Retro_RAM Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 I still cannot see if we asked for approval beforehand how they could possibly enforce this. It's like going in to the shop and confirming something is free with the shopkeeper and than getting done for stealing once you've left the shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 1 hour ago, ilkleyram said: Not necessarily impossible though @Rampage. If you accept that 12 points represents 4 losses then bear in mind that the clubs that reached the play offs this season lost 13 matches (Brentford), 12 matches (Swansea) and 11 matches (Cardiff and Fulham). Leeds lost 9 and WBA 7. What we would have to do is to have a top two type of season to get into the play offs for sure and once you're in and around the top then pressure can do funny things with other clubs, as Swansea found out this year. The advantage we will have is that we will know the situation from the outset I think we should ask for a 12 point deduction every year so that we can gain an advantage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkleyram Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 39 minutes ago, Spanish said: I think we should ask for a 12 point deduction every year so that we can gain an advantage I’d prefer us just to have a top one year with no reductions ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 10 hours ago, Spanish said: I think we should ask for a 12 point deduction every year so that we can gain an advantage Could have been 21 points so we've got the psychological advantage too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 10 hours ago, Spanish said: I think we should ask for a 12 point deduction every year so that we can gain an advantage I think it's only fair to to the mortal teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodley Ram Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 ? I think the EFL should give us points for being plonkers . in realty I would have thought that they would have a think about this so that we don't appeal or sue them. A 12 point deduction for next season would not be acceptable as we were not in the same situation as Wednesday. so if we missed automatic promotion by 12 points (that have been deducted) would and could we sue the EFL for £100m in lost earnings? A case in the civil courts is based on the balance of probability so in effect 51% likelihood that the EFL agreed and knew to what Derby did. Does the EFL fancy those odds, not sure I would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 12 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said: ? I think the EFL should give us points for being plonkers . in realty I would have thought that they would have a think about this so that we don't appeal or sue them. A 12 point deduction for next season would not be acceptable as we were not in the same situation as Wednesday. so if we missed automatic promotion by 12 points (that have been deducted) would and could we sue the EFL for £100m in lost earnings? A case in the civil courts is based on the balance of probability so in effect 51% likelihood that the EFL agreed and knew to what Derby did. Does the EFL fancy those odds, not sure I would Although as I understand it in civil court if it's marginally one more than the other the judge can adjust the award to reflect that. Perhaps one of the forum legal eagles can advise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSD Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 I've been trying to picture as if it was a work scenario. An employee gaining an approval from a manager and then the company overriding the decision and then disciplining the employee. Surely in that case the manager (EFL staff who approved this) will be the one in the wrong, they allowed the transaction to happen, that is their liability as far as I'm concerned. If it was a criminal court case this would have been thrown out before it even began. The club havent covered anything up. Bent the rules possibly but the EFL were fully aware of the club's financial conduct and they approved the damn thing! It's the wrong party being accused of wrongdoing. I'm tired of the BS. If the EFL wins this case, I give up with FFP. Complete shambles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaftesbury Street Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 15 minutes ago, SouthStandDan said: I've been trying to picture as if it was a work scenario. An employee gaining an approval from a manager and then the company overriding the decision and then disciplining the employee. Surely in that case the manager (EFL staff who approved this) will be the one in the wrong, they allowed the transaction to happen, that is their liability as far as I'm concerned. If it was a criminal court case this would have been thrown out before it even began. The club havent covered anything up. Bent the rules possibly but the EFL were fully aware of the club's financial conduct and they approved the damn thing! It's the wrong party being accused of wrongdoing. I'm tired of the BS. If the EFL wins this case, I give up with FFP. Complete shambles. I said when it happened - if you apply this logic to any courtroom/ business it will get laughed out of the room. If there is any points deduction it will be disputed and this will go on and on and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackworthRamIsGod Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 I notice the EFL still havent realised details on how it intends to protect clubs for the foreseeable given the current circumstances, absolutely laughable. Also with the case of Wigan, why are football clubs/players/fans being punished for dodgy owners taking over? The EFL have allowed people who clearly didnt have the finances to take over Wigan, the owners have allowed Wigan to go into admin and now the club will be asset stripped. Instead of punishing the club, if any club goes into Admin the owners should be hit with an immediate 50 million pound fine, payable by them and they should be banned from football for something like 10 years. I wish I had the money, the standing and the time to take on the EFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 minute ago, MackworthRamIsGod said: I notice the EFL still havent realised details on how it intends to protect clubs for the foreseeable given the current circumstances, absolutely laughable. Also with the case of Wigan, why are football clubs/players/fans being punished for dodgy owners taking over? The EFL have allowed people who clearly didnt have the finances to take over Wigan, the owners have allowed Wigan to go into admin and now the club will be asset stripped. Instead of punishing the club, if any club goes into Admin the owners should be hit with an immediate 50 million pound fine, payable by them and they should be banned from football for something like 10 years. I wish I had the money, the standing and the time to take on the EFL. The EFL is to football clubs as Harold Shipman was to the elderly. They both come under the guise and a position to 'help' but are secretly and maliciously killing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 57 minutes ago, Ambitious said: The EFL is to football clubs as Harold Shipman was to the elderly. They both come under the guise and a position to 'help' but are secretly and maliciously killing them. Not sure that quite works. Shipman didn't kill his patients because he was totally incompetent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 hour ago, MackworthRamIsGod said: I notice the EFL still havent realised details on how it intends to protect clubs for the foreseeable given the current circumstances, absolutely laughable. Also with the case of Wigan, why are football clubs/players/fans being punished for dodgy owners taking over? The EFL have allowed people who clearly didnt have the finances to take over Wigan, the owners have allowed Wigan to go into admin and now the club will be asset stripped. Instead of punishing the club, if any club goes into Admin the owners should be hit with an immediate 50 million pound fine, payable by them and they should be banned from football for something like 10 years. I wish I had the money, the standing and the time to take on the EFL. They have released the official ball to be used in the EFL in 2020/21 though...priorities and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Woodley Ram said: ? I think the EFL should give us points for being plonkers . in realty I would have thought that they would have a think about this so that we don't appeal or sue them. A 12 point deduction for next season would not be acceptable as we were not in the same situation as Wednesday. so if we missed automatic promotion by 12 points (that have been deducted) would and could we sue the EFL for £100m in lost earnings? A case in the civil courts is based on the balance of probability so in effect 51% likelihood that the EFL agreed and knew to what Derby did. Does the EFL fancy those odds, not sure I would Sadly, as mere fans, it’s not up to us to say whether a 12 point deduction is acceptable or not. Our alleged crimes are indeed different to Wednesday’s but that doesn’t mean we’ll get off Scot free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 18 hours ago, ilkleyram said: Not necessarily impossible though @Rampage. If you accept that 12 points represents 4 losses then bear in mind that the clubs that reached the play offs this season lost 13 matches (Brentford), 12 matches (Swansea) and 11 matches (Cardiff and Fulham). Leeds lost 9 and WBA 7. What we would have to do is to have a top two type of season to get into the play offs for sure and once you're in and around the top then pressure can do funny things with other clubs, as Swansea found out this year. The advantage we will have is that we will know the situation from the outset Still makes a tough task tougher. but what an amazing FU to the EFL it would be to take the points deduction, trounce the league and still get promoted as champions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodley Ram Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 16 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: Sadly, as mere fans, it’s not up to us to say whether a 12 point deduction is acceptable or not. Our alleged crimes are indeed different to Wednesday’s but that doesn’t mean we’ll get off Scot free. i agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackworthRamIsGod Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 Just out of curiosity, how many charges made by the EFL have resulted in the club being not guilty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKWORTHRAM Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 I wouldn't be surprised if we have an investor and signings lined up. Everything hinges on this. A fine is a possibility. Nobody wants to invest in something that could be about to get a huge fine. They'll wait till after when Mel's paid it. Transfer embargo wouldn't be ideal either. They're investing to push us on to the Premier League and the money that generates. Which will be even more difficult if we can't sign anyone or get a points deduction. If this is resolved in out favour by the end of this week I'd be expecting some action after really. Not ITK. Purely speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said: Just out of curiosity, how many charges made by the EFL have resulted in the club being not guilty? Not sure as we are still awaiting the outcome of the first charge, raised in 1884. Outcome expected by the end of the year with any penalty to be levied in 2027. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Ambitious said: The EFL is to football clubs as Harold Shipman was to the elderly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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