alexxxxx Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said: This blew me away. Our ground has been mortgaged to a third party without us knowing. Pretty grim that. Think it was announced a few weeks a go when dell lent Derby money, it was the collateral required. Think the mortgage is on the lease the stadium or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 23 minutes ago, Rambalin said: Being said Rosenoir and Given assisted by Rooney will take charge of first team affairs temporarily. Ffs ?♀️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 38 minutes ago, CornwallRam said: I suspect that the Cocu news is significant. Either the takeover has gone through and will be announced shortly or it's collapsed and Mel is taking control of the situation. I'd say if we announce Bowyer or Wassall as caretaker, the takeover is off. If we announce a new permanent manager it's happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mckram Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 So looks like it’s the stadium that’s causing things to drag out? Sounds like the new owners are trying to buy that too, surely only worth £50m....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topram Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 John Percy also says the new owners and Mel agreed on the letting go off Cocu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 16 minutes ago, Topram said: More on Derby: new owners set to complete takeover of the football club next week, negotiations ongoing with the US party linked to Dell who own the mortgage on the Pride Park stadium. MM's company that bought the stadium borrowed the money from Dell. Guessing MM didn't talk to Dell before the announcement for confidentiality reasons. So they all now have to agree how it's going to work going forward if the financing stays in place. Can't see this could upset the deal because MM and the Sheikh knew the terms of the Dell debt before they signed so they knew what the options would be. And hopefully MM would not have announced if the deal was conditional on Dell's approval. But if the Sheikh wants to change the Dell terms, Dell is considering that from a standing start and will take their time It would have been more encouraging though to hear that for the Sheikh the loan is peanuts and so he's just going to pay it off from petty cash ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbados Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 1 minute ago, kevinhectoring said: It would have been more encouraging though to hear that for the Sheikh the loan is peanuts and so he's just going to pay it off from petty cash ? What’s to say he’s not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 49 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said: MM's company that bought the stadium borrowed the money from Dell. Guessing MM didn't talk to Dell before the announcement for confidentiality reasons. So they all now have to agree how it's going to work going forward if the financing stays in place. Can't see this could upset the deal because MM and the Sheikh knew the terms of the Dell debt before they signed so they knew what the options would be. And hopefully MM would not have announced if the deal was conditional on Dell's approval. But if the Sheikh wants to change the Dell terms, Dell is considering that from a standing start and will take their time It would have been more encouraging though to hear that for the Sheikh the loan is peanuts and so he's just going to pay it off from petty cash ? I'll guarantee that MSD were informed. It's part of the charge (displayed at Companies House) against the stadium that MSD have to be kept informed have a power of veto as Mel used all his footballing related holdings as collateral. If Mel had entered negotiations without MSD's permission he would be in default. The penalty for default is the club, stadium, academy and 50% of the catering business instantly transferring to MSD ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 3 hours ago, CornwallRam said: I'll guarantee that MSD were informed. It's part of the charge (displayed at Companies House) against the stadium that MSD have to be kept informed have a power of veto as Mel used all his footballing related holdings as collateral. If Mel had entered negotiations without MSD's permission he would be in default. The penalty for default is the club, stadium, academy and 50% of the catering business instantly transferring to MSD ownership. You're absolutely right about the collateral. It's extensive and a sign of the lengths MM has gone to, to keep things on the FFP rails. But if MSD were informed before announcement, MM would not now be in a smoke filled room with them, eating pizza and trying to cut a deal. Instead, MM and the Sheikh would already have agreed with MSD whether or not the financing would stay in place. If on the other hand MSD was NOT informed, it would be because MM and the Sheikh can avoid the dramatic consequences you describe simply by repaying the debt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 4 hours ago, kevinhectoring said: It would have been more encouraging though to hear that for the Sheikh the loan is peanuts and so he's just going to pay it off from petty cash ? I read somewhere that Mike Ashley made a similar observation when the Newcastle sale to some Sheikh (the same one, who knows??) fell through, something along the lines of 'if the the guy is as wealthy as he claims why is he haggling over £10m to secure the deal....' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackworthRamIsGod Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 49 minutes ago, europia said: I read somewhere that Mike Ashley made a similar observation when the Newcastle sale to some Sheikh (the same one, who knows??) fell through, something along the lines of 'if the the guy is as wealthy as he claims why is he haggling over £10m to secure the deal....' On the other hand, I took that to mean Mike Ashley put the price up 10 million (or so) at the 11th hour and that Sheikh Khaled should have put up with it because he is rich enough anyway. It's a little rich coming from a man who has been criticised so often for not giving his staff what they are entitled to, even though he is so rich he could afford to give all his staff a 20% pay rise and he wouldnt even notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 9 hours ago, kevinhectoring said: You're absolutely right about the collateral. It's extensive and a sign of the lengths MM has gone to, to keep things on the FFP rails. But if MSD were informed before announcement, MM would not now be in a smoke filled room with them, eating pizza and trying to cut a deal. Instead, MM and the Sheikh would already have agreed with MSD whether or not the financing would stay in place. If on the other hand MSD was NOT informed, it would be because MM and the Sheikh can avoid the dramatic consequences you describe simply by repaying the debt The wording on the charge document is very stark. MSD would have been informed before talks even began or they would now own the club. That said, I saw an article claiming they were about to conclude the takeover with no mention of the Abu Dhabi group. I assumed it was just badly written, but maybe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBRammette Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 14 hours ago, kevinhectoring said: MM's company that bought the stadium borrowed the money from Dell. Guessing MM didn't talk to Dell before the announcement for confidentiality reasons. So they all now have to agree how it's going to work going forward if the financing stays in place. Can't see this could upset the deal because MM and the Sheikh knew the terms of the Dell debt before they signed so they knew what the options would be. And hopefully MM would not have announced if the deal was conditional on Dell's approval. But if the Sheikh wants to change the Dell terms, Dell is considering that from a standing start and will take their time It would have been more encouraging though to hear that for the Sheikh the loan is peanuts and so he's just going to pay it off from petty cash ? Often the richest are very careful with their money even if something is like 50p to them. Doesnt mean money isnt there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 15 hours ago, IlsonDerby said: This blew me away. Our ground has been mortgaged to a third party without us knowing. Pretty grim that. Get Mel out the club. Gone from low manageable debt, bottom half wage bill and owning our own ground to this absolute show. How he’s made half a billion based on this I’ll never know. I knew about it, its been public knowledge for some time. The fact that you think a businessman having debt secured against an asset is bad, shows why MM has made half a billion and you haven't possibly? Regarding your comment about low manageable debt, you realise the ground was mortgaged before MM took over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 46 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I knew about it, its been public knowledge for some time. The fact that you think a businessman having debt secured against an asset is bad, shows why MM has made half a billion and you haven't possibly? Regarding your comment about low manageable debt, you realise the ground was mortgaged before MM took over? There’s a difference between a loan being secured with an asset and the wording of the tweet which suggests it’s been remortgaged to release cash. When he took over the mortgage was a small manageable one according to Glick and co. I understand how business works - my first class degree in accounting and finance gave me some insight to the different methods of financing a business. I also understand that a football club is not the same as a normal business... Me not being a half billionaire has nothing to do with my ability to analyse what is going on. I made a conscious decision to enter the public sector after my studies for a more fulfilling role than money ??♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said: There’s a difference between a loan being secured with an asset and the wording of the tweet which suggests it’s been remortgaged to release cash. When he took over the mortgage was a small manageable one according to Glick and co. I understand how business works - my first class degree in accounting and finance gave me some insight to the different methods of financing a business. I also understand that a football club is not the same as a normal business... Me not being a half billionaire has nothing to do with my ability to analyse what is going on. I made a conscious decision to enter the public sector after my studies for a more fulfilling role than money ??♂️ When he took over the mortgage was £15m, and we had other debt on top of that too. If what has been reported is correct, the remortgage raised £15m too, so how come that is now no longer manageable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said: When he took over the mortgage was £15m, and we had other debt on top of that too. If what has been reported is correct, the remortgage raised £15m too, so how come that is now no longer manageable? I think what concerns me more this time is that there is money owed on a stadium that legally doesn’t belong to us anymore. Before it was our asset as a club to lever against. Now we’ve got a third party who owns our stadium but owes money on it. Very messy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said: I think what concerns me more this time is that there is money owed on a stadium that legally doesn’t belong to us anymore. Before it was our asset as a club to lever against. Now we’ve got a third party who owns our stadium but owes money on it. Very messy. Yes can understand them concerns. Will be interesting to see what aoet of loan has been taken out secured against the training ground. Would have been nice if Mel could have left us in a debt free position. Maybe the takeover will involve clearing all debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamUltraRam Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 16 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said: I understand how business works - my first class degree in accounting and finance gave me some insight to the different methods of financing a business. I also understand that a football club is not the same as a normal business... Me not being a half billionaire has nothing to do with my ability to analyse what is going on. I made a conscious decision to enter the public sector after my studies for a more fulfilling role than money ??♂️ You weren't involved in the financing of the A52/Wyvern restructuring were you ? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 38 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said: I think what concerns me more this time is that there is money owed on a stadium that legally doesn’t belong to us anymore. Before it was our asset as a club to lever against. Now we’ve got a third party who owns our stadium but owes money on it. Very messy. surely ... the sheikh will have bought the stadium or will have a right to buy it or perhaps his back up plan is Markeaton Park Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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