and now but you know nothing about inspiration you just think what you want to think...ask Knight,Sibley,Bird,Buchanan etc in years to come when/if they are still playing at a good level whether Cocu helped/inspired/aided there development and my comparisons with those managers was relevant to how man management outside the game is now prevalent to the snowflake society we appear to live in.....No one is saying don't have your say etc thats what a forum is all about but he doesn't need an arrogance or swagger as to be a good coach/manager etc....I don't always like managers who are ranting and raving...the best teams and players sort problems out themselves and don't need instructions from the bench....players not running closing down is the fundamental basics that any player in a Derby County shirt should be doing...that is duck all to do with tactics or inspiration...if you need inspiring to go onto a pitch and play football for DCFC i suggest you're not right for our team

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

6 minutes ago, S8TY said:

Read my post!! All i said was cut out the pathetic name calling ( not saying you ) it shows people up for who they are....I don't agree with your post but thats my opinion....of course everyone is judged on the here and now but you know nothing about inspiration you just think what you want to think...ask Knight,Sibley,Bird,Buchanan etc in years to come when/if they are still playing at a good level whether Cocu helped/inspired/aided there development and my comparisons with those managers was relevant to how man management outside the game is now prevalent to the snowflake society we appear to live in.....No one is saying don't have your say etc thats what a forum is all about but he doesn't need an arrogance or swagger as to be a good coach/manager etc....I don't always like managers who are ranting and raving...the best teams and players sort problems out themselves and don't need instructions from the bench....players not running closing down is the fundamental basics that any player in a Derby County shirt should be doing...that is duck all to do with tactics or inspiration...if you need inspiring to go onto a pitch and play football for DCFC i suggest you're not right for our team

I do think players need inspiring on the pitch unfortunately mate,in every job a manager can be the difference between enjoying your job and not...and if you don't enjoy your job,you generally dont do it so well.

(Not saying that Cocu doesn't do it,I'm just saying that motivating your team is vital and important)

[Anag Ram]

I came onto the thread hoping to apply for the role of leading a popular clothing company and found to my horror this was all about football! ?

[ThePrisoner]

1 minute ago, Anag Ram said:

I came onto the thread hoping to apply for the role of leading a popular clothing company and found to my horror this was all about football! ?

You've made a catalogue of errors there

[S8TY]

3 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I do think players need inspiring on the pitch unfortunately mate,in every job a manager can be the difference between enjoying your job and not...and if you don't enjoy your job,you generally dont do it so well.

(Not saying that Cocu doesn't do it,I'm just saying that motivating your team is vital and important)

Fair enough mate we'll have to agree to disagree, it depends  on how you look at inspiration...i think the younger players may not use the word inspiration but have still been influenced by Cocu to be able to develop and be good enough and be given the chances to play in the first team....some managers always looked at buying rather than developing players, in time the younger players may see the value  they may not but players like Rooney? How can you inspire him ?? virtually impossible to even try i would say...it has to come from within and he can directly inspire others by his attitude,application in training and on the pitch etc

 

[Tyler Durden]

Totally agree that name calling totally detracts from any valid points that you may have in your argument and also allows other posters to then jump onto your behaviour thereby taking the focus away from any reasonable points you are trying to make.

Just as a last observation being professional in any job should be a standard prerequisite minimum especially if you're in a leadership or managerial position - lead by example, live the company values so others follow you and so on.

It definitely shouldn't be used as a plaudit  or accolade neither should it be viewed as measure of competency in your role - I've worked for huge multinational companies and observed senior managers, whom have been professional to a tee, been exited from the business to their performance in their role. If they also didn't behave professionally then this would be seen as a conduct issue leading to the disciplinary process. 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

52 minutes ago, S8TY said:

Fair enough mate we'll have to agree to disagree, it depends  on how you look at inspiration...i think the younger players may not use the word inspiration but have still been influenced by Cocu to be able to develop and be good enough and be given the chances to play in the first team....some managers always looked at buying rather than developing players, in time the younger players may see the value  they may not but players like Rooney? How can you inspire him ?? virtually impossible to even try i would say...it has to come from within and he can directly inspire others by his attitude,application in training and on the pitch etc

 

good points but it needs to be a combination of both...a manager who inspires the troops and encourages the them to work hard and play well and the team taking that on board and carrying out the instructions...and dont forget that even loyal and hard working players need to believe in the manager and the instructions or they can become despondent and lacklustre.

its a two way street. 

[S8TY]

15 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

good points but it needs to be a combination of both...a manager who inspires the troops and encourages the them to work hard and play well and the team taking that on board and carrying out the instructions...and dont forget that even loyal and hard working players need to believe in the manager and the instructions or they can become despondent and lacklustre.

its a two way street. 

It is and when you read Clough's autobiography the mix of Clough and Taylor worked so well for them although maybe dated management it still proved succesful at the time.

Clough had a poor start to his managerial tenure and I've always thought he was better with Taylor beside him and there was definitely a good cop bad cop philosophy to there man management and am not sure everyone liked Clough but they respected him and that was not all due to his managerial experience as he had a bad time at Hartlepool prior to coming to us and didn't start well here either

[Chris_Martin]

Carlo Ancelotti said in recent press conference ' you have to judge a manager by 2 things. Results and team identity'

Doesn't bode well for Cocu.   

[europia]

1 hour ago, Chris_Martin said:

Carlo Ancelotti said in recent press conference ' you have to judge a manager by 2 things. Results and team identity'

Doesn't bode well for Cocu.   

Cocu has encountered unprecedented problems since becoming manager of DCFC. Hopefully that doesn't define his time at the club overall. I still feel a mid table finish can be achieved this season, but we need to start performing. 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 hour ago, Chris_Martin said:

Carlo Ancelotti said in recent press conference ' you have to judge a manager by 2 things. Results and team identity'

Doesn't bode well for Cocu.   

He's right isn't he.

Hopefully Cocu can achieve both soon but he needs to crack on...

[LeedsCityRam]

7 hours ago, Jourdan said:

At the end of the day, what is important to us how he performs as manager of Derby County. Anything else is irrelevant.

Just because you’ve had success in your playing career or earlier in your management career, it brings no guarantees when you step into a new, drastically different job. That’s the point.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say Cocu can’t dine out on past achievements - he has to keep proving himself and silencing the doubters.

Cocu is not a Mourinho, Guardiola or Klopp, or a Messi or a Ronaldo - a transcendent figure of the game - so I am really not sure this group of players would be particularly moved by his past achievements. 

I pretty much disagree with every bit of your entire post but this bit is particularly mystifying. The guy won 100 caps for Holland & played for Barcelona...his profile is easily the equal of Lampard, who instantly had respect from the players & near hysteria from the fans when he was appointed (and left).

He's also had more previous success as a manager than any other manager we have ever appointed.

You also say he can't motivate players but I would recommend you recall what state the team was in last December before he turned it around. Remember you posting that we were in a relegation battle at Christmas, by early July we were a win off the top 6 with 4/5 games to play.

The evidence is there if you choose to see it. 

[Finch]

Just a thought - win ratios:

BC 46.71%

Mac 1 54.26%

Mac 2 44.83 % allowed 29 games

PC 35.09 % 59 games to date.

 

[LeedsCityRam]

Just now, Finch said:

Just a thought - win ratios:

BC 46.71%

Mac 1 54.26%

Mac 2 44.83 % allowed 29 games

PC 35.09 % 59 games to date.

 

A few more to add to that;

Jim Smith 35%

Roy McFarland 43%

Billy Davies 45%

Paul Clement 42%

Arthur Cox 40%

Win ratios are very misleading without context. Kind of sums up this entire debate really

[Tyler Durden]

2 hours ago, europia said:

Cocu has encountered unprecedented problems since becoming manager of DCFC. Hopefully that doesn't define his time at the club overall. I still feel a mid table finish can be achieved this season, but we need to start performing. 

Mid table finish achieved? Interesting choice of words. I would never classify mid table as an achievement unless due to the start to the season Cocu has overseen we are now setting the bar so low.