Get in Big Sam

[BIllyD]

6 hours ago, Andicis said:

What is it with fake ITKs on here. It's gotten bad. A few weeks ago Terry had ''left Villa'' and was on his way to Derby, then we have Richard246 constantly making stuff up, and now there is this. 

To be fair to this poster they have substantiated with a name. Not saying it's true as I wouldn't have a scooby, but at least it's better than something may or may not happen and the manager may or may not be employed, may have a beard may not, may be young but could be old ?

[Allanthediver]

Big Sam on GMB right now...talking about pubs and football 

[i-Ram]

7 hours ago, Ambitious said:

7 hours ago, Ambitious said:

Since I've got a bit of time, I'm going to do a deep dive into Sam Allardyce's managerial career. I went to do one of these with Nigel Adkins, who I have a ton of respect for, but simply lost the motivation to finish it off as I was never convinced it was going to be him. It did highlight a number of things, which I hope this one does, that are often overlooked or retrospectively should be more admired than it was initially was. 

The benefit of hindsight is a really great tool when judging any manager's performance: the players they've signed, the manager's ability to adapt and change, the longevity of their work following their departure. It's really not as straight forward as looking at their win percentage and then going  off the numbers. 

Before I start, I want to detail my own bias towards Sam Allardyce. My thoughts and feelings regarding his ability as a manger prior to writing up a report as though I'd never heard of the guy. The media label him as a kick and rush hoofball merchant, however I have never bought into that ideology. I am absolutely certain that he looks at things differently to the likes of Klopp and Guardiola, but Allardyce WAS one of the first managers to bring in advanced analytics to the Premier League and turn it into production. He played the percentages and really mastered tutoring situational football. He is someone who I am convinced can significantly improve the decision making and awareness of our players. 

Now, on to the deep dive: He went into management in 1994 as the manager of Blackpool. Not much to report, a 12th placed finish for a side that struggled to keep the ball out of the net. 70 goals conceded in 46 games. This was, however, an improvement for Blackpool who finished one place above the relegation zone the season before. The year after, 95-96, Allardyce was able to vastly improve their defence and finished 3rd in the league. He had the club finish in their highest position since the mid-70s and was consequently sacked and replaced by Gary Megson, who followed up the season after taking the team backwards. I think all-in-all we can consider this a good first job in management. 

The next job in management would be the one that made some take notice. He joined a terrible Notts County team pinned to the bottom of division 2 and oversaw their relegation after he came in during midseason. Nevertheless, he rejuvenated the team and they bounced back at a canter, winning the league with 99 points as the highest scoring team in the league (with the least amount of goals conceded). He had a young Steve Finnan at the club in division 3, who later went on to be a Champions League winner with Liverpool. He established the team back in division 2 before making the move to Bolton. 

Obviously, it would be the job he did at Bolton that catapulted him into the spotlight as one of the best managers in the country. I wiil say that although he was a bit of disaster here that Sam Allardyce walked into a good setup at Bolton due to the ability of Colin Todd to spot a player. He signed an extremely young Eidur Gudjohnson from KR Reykjavík who was pinnacle to his early success with Bolton. He finished 6th in his first season, albeit coming in for Colin Todd in October after a bad start. They finished the season strongly with 17 goals in their last 6 games (5 wins and 1 draw). Nevertheless, it wasn't to be in the play-offs and they lost out in a high scoring affair with Ipswich. He did take them up through the play-offs the season after losing many of their better players (including Gudjohnson to Chelsea) and he did that by scouting abroad and adding character to his team. He also did it by improving the young players available to him, notably Kevin Nolan. 

He established Bolton in the Premier League, despite a relatively modest budget. He brought in some experienced pros and was able to scout abroad very well to bring in quality players. The season after he brought the likes of Jay Jay Okocha, Bernard Mendy and Ivan Campo to the club. They ended the season very well and only lost two games between February and the end of the season after a slow start with so many players integrating into the club. 

He followed his first two seasons in the Premier League up with a big leap, which to me shows progression in his own ability and the ability to develop a team. He added the likes of Stelios Giannakopoulos and Kevin Davies on small fees, finished 8th. The season later he finished 6th missing out on a Champions League spot on goal difference. He had two more seasons in the top 8 of the Premier League before leaving for the Newcastle job. Bolton stuck around in the Premier League for a few seasons, never finishing in the top half again, before eventually being relegated. 

The Newcastle job was strange. He didn't really do a terrible job: he started quite well but hit a rough patch and then was out on his ear. It was an era where Newcastle were looking to be a super power in the Premier League, with the likes of Owen and Duff. I do think he was guilty of those above him thinking he had a better team at his disposal than he actually had. The team finished 12th and was ultimately relegated the year after. A number of high profile names on big money ultimately has that effect, but perhaps he should've done better. 

He went into Blackburn the year after to replace Paul Ince after he went on a run of 6 straight losses and 10 losses in their first 17 games. They looked dead to rights to be relegated, but Allardyce kept them up relatively comfortable in the end. He followed it up with a top 10 finish the season and after a fall out with the Venky's he was sacked with the club midtable in the Premier League. They were relegated the season after. 

The next job was in the Championship with West Ham after their relegation. He got them promoted via the play-offs. Ok, I guess a season without promotion would've been a failure, but he had them playing at a high level and they were largely consistent. He had West Ham in the top 10 the season after their promotion and hovering around the midtable spots during his time there. 

He then joined Sunderland, again a team who looked dead to rights to be relegated. 3 points in their first 8 games. He kept them up and earned a lot of respect along the way - enough to land him the England job. We all know how that started and ended so I won't go into that too much. 

He joined Palace after the England gig and took them from fighting to relegation to mid-table. I guess this is why he earns the reputation as a short-term stop gap because he's able to do this almost as second nature. He retired after that game, opening himself up to international management but not club management. 

He then came in as Everton manager when they were hovering above the relegation spots. They had just lost 4-1 to Southampton. Allardyce took them from 17th to 8th. Although, I think this was arguably not his finest hour - it's another job where he had improved results and production. Although, he had two signings in January - Tosun and Walcott - who were disappointing.

Now, for those who have bothered to read this: god bless you. I actually think this shows a man who has never done a bad job anywhere he's been. He's improved the situation of every club he's touched and for whatever reason he's never stayed long in any one place. 

A few things that I noted: he's developed young players to a very high level. He's not scared of trusting young players and can offer them a lot with regards to awareness and decision making. He does like more experienced pros and I don't think that's any secret, but he's not someone who will banish the academy players and won't develop them any further. It's a tired stereotype. 

A hallmark of a Allardyce team is goals throughout the team. In pretty much every job, he's had a high number of goalscorers with the highest goalscorer not necessarily scoring a high number of goals. I thought that was very telling, perhaps something that we can work with going forward as we don't have a striker we can expect a high number of goals from. 

I would say his management is based on developing the players at his disposal by coaching their decision making and creating favourable situations in games that allow us to overload certain areas of the pitch. It's certainly not kick and rush as advertised by lazy stereotypes. I'm sure that he would do a good job and we would be a lot more dangerous going forward than we are with the slow build up play. 

Expand  

So if I read this correct, he’s never won anything. 2 play-off promotions in 26 years of management. Disrespected the England role for some easy additional money. Not worked for well over 2 years after boring Everton fans to tears. Looks like a heart attack waiting to happen.

Mel, get the man in. It’s the Derby way.

[BIllyD]

14 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

So if I read this correct, he’s never won anything. 2 play-off promotions in 26 years of management. Disrespected the England role for some easy additional money. Not worked for well over 2 years after boring Everton fans to tears. Looks like a heart attack waiting to happen.

Mel, get the man in. It’s the Derby way.

You want a manager capable of delivering silverware? You do know we are bottom of the second tier of English football don't you ?

Out of interest, who would you want ?

[Sparkle]

2 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

You want a manager capable of delivering silverware? You do know we are bottom of the second tier of English football don't you ?

Out of interest, who would you want ?

I want a manager who plays attractive attacking football - that way I will pay to watch it and like many people that is going to be a major consideration when it comes to handing over money 

currently Paul Cook for me because I believe he can achieve what Jim Smith achieved for Derby once we sort the mess of this season out 

[AndyinLiverpool]

29 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

So if I read this correct, he’s never won anything. 2 play-off promotions in 26 years of management. Disrespected the England role for some easy additional money. Not worked for well over 2 years after boring Everton fans to tears. Looks like a heart attack waiting to happen.

Mel, get the man in. It’s the Derby way.

West Ham fans also complained about the football, even as they were scraping through the playoffs on parachute payments.

[i-Ram]

14 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

You want a manager capable of delivering silverware?

You do know we are bottom of the second tier of English football don't you ?

Out of interest, who would you want ?

1) A winners medal would be nice.

2) Bloody hell, when did that happen?

3) See Next Manager thread. Posted twice, and (nothing against you) I am losing the will to live to post and justify again.

p.s. It’ll be Rooney (or Terry) who gets the gig.

[i-Ram]

6 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

West Ham fans also complained about the football, even as they were scraping through the playoffs on parachute payments.

Those Cockney charmers were only ever happy when they won the World Cup in 1966.

[BIllyD]

17 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

1) A winners medal would be nice.

2) Bloody hell, when did that happen?

3) See Next Manager thread. Posted twice, and (nothing against you) I am losing the will to live to post and justify again.

p.s. It’ll be Rooney (or Terry) who gets the gig.

A winners medal is irrelevant, one of the most pointless criteria's of any potential manager we interview.

172 pages ? no thanks ?

It doesn't bother me who the next manager is, I just hope for stability it's done sooner rather than later. I will give whoever comes in and give them a chance, the only manager who I have disliked their style is GR, even PC I would have minded if he had continued to the end of the season, even if he took a down, that's football. 

SM has been my favourite, although he has failed so wouldn't like to see him back, if I had to pick I think I'd go for Wagner, always liked the way he got his team playing on the front foot.

[RoyMac5]

6 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

It doesn't bother me who the next manager is, I just hope for stability it's done sooner rather than later. I will give whoever comes in and give them a chance, the only manager who I have disliked their style is GR, even PC I would have minded if he had continued to the end of the season, even if he took a down, that's football. 

SM has been my favourite, although he has failed so wouldn't like to see him back, if I had to pick I think I'd go for Wagner, always liked the way he got his team playing on the front foot.

Lol. So stability at all costs, which for you includes relegation - that would certainly cost. So failing with PC is better than 'failing' with Mac! Give your head a little wobble?

As for Wagner there's no point being on the front foot his teams don't score goals.

Oh and we're not desperate enough (ever) to need Allardyce!

#COYR

[BIllyD]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Lol. So stability at all costs, which for you includes relegation - that would certainly cost. So failing with PC is better than 'failing' with Mac! Give your head a little wobble?

As for Wagner there's no point being on the front foot his teams don't score goals.

Oh and we're not desperate enough (ever) to need Allardyce!

#COYR

Stability as getting someone in to stop this consistent questioning on who will be the next manager. Would it bother me if we were relegated ? Not that much, I'd still be doing the same, watching my team on a Saturday afternoon wanting them to win, I'd get to goto new grounds, is it any different to what I have been doing over the past 10 years ?? Don't get me wrong, I'd rather be watching us play on Europe, but I'm also a realist.

Wagners team scored enough goals to earn them promotion, once again though it's the style of football I enjoy. 
 

As I said, don't care who it is, I'll support them whatever.

[Leicester Ram]

12 hours ago, Alpha said:

If we appoint Allardyce then all the stuff about building a philosophy and the youth etc would be shat on again, no? 

'I've got a plan'

'What's the plan

'To keep changing the plan!'

I'm sure he'll be cheap. ?

This is more relevant than if the football’s attractive or any concerns about playing long ball.

We finally kept onto a manager long enough for them to start building a squad and philosophy. Cocu was clearly lost by the end of his tenure and rather than having someone coming in to blow it all up (again), we’d be better off bringing in someone who can continue that work while taking the next step. Similar to what McClaren did when taking over from Clough.

We have huge, huge financial assets in Sibley, Bird, Knight and Buchanan who are all representing their countries at their respective levels. Some consistency would do them the world of good and a manager that suits their strengths is the way to do that.

All this all of a relegation specialist is so short sighted. All the new manager needs to be able to do is string enough wins together over the next 30 odd games to get us out of trouble, Big Sam isn’t the only manager capable of that.

[AndyinLiverpool]

I don't really understand the notion that somehow relegation is a catastrophe. It's football. Just football.

Perhaps we should just be grateful that the Rams fans who have died of Covid aren't here to witness it.

[desirelines]

Get Big Sam. Scrape a few 0-0s. Get a couple 1-0s. Climb out of the relegation zone. Performances improve. Put together a good series of results. Finish firmly mid-table. Sell Academy product in the summer. Sign experienced Championship players on a budget. Start the new season well. Top six in December. Performances tail off. Fans get restless. More 0-0s. Can't score again. Tugid football. Languishing mid-table. Sack Big Sam for not playing The Derby Way. Hire manager with completely different style. Repeat until The Rapture takes us all. 

[Bwash_Ram]

England played some great stuff under Sam

[Nuwtfly]

Might as well lock this thread now as there's absolutely no way it will be Big Sam working under Steve McClaren. 

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, BIllyD said:

Stability as getting someone in to stop this consistent questioning on who will be the next manager.

Mac's coming back to help with that - stable enough for you? ?

[BIllyD]

12 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Mac's coming back to help with that - stable enough for you? ?

Mac is a great coach, no doubt about that, if true then I'd welcome that.

[TimRam]

7 hours ago, Allanthediver said:

Big Sam on GMB right now...talking about pubs and football 

Knows his stuff then...this is what we want!

[TimRam]

4 hours ago, Bwash_Ram said:

England played some great stuff under Sam

100% win rate.