rammieib Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 He'll probably look better when he doesn't have to spend the majority of the game actually defending. I think going out this cup is a blessing in disguise - its cost MTW another chance of getting more game time versus Luton and to establish that CB pairing. I'm confident he'll turn out to be decent. He's just not got much in front of him to help him at the moment. Our team is full of grafters currently, its not full of good footballers yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Duracell said: Quite bold to say he's either going to be our best overseas centre back of all time or our worst overseas centre back of all time. Your forgetting the Jamaican wonder that was Claude Davis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 20 minutes ago, Andicis said: Learning how to deal with a long ball. He got caught out vs Barrow, Reading and now last night by them. It's becoming a bit of a habit. I don't think it's extreme, he's a tidy enough footballer, but he needs to improve his positioning so he doesn't get caught out by the over the top as often. If he can adapt to that, there's no reason he can't be decent. I’ve not seen last nights yet but I’d say that it’s something that the unit needs to learn rather than just the individual if I’m honest. So do they push back ten yards to not give the attacker the run. When the centre half commits to the header do the full back or other centre half look to cover behind to stop the run and that type of thing. If teams want to play us on the counter then we need to be better in our defensive shape, which does take time to perfect. Although I do take your point that it’s also down to the individual to improve when it happens three times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottingram Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 33 minutes ago, Andicis said: So we're now not allowed to criticise him if he plays bad? He's not a scapegoat, nobody has said he can't be good. He ducked up yesterday, he got called out the same as any other player. When he plays well, he'll get praise, same as any other player. I personally think he's got a lot to learn before he's ready to start for us. By no means am I trying to pick on your post in particular but I saw a post from yourself in the match thread yesterday that was along the lines of “te Wierik really isn’t very good is he?” To me that isn’t balanced, that isn’t “te Wierik has a lot to learn” or “te Wierik hasn’t looked good so far” which to me would both be fair, it is a direct comment on his ability full stop which to me seems very harsh based on three games. We then get the “well are we not allowed to criticise him then” straw man which again I don’t mean to pick on you with but I have seen before from you among others. Literally no one is saying you can’t criticise him, we’re on a forum ? but its reactionary to be outright saying he isn’t good after just three games which I suspect is what the OP is referring to. Cutting him some slack as the OP refers to would be to acknowledge that he has some adapting to do which in the interests of fairness is something you have done here. You are well within your rights to criticise anybody you so please, and likewise people are well within their rights to disagree with that. No one I have really seen is trying to stem the flow of this either way, just asking for some balance on opinions which I think is entirely fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo jones Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said: You're over reacting in the same way you're accusing other posters of over reacting - the word hypocrisy comes to mind. To have a more balanced conversation people are commenting on what they're seen so far which has without argument been very poor. Unless you want posters to ignore this and write rave reviews instead? The comments I've seen on here have been very fair, balanced and proportionate to the displays witnessed so far. Much room for improvement. He’s poo, he’s useless, Albentosa Mark 2 and other such drivel, aren’t balanced conversation. Not even close to it, which is what I’ve been reading. You’ve done well to find the balanced views....which I’d have no issue with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 The issue is not letting the ball bounce from a long punt up field. All about concentrating and being in the right position. Get the impression he's not used to the long punts. Got to learn fast....If he does he will be a good player for us and hopefully have the confidence to carry the ball forward, which we desperately need. If he doesn't he will find himself on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longeatonram2020 Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, BaaLocks said: Your forgetting the Jamaican wonder that was Claude Davis Or the pure overseas quality of a Bjorn Otto Bragstad and Con Blatsis. Te Wierik would literally need to lose a leg to be in the same category as some of these Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, TuffLuff said: I’ve not seen last nights yet but I’d say that it’s something that the unit needs to learn rather than just the individual if I’m honest. So do they push back ten yards to not give the attacker the run. When the centre half commits to the header do the full back or other centre half look to cover behind to stop the run and that type of thing. If teams want to play us on the counter then we need to be better in our defensive shape, which does take time to perfect. Although I do take your point that it’s also down to the individual to improve when it happens three times! Completely agree with you, a huge part of it is as a unit, but as with your last sentence, I feel he needs to get individually better at dealing with it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, nottingram said: By no means am I trying to pick on your post in particular but I saw a post from yourself in the match thread yesterday that was along the lines of “te Wierik really isn’t very good is he?” To me that isn’t balanced, that isn’t “te Wierik has a lot to learn” or “te Wierik hasn’t looked good so far” which to me would both be fair, it is a direct comment on his ability full stop which to me seems very harsh based on three games. We then get the “well are we not allowed to criticise him then” straw man which again I don’t mean to pick on you with but I have seen before from you among others. Literally no one is saying you can’t criticise him, we’re on a forum ? but its reactionary to be outright saying he isn’t good after just three games which I suspect is what the OP is referring to. Cutting him some slack as the OP refers to would be to acknowledge that he has some adapting to do which in the interests of fairness is something you have done here. You are well within your rights to criticise anybody you so please, and likewise people are well within their rights to disagree with that. No one I have really seen is trying to stem the flow of this either way, just asking for some balance on opinions which I think is entirely fair. Hyperbole after he got sent off, though the match day thread is always full of it so it's not really a good place to measure criticism. I'm reactionary on it, as many are. I think the OP is wrong, though. I don't think anybody is scapegoating MTW, and if you can provide examples, I'll retract. I've seen him criticised. Keogh was scapegoated, that was a proper example of it happening. It's not a straw man, he's throwing out the scapegoat comment after a defender gets slagged off for getting sent off, that's a fair time to blame someone. If, as it was with times with Keogh, he was blamed for things to do with other defenders or the team in general he'd have a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Ram Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 Just needs more playing time. He’s playing for a new team, in a new league, in a new country. Will take him time to settle in but you can see there’s a player there and you know he’s a good professional because he was captain at Groningen. Will play much better and much more confidently once he’s got ten or so games under his belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 I've generally liked what I've seen from him - he's vocal, OK in the air & can clearly play. Positioning against the high diagonal/vertical ball has been shown to be a weakness but I'm not surprised. He comes from the Eredivise where that type of football is incredibly rare. In this country, its practically the first thing you have to master as a centre half, no matter if you're playing Sunday League or the Championship. They'll be working on it in training & he'll improve. Also recall Clarke & Tomori having some pretty dicey opening first few games for - sure Te Wierik will come good just like they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottingram Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, Andicis said: Hyperbole after he got sent off, though the match day thread is always full of it so it's not really a good place to measure criticism. I'm reactionary on it, as many are. I think the OP is wrong, though. I don't think anybody is scapegoating MTW, and if you can provide examples, I'll retract. I've seen him criticised. Keogh was scapegoated, that was a proper example of it happening. It's not a straw man, he's throwing out the scapegoat comment after a defender gets slagged off for getting sent off, that's a fair time to blame someone. If, as it was with times with Keogh, he was blamed for things to do with other defenders or the team in general he'd have a point. But I’m sure that that is what the OP is referring to rather than stuff like “He has a lot to learn on the English game and needs to wise up on long balls” which is perfectly fair and valid Like I say, no one is saying you can’t criticise him so it is a straw man when you say “well are we not allowed to criticise him then”. People are saying let’s be a bit more balanced in our criticism of him which is what is happening in this thread, and is entirely valid. I completely agree he isn’t being scapegoated (yet) but I do believe it’s a bit of a slippery slope as it doesn’t take much for a narrative to build up, as it did with Keogh. He has lots to work on and I believe he will do so. We have two very obvious recent examples of centre backs who have been written off after a few games but have proved themselves to be excellent, let’s hope we can add to that trend with MTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 1 minute ago, nottingram said: But I’m sure that that is what the OP is referring to rather than stuff like “He has a lot to learn on the English game and needs to wise up on long balls” which is perfectly fair and valid Like I say, no one is saying you can’t criticise him so it is a straw man when you say “well are we not allowed to criticise him then”. People are saying let’s be a bit more balanced in our criticism of him which is what is happening in this thread, and is entirely valid. I completely agree he isn’t being scapegoated (yet) but I do believe it’s a bit of a slippery slope as it doesn’t take much for a narrative to build up, as it did with Keogh. He has lots to work on and I believe he will do so. We have two very obvious recent examples of centre backs who have been written off after a few games but have proved themselves to be excellent, let’s hope we can add to that trend with MTW. I don't think Tomori or Clarke were ever written off, Clarke had an amazing game against Huddersfield and people were pretty high on him. Tomori had a tough game vs Leeds but so did everyone, I don't remember him being blamed more than anyone else. I just think you will find very little balance on a matchday thread regardless of result, players are either amazing or poo (I'm as guilty as anyone of this), but after the event you will get much more balanced critique of a performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 Need to also remember that Holland cancelled its league early too - there's 6 months between their season ending and this one starting, whereas players in this country have had 6 weeks. Seems vulnerable to long balls - and that's possibly down to how they play in Holland. That said, the rest of the defence has its part to play here, when the back line is more organised, that sort of thing will be cut out if we can catch it offside. The red card was also a bit of naivety, it looks to me as if he's trying to shepherd the ball back to Roos, but Maguire sees this coming and plays cute, getting his legs tangled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Anag Ram said: Great read. Really funny in translation. Rooney's free kick going stiff in the intersection. Brilliant. I often have that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premier ram Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 1 hour ago, BaaLocks said: Your forgetting the Jamaican wonder that was Claude Davis who could forget that clown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab a dab doo Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 I don't think we need to worry about Dutch Mike, its too much its early days in Derby career. He's settling down to life in a new country,new team mates, a new league Give him a little time its only his 2nd competitive game remember. If you were made the leader and captain of your last team it shows that you possess certain personality traits. He obviously someone who doesn't shy way from responsibility,leads from the front, has the ability to encourage others and most of all will put put mistakes and days like this behind him very quickly. In time he will become one of the stalwart's of the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViewsFromTheMiddle Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 Wisdom played really well at centre back last season, so it wouldn’t be the end of the world if that ends up happening again for a bit at least. Not writing off Mike yet btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud Aralliss Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 5 hours ago, Bwash_Ram said: All his highlights are in the opposition’s box, scoring goals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 I felt littlevbit sorry for him it was never a sening off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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