EFL appeal

[Yani P]

 

The decision to deduct points next season for an historical breach of profitability and sustainability rules was reached by the independent panel, whereas Wigan's point deduction was triggered by league rules relating to insolvency events

[duncanjwitham]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Is this a fact? I am pretty sure I read that player values were amortised down to zero at the start of the final year of the contract.

My understanding was that they went down to zero over the duration of the final year, and didn’t hit zero until they actually left the club.  So as long as they signed a contract extension at some point in that year, some of the amortisation would be shunted over. We don’t know for sure at what point they actually signed those deals - they were announced at the end of the season, but it could have been at any time.

[Mihangel]

8 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I am saying that is complete and utter guesswork

Yep, that's Maguire...

[Spanish]

10 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

So in summary ??

they didn’t sign it off ?

I thought the club said they had written evidence or something  

If that was the case surely we would have made a big thing about it at the tribunal

[Spanish]

4 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

My understanding was that they went down to zero over the duration of the final year, and didn’t hit zero until they actually left the club.  So as long as they signed a contract extension at some point in that year, some of the amortisation would be shunted over. We don’t know for sure at what point they actually signed those deals - they were announced at the end of the season, but it could have been at any time.

Example BJ

[Rev]

8 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

this a fact? I am pretty sure I read that player values were amortised down to zero at the start of the final year of the contract.

If that was the case, what reason do you think Butterfield and Johnson both signed extensions, only to leave weeks later?

I can't think of any other reason, even with straight line amortisation players have a value at the start of their final year, why would our different approach result in a book value of zero with a year to go?

That would seem slightly absurd, but I'd be interested to read your thoughts.

[G STAR RAM]

5 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

My understanding was that they went down to zero over the duration of the final year, and didn’t hit zero until they actually left the club.  So as long as they signed a contract extension at some point in that year, some of the amortisation would be shunted over. We don’t know for sure at what point they actually signed those deals - they were announced at the end of the season, but it could have been at any time.

You could be right, sure @Ghost of Cloughwill know the answer to this one.

[NottsRam77]

9 minutes ago, Spanish said:

If that was the case surely we would have made a big thing about it at the tribunal

I thought they did 

Edited May 10, 2021 by NottsRam77

[G STAR RAM]

Just now, Rev said:

If that was the case, what reason do you think Butterfield and Johnson both signed extensions, only to leave weeks later?

I can't think of any other reason, even with straight line amortisation players have a value at the start of their final year, why would our different approach result in a book value of zero with a year to go?

That would seem slightly absurd, but I'd be interested to read your thoughts.

I said at the time that this was the only logical reason for it and that I would certainly view that as bending the rules, but then I thought I had read they were amortised down to £0 at the beginning of the last year of the contract.

Any competent auditor would insist they were written down to zero though because they played no further part and I would assume left for less than any potential residual value at the end of their contract. 

[CornwallRam]

I think our biggest threat is that a points deduction for next season could easily trigger legal action by Wycombe and Shef Wed. Wycombe as the obvious victim and Wednesday from the 'unfairness' of our transgression being punished later than theirs. 

That could seriously affect the beginning of next season, maybe even forcing a delay.

If they apply it to last season, the only aggrieved club is us, and we can't appeal and might not be able to afford to make a legal challenge. That's a far better option for the EFL.

I wonder if the delay is them trying to find an interpretation of the rules which applies the points deduction to last season?

[DavesaRam]

9 hours ago, Jase116 said:

Surely we would be able to appeal if the decision went against us this time? If so this could drag on for a few more months yet.

I hsve just had a conversation with someone in a DCFC Facebook group and apparently the EFL have a rule that there us no right of appeal for us. So the EFL can appeal anything they want, probably whenever they want, and they are untouchable.

 

 

[FlyBritishMidland]

Not sure if it’s relevant but I found this from the Sheffield Wednesday case. This states that it’s unfair on the club to apply a deduction in the current season when it is late or has just finished.  Surely the same logic applies in our case IF the decision is a points deduction.

Earlier in the decision it also states that any points deduction would be applied to the season following the breach.  In Wednesdays case that was 18/19 and they wouldn’t have gone down.  In our case as the last season in the case of a breach of P&S was 18/19 then a points deduction would have applied last season.  We were 16 points clear of the bottom 3 so it’s extremely unlikely the penalty would have relegated us.

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by FlyBritishMidland

[G STAR RAM]

Seriously where is all this talk of a points deduction come from?

Isnt the only thing being levelled at the club that they did not use the correct wording to explain the accounting policy used for amortisation?

[Rev]

7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I said at the time that this was the only logical reason for it and that I would certainly view that as bending the rules, but then I thought I had read they were amortised down to £0 at the beginning of the last year of the contract.

Any competent auditor would insist they were written down to zero though because they played no further part and I would assume left for less than any potential residual value at the end of their contract. 

I suppose if we were honestly calculating the amount, as we said we were, then Anya for example would enter the final year with a value of zero, whereas Johnson as an active player would hold some value.

Personally, I think the EFL should have taken defeat on the chin, then made it a condition of membership that clubs would use the straight line method as soon as practicable, say 4 years.

 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Seriously where is all this talk of a points deduction come from?

Isnt the only thing being levelled at the club that they did not use the correct wording to explain the accounting policy used for amortisation?

Exactly. It is totally outrageous! 

[duncanjwitham]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

Seriously where is all this talk of a points deduction come from?

Isnt the only thing being levelled at the club that they did not use the correct wording to explain the accounting policy used for amortisation?

The problem is we don’t know exactly what the EFL appealed against, and what (if anything) we’ve been found guilty of. They could appeal the punishment we got, and we just get a bigger fine. They could appeal the use of ERVs and we have to recalculate or P&S submissions for the last 5 years and potentially fail any of those years, meaning points deductions etc.

[Reggie Greenwood]

7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Seriously where is all this talk of a points deduction come from?

Isnt the only thing being levelled at the club that they did not use the correct wording to explain the accounting policy used for amortisation?

Started by Nixon nonsense and Edinwum 

[CornwallRam]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

Seriously where is all this talk of a points deduction come from?

Isnt the only thing being levelled at the club that they did not use the correct wording to explain the accounting policy used for amortisation?

No.

They appealed the whole of charge 2. Most outlets are reporting that the EFL have won the appeal.  They will punish us for trying to circumvent the rules and potentially failing P&S. That punishment has yet to be decided, but could include a points deduction.

I've a feeling that this isn't going to be settled for a couple of months yet, which will be like having an extra punishment. 

[Abu Derby]

Presumably we are still under a transfer embargo until this mess is concluded. With several out of contract players leaving, we wouldn’t have a squad good enough to compete never mind make up a points deficit. 

[Reggie Greenwood]

1 minute ago, Abu Derby said:

Presumably we are still under a transfer embargo until this mess is concluded. With several out of contract players leaving, we wouldn’t have a squad good enough to compete never mind make up a points deficit. 

Think you can still sign out of contract players under a certain wage limit ??