Alph Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Probably would get Derby promoted with a few quid spent and a bunch of journeymen. Then it would be a 16th place finish for 2 seasons. Then Moyes to take over. Then relegation in 2026. He's reliable like bread and butter. Every day. Every single day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean (hick) Saunders Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/what-sam-allardyce-say-wayne-3183983 Well he likes at least one of our players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 2 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Taking on Sam would be reverting to Pearson or rowett again,completely destroying our style of play and our fantastic academy in favour of a form of long kick,hoof it football again. We need someone who can actually adapt and progress our footballing into the type we played back in 2014/15 where possession is effective and leads to attacking stylish football thats a joy to watch and drags us out of the mire without forgetting our principles. that way our players can adapt rather than starting at the beginning again as we have seen so unsuccessfully before. the only one who has been actively following is and observing what we are doing appears to be Mac and he's the only one who could hit the ground running.....he's proven it can be done with us before. Give him this season and if it works out,offer him another....while we are at it and if we are now flush,let's buy simmo out his bristol city contract too! Would you take 34 wins by 1-0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 33 minutes ago, Alpha said: If we appoint Allardyce then all the stuff about building a philosophy and the youth etc would be shat on again, no? 'I've got a plan' 'What's the plan 'To keep changing the plan!' I'm sure he'll be cheap. ? 2 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Taking on Sam would be reverting to Pearson or rowett again,completely destroying our style of play and our fantastic academy in favour of a form of long kick,hoof it football again. We need someone who can actually adapt and progress our footballing into the type we played back in 2014/15 where possession is effective and leads to attacking stylish football thats a joy to watch and drags us out of the mire without forgetting our principles. that way our players can adapt rather than starting at the beginning again as we have seen so unsuccessfully before. the only one who has been actively following is and observing what we are doing appears to be Mac and he's the only one who could hit the ground running.....he's proven it can be done with us before. Give him this season and if it works out,offer him another....while we are at it and if we are now flush,let's buy simmo out his bristol city contract too! What philosophy and style . We sacked Clement for playing like Cocu and he won games. During Rowetts time here bar a couple of aberrations against Sunderland and Burton we scored loads of goals and had the physicality too match up. There is no philosophy now except we have no cash, so have to play six 19 year olds week in, week out. The only philosophy we require is winning some matches. McClaren had a far better team of players to utilise when he came in both previous occasions. Anyone has their work cut out with this lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuwtfly Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Hell of a lot of presumptions being made about how we would play under Big Sam, and how he would utilise (or not utilise) our academy. We've made such presumptions about managers before; I made plenty about how we would play under Cocu for example. We are rarely right. If it was Big Sam, I suggest we wait and see what he's got in his plan for us before we go mad. He has openly said that he doesn't want a firefighter job. Instead, he wants a project, a club he can build up. That doesn't sound to me like someone who would intend to sign a bunch of veterans on mega money and disregard the youth altogether. Let's see what happens. My guess is that it'll be someone completely different in the frame by this time tomorrow. But for now, we can dream...or despair... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derby blood Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Looks like Big Sam, hate him or live him, he has done a good job everywhere he's been Was my tip/choice right at the start. He Will bring discipline, a winning mentality, a clear plan on his tactics, believe me will will get us sorted, and next season under Sam he will take us back to the prem, where we need and ALL want to be, so for me a great appointment, if we manage to pull this off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibby Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Big Sam has accepted the job, its matter of when its confirmed. Martyn Margetson as first-team goalkeeping coach he wants. Sammy Lee as number two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Alpha said: If we appoint Allardyce then all the stuff about building a philosophy and the youth etc would be shat on again, no? 'I've got a plan' 'What's the plan 'To keep changing the plan!' I'm sure he'll be cheap. ? Unfortunately that's out of the window now assuming new owners come in and want more of an instant success approach. Whilst Mel was here I was becoming more idealistic... Happy to play the long game, blood youngsters, play decent attractive football and earn promotion when we were ready. Assuming Mel sells up and we become Abu Derby FC I'd be happy with Big Sam and a sore neck for a couple of seasons as I genuinely think he'd get us out of the division - it might not be pretty but being pretty has ultimately got us nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 18 minutes ago, Ibby said: Big Sam has accepted the job, its matter of when its confirmed. Martyn Margetson as first-team goalkeeping coach he wants. Sammy Lee as number two. What? Source? Eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampant Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Well if it is Big Sam then that's my bets on Cook, Jokanavic and Alonso down the pan. What a waste of £3 that was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 I feel inspired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC27 Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 3 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Taking on Sam would be reverting to Pearson or rowett again,completely destroying our style of play and our fantastic academy in favour of a form of long kick,hoof it football again. We need someone who can actually adapt and progress our footballing into the type we played back in 2014/15 where possession is effective and leads to attacking stylish football thats a joy to watch and drags us out of the mire without forgetting our principles. that way our players can adapt rather than starting at the beginning again as we have seen so unsuccessfully before. the only one who has been actively following is and observing what we are doing appears to be Mac and he's the only one who could hit the ground running.....he's proven it can be done with us before. Give him this season and if it works out,offer him another....while we are at it and if we are now flush,let's buy simmo out his bristol city contract too! This is a pretty self righteous comment in fairness... Mac was great to see and I’d love to see it again the football was great. But it never got us up. The closest we came to getting up again was with Lampard who liked to ply football but at the same time was happy to play balls into the box and play percentages as a plan B. Big Sam would provide us with a lot of entertainment as well as winning he likes to play balls into the box and get the ball up the field quickly it might now be playing out from the back but it will be entertaining, I’ve never really seen him as a 1-0 merchant either I think he’d prefer to put teams to bed by scoring more goals than them. So we’d be in for an fun ride. In addition if he does take us up he’ll most likely keep us there and consolidate us as a prem side. Watch some of his West Ham Bolton and Crystal Palace games they were very entertaining to watch in the main. Some clubs he didn’t have the player so play more attacking football, he works with what he has. To my first point we don’t have a divine right to football played 1 season 6 years ago. Life moves on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 5 minutes ago, Ambitious said: Since I've got a bit of time, I'm going to do a deep dive into Sam Allardyce's managerial career. I went to do one of these with Nigel Adkins, who I have a ton of respect for, but simply lost the motivation to finish it off as I was never convinced it was going to be him. It did highlight a number of things, which I hope this one does, that are often overlooked or retrospectively should be more admired than it was initially was. The benefit of hindsight is a really great tool when judging any manager's performance: the players they've signed, the manager's ability to adapt and change, the longevity of their work following their departure. It's really not as straight forward as looking at their win percentage and then going off the numbers. Before I start, I want to detail my own bias towards Sam Allardyce. My thoughts and feelings regarding his ability as a manger prior to writing up a report as though I'd never heard of the guy. The media label him as a kick and rush hoofball merchant, however I have never bought into that ideology. I am absolutely certain that he looks at things differently to the likes of Klopp and Guardiola, but Allardyce WAS one of the first managers to bring in advanced analytics to the Premier League and turn it into production. He played the percentages and really mastered tutoring situational football. He is someone who I am convinced can significantly improve the decision making and awareness of our players. Now, on to the deep dive: He went into management in 1994 as the manager of Blackpool. Not much to report, a 12th placed finish for a side that struggled to keep the ball out of the net. 70 goals conceded in 46 games. This was, however, an improvement for Blackpool who finished one place above the relegation zone the season before. The year after, 95-96, Allardyce was able to vastly improve their defence and finished 3rd in the league. He had the club finish in their highest position since the mid-70s and was consequently sacked and replaced by Gary Megson, who followed up the season after taking the team backwards. I think all-in-all we can consider this a good first job in management. The next job in management would be the one that made some take notice. He joined a terrible Notts County team pinned to the bottom of division 2 and oversaw their relegation after he came in during midseason. Nevertheless, he rejuvenated the team and they bounced back at a canter, winning the league with 99 points as the highest scoring team in the league (with the least amount of goals conceded). He had a young Steve Finnan at the club in division 3, who later went on to be a Champions League winner with Liverpool. He established the team back in division 2 before making the move to Bolton. Obviously, it would be the job he did at Bolton that catapulted him into the spotlight as one of the best managers in the country. I wiil say that although he was a bit of disaster here that Sam Allardyce walked into a good setup at Bolton due to the ability of Colin Todd to spot a player. He signed an extremely young Eidur Gudjohnson from KR Reykjavík who was pinnacle to his early success with Bolton. He finished 6th in his first season, albeit coming in for Colin Todd in October after a bad start. They finished the season strongly with 17 goals in their last 6 games (5 wins and 1 draw). Nevertheless, it wasn't to be in the play-offs and they lost out in a high scoring affair with Ipswich. He did take them up through the play-offs the season after losing many of their better players (including Gudjohnson to Chelsea) and he did that by scouting abroad and adding character to his team. He also did it by improving the young players available to him, notably Kevin Nolan. He established Bolton in the Premier League, despite a relatively modest budget. He brought in some experienced pros and was able to scout abroad very well to bring in quality players. The season after he brought the likes of Jay Jay Okocha, Bernard Mendy and Ivan Campo to the club. They ended the season very well and only lost two games between February and the end of the season after a slow start with so many players integrating into the club. He followed his first two seasons in the Premier League up with a big leap, which to me shows progression in his own ability and the ability to develop a team. He added the likes of Stelios Giannakopoulos and Kevin Davies on small fees, finished 8th. The season later he finished 6th missing out on a Champions League spot on goal difference. He had two more seasons in the top 8 of the Premier League before leaving for the Newcastle job. Bolton stuck around in the Premier League for a few seasons, never finishing in the top half again, before eventually being relegated. The Newcastle job was strange. He didn't really do a terrible job: he started quite well but hit a rough patch and then was out on his ear. It was an era where Newcastle were looking to be a super power in the Premier League, with the likes of Owen and Duff. I do think he was guilty of those above him thinking he had a better team at his disposal than he actually had. The team finished 12th and was ultimately relegated the year after. A number of high profile names on big money ultimately has that effect, but perhaps he should've done better. He went into Blackburn the year after to replace Paul Ince after he went on a run of 6 straight losses and 10 losses in their first 17 games. They looked dead to rights to be relegated, but Allardyce kept them up relatively comfortable in the end. He followed it up with a top 10 finish the season and after a fall out with the Venky's he was sacked with the club midtable in the Premier League. They were relegated the season after. The next job was in the Championship with West Ham after their relegation. He got them promoted via the play-offs. Ok, I guess a season without promotion would've been a failure, but he had them playing at a high level and they were largely consistent. He had West Ham in the top 10 the season after their promotion and hovering around the midtable spots during his time there. He then joined Sunderland, again a team who looked dead to rights to be relegated. 3 points in their first 8 games. He kept them up and earned a lot of respect along the way - enough to land him the England job. We all know how that started and ended so I won't go into that too much. He joined Palace after the England gig and took them from fighting to relegation to mid-table. I guess this is why he earns the reputation as a short-term stop gap because he's able to do this almost as second nature. He retired after that game, opening himself up to international management but not club management. He then came in as Everton manager when they were hovering above the relegation spots. They had just lost 4-1 to Southampton. Allardyce took them from 17th to 8th. Although, I think this was arguably not his finest hour - it's another job where he had improved results and production. Although, he had two signings in January - Tosun and Walcott - who were disappointing. Now, for those who have bothered to read this: god bless you. I actually think this shows a man who has never done a bad job anywhere he's been. He's improved the situation of every club he's touched and for whatever reason he's never stayed long in any one place. A few things that I noted: he's developed young players to a very high level. He's not scared of trusting young players and can offer them a lot with regards to awareness and decision making. He does like more experienced pros and I don't think that's any secret, but he's not someone who will banish the academy players and won't develop them any further. It's a tired stereotype. A hallmark of a Allardyce team is goals throughout the team. In pretty much every job, he's had a high number of goalscorers with the highest goalscorer not necessarily scoring a high number of goals. I thought that was very telling, perhaps something that we can work with going forward as we don't have a striker we can expect a high number of goals from. I would say his management is based on developing the players at his disposal by coaching their decision making and creating favourable situations in games that allow us to overload certain areas of the pitch. It's certainly not kick and rush as advertised by lazy stereotypes. I'm sure that he would do a good job and we would be a lot more dangerous going forward than we are with the slow build up play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Ibby said: Big Sam has accepted the job, its matter of when its confirmed. Martyn Margetson as first-team goalkeeping coach he wants. Sammy Lee as number two. What is it with fake ITKs on here. It's gotten bad. A few weeks ago Terry had ''left Villa'' and was on his way to Derby, then we have Richard246 constantly making stuff up, and now there is this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldben Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 The statistics tell the story, in too many of the teams he's managed his win rate has been under 40%. He's been circa 35%, its dangerous to bring in an unsuccessful manager with the club at the foot of the championship. Plus he's in his late 60s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stockport Ram Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 6 hours ago, Ambitious said: 6 hours ago, Ambitious said: Since I've got a bit of time, I'm going to do a deep dive into Sam Allardyce's managerial career. I went to do one of these with Nigel Adkins, who I have a ton of respect for, but simply lost the motivation to finish it off as I was never convinced it was going to be him. It did highlight a number of things, which I hope this one does, that are often overlooked or retrospectively should be more admired than it was initially was. The benefit of hindsight is a really great tool when judging any manager's performance: the players they've signed, the manager's ability to adapt and change, the longevity of their work following their departure. It's really not as straight forward as looking at their win percentage and then going off the numbers. Before I start, I want to detail my own bias towards Sam Allardyce. My thoughts and feelings regarding his ability as a manger prior to writing up a report as though I'd never heard of the guy. The media label him as a kick and rush hoofball merchant, however I have never bought into that ideology. I am absolutely certain that he looks at things differently to the likes of Klopp and Guardiola, but Allardyce WAS one of the first managers to bring in advanced analytics to the Premier League and turn it into production. He played the percentages and really mastered tutoring situational football. He is someone who I am convinced can significantly improve the decision making and awareness of our players. Now, on to the deep dive: He went into management in 1994 as the manager of Blackpool. Not much to report, a 12th placed finish for a side that struggled to keep the ball out of the net. 70 goals conceded in 46 games. This was, however, an improvement for Blackpool who finished one place above the relegation zone the season before. The year after, 95-96, Allardyce was able to vastly improve their defence and finished 3rd in the league. He had the club finish in their highest position since the mid-70s and was consequently sacked and replaced by Gary Megson, who followed up the season after taking the team backwards. I think all-in-all we can consider this a good first job in management. The next job in management would be the one that made some take notice. He joined a terrible Notts County team pinned to the bottom of division 2 and oversaw their relegation after he came in during midseason. Nevertheless, he rejuvenated the team and they bounced back at a canter, winning the league with 99 points as the highest scoring team in the league (with the least amount of goals conceded). He had a young Steve Finnan at the club in division 3, who later went on to be a Champions League winner with Liverpool. He established the team back in division 2 before making the move to Bolton. Obviously, it would be the job he did at Bolton that catapulted him into the spotlight as one of the best managers in the country. I wiil say that although he was a bit of disaster here that Sam Allardyce walked into a good setup at Bolton due to the ability of Colin Todd to spot a player. He signed an extremely young Eidur Gudjohnson from KR Reykjavík who was pinnacle to his early success with Bolton. He finished 6th in his first season, albeit coming in for Colin Todd in October after a bad start. They finished the season strongly with 17 goals in their last 6 games (5 wins and 1 draw). Nevertheless, it wasn't to be in the play-offs and they lost out in a high scoring affair with Ipswich. He did take them up through the play-offs the season after losing many of their better players (including Gudjohnson to Chelsea) and he did that by scouting abroad and adding character to his team. He also did it by improving the young players available to him, notably Kevin Nolan. He established Bolton in the Premier League, despite a relatively modest budget. He brought in some experienced pros and was able to scout abroad very well to bring in quality players. The season after he brought the likes of Jay Jay Okocha, Bernard Mendy and Ivan Campo to the club. They ended the season very well and only lost two games between February and the end of the season after a slow start with so many players integrating into the club. He followed his first two seasons in the Premier League up with a big leap, which to me shows progression in his own ability and the ability to develop a team. He added the likes of Stelios Giannakopoulos and Kevin Davies on small fees, finished 8th. The season later he finished 6th missing out on a Champions League spot on goal difference. He had two more seasons in the top 8 of the Premier League before leaving for the Newcastle job. Bolton stuck around in the Premier League for a few seasons, never finishing in the top half again, before eventually being relegated. The Newcastle job was strange. He didn't really do a terrible job: he started quite well but hit a rough patch and then was out on his ear. It was an era where Newcastle were looking to be a super power in the Premier League, with the likes of Owen and Duff. I do think he was guilty of those above him thinking he had a better team at his disposal than he actually had. The team finished 12th and was ultimately relegated the year after. A number of high profile names on big money ultimately has that effect, but perhaps he should've done better. He went into Blackburn the year after to replace Paul Ince after he went on a run of 6 straight losses and 10 losses in their first 17 games. They looked dead to rights to be relegated, but Allardyce kept them up relatively comfortable in the end. He followed it up with a top 10 finish the season and after a fall out with the Venky's he was sacked with the club midtable in the Premier League. They were relegated the season after. The next job was in the Championship with West Ham after their relegation. He got them promoted via the play-offs. Ok, I guess a season without promotion would've been a failure, but he had them playing at a high level and they were largely consistent. He had West Ham in the top 10 the season after their promotion and hovering around the midtable spots during his time there. He then joined Sunderland, again a team who looked dead to rights to be relegated. 3 points in their first 8 games. He kept them up and earned a lot of respect along the way - enough to land him the England job. We all know how that started and ended so I won't go into that too much. He joined Palace after the England gig and took them from fighting to relegation to mid-table. I guess this is why he earns the reputation as a short-term stop gap because he's able to do this almost as second nature. He retired after that game, opening himself up to international management but not club management. He then came in as Everton manager when they were hovering above the relegation spots. They had just lost 4-1 to Southampton. Allardyce took them from 17th to 8th. Although, I think this was arguably not his finest hour - it's another job where he had improved results and production. Although, he had two signings in January - Tosun and Walcott - who were disappointing. Now, for those who have bothered to read this: god bless you. I actually think this shows a man who has never done a bad job anywhere he's been. He's improved the situation of every club he's touched and for whatever reason he's never stayed long in any one place. A few things that I noted: he's developed young players to a very high level. He's not scared of trusting young players and can offer them a lot with regards to awareness and decision making. He does like more experienced pros and I don't think that's any secret, but he's not someone who will banish the academy players and won't develop them any further. It's a tired stereotype. A hallmark of a Allardyce team is goals throughout the team. In pretty much every job, he's had a high number of goalscorers with the highest goalscorer not necessarily scoring a high number of goals. I thought that was very telling, perhaps something that we can work with going forward as we don't have a striker we can expect a high number of goals from. I would say his management is based on developing the players at his disposal by coaching their decision making and creating favourable situations in games that allow us to overload certain areas of the pitch. It's certainly not kick and rush as advertised by lazy stereotypes. I'm sure that he would do a good job and we would be a lot more dangerous going forward than we are with the slow build up play. An excellent factual post. I've recently read his autobiography which adds a little nuance to the facts, and he's certainly got a lot of belief in himself. The facts seem to back that up. Two sides to every story also comes to mind though - He was getting his teams to play significantly better than the sum of their component parts (it would certainly appear so), but the alarming drop off in performance of their post-Allardyce period could also suggest that his legacy was purely first team rather than holistic. Would I take promotion next season, followed by 16th and then 10th, then Sam leaves as we get a bigger name demanded by our owners and subsequently slide back into inevitable relegation and a three manager season? Quite frankly, just at the moment - you're damn right I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammeister Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 7 hours ago, Ibby said: Big Sam has accepted the job, its matter of when its confirmed. Martyn Margetson as first-team goalkeeping coach he wants. Sammy Lee as number two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 Ram Raider Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 7 hours ago, Ibby said: Big Sam has accepted the job, its matter of when its confirmed. Martyn Margetson as first-team goalkeeping coach he wants. Sammy Lee as number two. Not heard from Rich246 for a while!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnyram Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 11 hours ago, hintonsboots said: Trying to blow it into the net. Can you not change the GIF to Big Sam Fox blowing it instead? Leaves a much better image ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibby Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 25 minutes ago, 1977 Ram Raider said: Not heard from Rich246 for a while!!! Who is he ? And why he keep getting mention for ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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