Millenniumram Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Just now, QuitYourJibbaJivin said: Rooney has played with him and trained with him for most of the year, I’d imagine he’d have a pretty good scope on his abilities by now. Maybe, but he’s hardly played, and training is very different to a match scenario. I just can’t see how a player who was part of one of the best defences in the Eredivisie can be crap. From the little I’ve seen of him, I could see a player in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: Fozzy definitely can’t. I’d rather see Claude Davis back, even at his age, than watch that disaster again. Buchanan probably could in an emergency, but I’d rather have him where he’s comfortable, and excelling for that matter. It just doesn’t make any sense to me why we wouldn’t involve someone who is natural centre back, and has top flight experience, within the squad when we’re so short on other options. He’s got to be better than someone from the U23’s. The fact that Rooney doesn’t rate him, despite never trying him, is what seems bizzare to me. Rooney has played with him, and also trained with him. Pretty sure he's capable of judging from that. Cocu wasn't picking Te Wierik either, and there is a reason for it. Two managers now haven't rated him. Maybe he just isn't capable of playing Championship football, like Albentosa wasn't. As for the Fozzy comment, laughable hyperbole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Andicis said: Rooney has played with him, and also trained with him. Pretty sure he's capable of judging from that. Cocu wasn't picking Te Wierik either, and there is a reason for it. Two managers now haven't rated him. Maybe he just isn't capable of playing Championship football, like Albentosa wasn't. As for the Fozzy comment, laughable hyperbole. Maybe so, and maybe I’m wrong. Still seems bizzare to me that a player of his pedigree couldn’t adapt to the championship. It’s irrelevant now because he’s going to go whichever way up, though I back him to be a success elsewhere, and I hope to God we have another CB lined up in January. As for Forsyth, I stand by it. He’s an absolute calamity at centre half. Doesn’t have the concentration levels to play there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Just now, Millenniumram said: Maybe so, and maybe I’m wrong. Still seems bizzare to me that a player of his pedigree couldn’t adapt to the championship. It’s irrelevant now because he’s going to go whichever way up, though I back him to be a success elsewhere, and I hope to God we have another CB lined up in January. A player of his pedigree? He's hardly got a sparkling CV, he's played for a bunch of clubs that would struggle to finish top half in the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: From the little I’ve seen of him, I could see a player in there. Perhaps if Rooney knew this he would be much more likely to have him in the starting 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: Maybe so, and maybe I’m wrong. Still seems bizzare to me that a player of his pedigree couldn’t adapt to the championship. It’s irrelevant now because he’s going to go whichever way up, though I back him to be a success elsewhere, and I hope to God we have another CB lined up in January. As for Forsyth, I stand by it. He’s an absolute calamity at centre half. Doesn’t have the concentration levels to play there. I don't think it's bizarre at all. If we leave out everything happening off the pitch, personality etc., there's roughly 3 different aspects in the game needing adaptation. Tempo, tactics and technique. I'll give you couple examples. A tempo demands are very high in Championship compared to Eredivisie. Eredivisie beats Championship in tactics and the need for technical ability is about the same. Greek league beats both in technical ability, and loses to Championship in tempo etc.. So, sometimes these moves works out, sometimes not. Albentosa had great reviews from La Liga and that's hardly worse league than Championship. But it certainly is different and IMO the tempo is the hardest part of the game to adapt to. And one last obvious example. Our players didn't adapt to Cocu's tactical demands that well. But with PSV, the result was different story. As such, Rooney is good fit with his workrate demands and simple football. Good person-job-fit if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 38 minutes ago, Andicis said: A player of his pedigree? He's hardly got a sparkling CV, he's played for a bunch of clubs that would struggle to finish top half in the Championship. Bit harsh. He was part of one of the best defences in the Eredivisie last season, which isn’t a poor League. He might not be Tomori, but he’s got a higher pedigree than our other centre back cover options, now Davies is injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbados Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Seems like a decent guy and I hope he lands back on his feet. He looked to lightweight for this league, Lucas Joao absolutely terrorised him that first game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Millenniumram said: That maybe he’s been judged too harshly on the back of a couple of poor performances from the entire team early in the season? It might be the case that he can’t adapt, but he hasn’t really been given the chance to try. I’d suggest he’d do a lot better in the current side than the one early in the season. The defence was unrecognisably organised last night compared with three months ago. Actually who was responsible for reorganising it as all the staff were there three months ago. Seems unbelievable that it could be improved so much so quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said: What other judgement is there that makes any sense? A player who has spent all his career playing a different style of football - even he commented about it. Why be surprised he can't adapt. Absolutely. Dutch Mike is the victim of a very poor judgement in my view. There's no way he'd ever have what it takes to compete in Championship football. Simple but obvious fact. Feel sorry for him...but wonder if he'd ever watched the English game before committing himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 He was truly pants in his first couple of games, but Wisdom was equally as bad and has been on more than a couple of occasions. He's playing better and Te Wierik looked OK against one of the most free scoring teams at Bournemouth. Too soon to say he's awful I think, but likewise he'll never be a top end defender at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: Bit harsh. He was part of one of the best defences in the Eredivisie last season, which isn’t a poor League. He might not be Tomori, but he’s got a higher pedigree than our other centre back cover options, now Davies is injured. It's quite a poor league. Beyond Ajax/PSV, the rest are pretty much SPL level beyond Celtic/Rangers. Not good. But regardless ''pedigree'' has also been a poor argument anyway, Jamie Vardy had none before joining Leicester... not done too badly has he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean (hick) Saunders Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 51 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: Maybe so, and maybe I’m wrong. Still seems bizzare to me that a player of his pedigree couldn’t adapt to the championship. It’s irrelevant now because he’s going to go whichever way up, though I back him to be a success elsewhere, and I hope to God we have another CB lined up in January. As for Forsyth, I stand by it. He’s an absolute calamity at centre half. Doesn’t have the concentration levels to play there. Maybe he has a bad attitude. We don’t know. Comparing Forsyth contribution to DCFC to Claude Davis must be a joke right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 38 minutes ago, Dimmu said: I don't think it's bizarre at all. If we leave out everything happening off the pitch, personality etc., there's roughly 3 different aspects in the game needing adaptation. Tempo, tactics and technique. I'll give you couple examples. A tempo demands are very high in Championship compared to Eredivisie. Eredivisie beats Championship in tactics and the need for technical ability is about the same. Greek league beats both in technical ability, and loses to Championship in tempo etc.. So, sometimes these moves works out, sometimes not. Albentosa had great reviews from La Liga and that's hardly worse league than Championship. But it certainly is different and IMO the tempo is the hardest part of the game to adapt to. And one last obvious example. Our players didn't adapt to Cocu's tactical demands that well. But with PSV, the result was different story. As such, Rooney is good fit with his workrate demands and simple football. Good person-job-fit if you want. Yeah, fair comments. Sometimes players just don’t fit for whatever reason. Still disappointing, because I think there’s talent there. Still, he was a free transfer, so it’s not exactly a disaster that he hasn’t worked out. We move on I guess, hopefully we have someone decent lined up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, Ellafella said: Absolutely. Dutch Mike is the victim of a very poor judgement in my view. There's no way he'd ever have what it takes to compete in Championship football. Simple but obvious fact. Feel sorry for him...but wonder if he'd ever watched the English game before committing himself? We could note cope with the tempo of Leeds. Newcastle the other could not cope either. Another level of fitness required for big tempo change. Evidence of that last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, Rampage said: The defence was unrecognisably organised last night compared with three months ago. Actually who was responsible for reorganising it as all the staff were there three months ago. Seems unbelievable that it could be improved so much so quickly. Not to detract from the coaching staff, who absolutely deserve praise, but I think you can attribute a lot of this to the return of Bielik in CDM. One goal conceded in the 5 games he started in defensive mid - that’s no coincidence. He provides a much much better shield for the defence than Rooney and Bird did earlier in the season. The number of interceptions he makes is outstanding. Means the defence are under much less pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, Andicis said: It's quite a poor league. Beyond Ajax/PSV, the rest are pretty much SPL level beyond Celtic/Rangers. Not good. But regardless ''pedigree'' has also been a poor argument anyway, Jamie Vardy had none before joining Leicester... not done too badly has he? I don’t think there’s many leagues outside the top six that are much better myself. FWIW I agree that pedigree isn’t necessarily a good barometer to use. I’m by no means saying Te Weirik is certainly a good player. I’m just saying he might be, and I’d have liked to see a bit more of him. Ultimately though, Wisdom and Clarke are performing well together, at least for the time being, so I’m not that bothered, just a little disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said: Maybe he has a bad attitude. We don’t know. Comparing Forsyth contribution to DCFC to Claude Davis must be a joke right? Maybe, but I don’t think so. I wasn’t comparing Forsyth’s contribution to DCFC to Claude Davis. He’s been probably our best left back of the past decade. I’m comparing him as a centre back to Claude Davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: I’m just saying he might be, and I’d have liked to see a bit more of him. And risk shipping goals and losing games? After you Claude! ? Two Championship managers don't rate him. Plus a committee. But yeah as you say he might be good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean (hick) Saunders Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 I don’t get it... ”What is it?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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