v Huddersfield Town (H) - Matchday Thread

[Jourdan]

Just now, ossieram said:

Holmes was injured.

So surely Knight would have been a more logical sub?

[biellaram]

4 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I'm just speaking about Bogle. Even though I think he is handling Bogle poorly, I'm not suggesting that applies to all young players at the club.

Max Bird is evidence of that. He is doing brilliantly. He has deserved to start every game since Charlton at home.

And in fairness, when he was dropped for the Hull game for Huddlestone, I questioned that too, so it's not just Bogle's case I am defending.

I generally think Cocu makes a lot of unnecessary changes that prove to be more disruptive than beneficial, especially for the young players.

So, do you really not think the highlight of the season has been the emergence of the young players and that Cocu has supported their development? 

[GrimsbyRam]

Not long back from the game and some thoughts as follows:-

1. Was Never going to be a pleasing game on the eye with the conditions (wind in particular);

2. Thought Cocu got the selection correct at full back(s) today. Wisdom is fast becoming our best defender. So solid.

3. Holmes going off was a massive blow, some many times he created a triangle with wisdom and waghorn on the right. When he went off we did not have any movement going forwards.

4. The Shinnie substitution was the wrong one. Knight should have been brought on for his energy. He has been very unlucky to be benched.

5. Martin, Waghorn, Rooney all advanced does not work as there is not enough pace. 

6. Set pieces or mistakes are costing us massively. Bogle (again) today - firstly for his terrible header (Chris Martin would have been proud of that knock down) and then for allowing their player inside.

7. We desperately need a keeper. Roos whilst making a couple of saves should not have been beaten at the front post. His position continues to be untenable with fans cheering/jeering every catch. For his own career he needs a move.

8. Cocu - interesting to here post match comments re: Bogle. Sounds like he has started to believe the hype from Jan transfer market....first time he has been specific in criticism (particularly relevant when you think about how he responded about Marriott).
 

 

[goldstar]

Well that was back to square one. Slow, ponderous and lethargic. Most of the players looked like they didn't even want to be there. No one getting into space which meant it was like a hot potato. Reluctant to go down the wing and put crosses in and back to what we saw a few weeks ago. 

Bogle demonstrating one of our biggest weaknesses. No thought process behind the headers/passes we make, just pure stupidity. Not a clearance header or directed to another Derby player, just getting his head on it so it assists a Huddersfield player. Not impressed with him this season, looks petulant and is nowhere near as good defensively as some make him out to be. 

[Spanish]

2 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

I saw. 

Seem to walk off it fine, didn’t look in any sort of pain, discomfort or anything to suggest he had done himself an injury 

On tv clearly injured.  On this ocasión you really wrong to state it was anything else

[Jourdan]

22 minutes ago, S8TY said:

Lets be honest you just don't like or rate Cocu though Jourdan....Bogle was rightfully dropped and bringing him on was also a mistake.....has cost us goal after goal but thats ok lets not damage his confidence by actually dropping him

I'm just saying it as I see it. I give credit when it's there to be given and question things that are there to be questioned. I'm the same with every manager we've ever had.

I have nothing against Cocu at all. In this thread alone, I've been accused of having a personal crusade against him, pinning things on him, disliking him, not rating him. So many comments of this ilk are coming out when it's blatantly not true.

I comment on his performance as Derby County manager, plain and simple. If he does things well, I say so. If he does things not so well, I say so too.

People are carrying on as if I was crestfallen when we were beating Stoke 4-0. Nope, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Highlights on repeat well into Sunday afternoon.

What's the point of a forum if you can't give a different view?

 

[Big Trav]

Listening to cocu. I feel like he might drop bogle to u23 for a couple of games to sort of bring him back to earth. He spoke previously about how to get the best out of a youngster and mentality is a massive part of they want to go to the top. If cocu sorts our jaydens mentality out by calling him out it will probably do him the world of good. 

[angieram]

1 hour ago, Stripperg-ram said:

My first game of the season.

Please don't come back. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

? Sorry, couldn't resist. But you did pick our most laboured performance for a long time. I think the weather was only partly to blame and it is quite frustrating to see how poorly we play when teams are in our faces.

I am sure that Cocu is increasingly aware of this fact, hence today's defensive changes and I am also fairly sure that if Holmes and Wisdom hadn't gone off injured we would have eventually got the better of them. 

For those saying Lawrence was missing in the first half he was busy helping out defensively and his goal was (another) thing of beauty. This is why he starts every game - because he can produce goals like that in matches where we are struggling for impetus.

Today was not the game for Martin with yet another referee who seemed to be against us. Do you think this might be an unwelcome side-effect of Rooney's captaincy in that they appear to be determined not to let him influence them and are leaning too far the other way? I know that Huddersfield could have had a penalty as well as Martin but to ignore something so blatant was just bizarre, and would have changed the course of the game. Martin let himself down a bit after that with the petulant challenge and the game was ripe for his substitution; what a shame Marriott was even less effective and seemed to give away a string of very soft fouls that only helped Huddersfield. 

Some strange comments on here about Bogle; he has bucketloads of talent but if he is not going to apply himself defensively he is neither going to make a great championship player nor get the big money move to the Premier League he might eventually deserve. If Cocu has tried to drill this into him and it isn't working, then maybe his frustration showed through a little today in his post-match comments. He's only human.

On that note, Cocu, maybe you could have been a little braver too and brought Knight on instead of Shinnie. Again, I can understand the thinking as Knight has looked a little jaded in recent games and we know Shinnie can be very effective in matches where we need to compete with a pressing opponent.  He was a bit rusty, though and Rooney too looked to be ready for a break between games. That meant the midfield lacked our usual energy and it was interesting that when we did move the ball forward a little more quickly Bird was usually the instigator. He, along with Wisdom, Lawrence and Fozzy were the ones that caught my eye today.

All in all it just wasn't our day. The point is welcome and I am already looking forward to Fulham next weekend when we will hopefully get to see a bit more better football.  Let's hope that at least some of it is ours! 

[biellaram]

1 minute ago, Jourdan said:

I'm just saying it as I see it. I give credit when it's there to be given and question things that are there to be questioned. I'm the same with every manager we've ever had.

I have nothing against Cocu at all. In this thread alone, I've been accused of having a personal crusade against him, pinning things on him, disliking him, not rating Cocu. So many comments of this ilk are coming out when it's blatantly not true.

I comment on his performance as Derby County manager, plain and simple. If he does things well, I say so. If he does things not so well, I say so too.

People are carrying on as if I was crestfallen when we were beating Stoke 4-0. Nope, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Highlights on repeat well into Sunday afternoon.

What's the point of a forum if you can't give a different view?

 

Because today you’re making things up, forming an opinion on your musings, and then using this as an argument against Cocu....

Its a forum for opinion - but on this one, you’re just making stuff up. Opinions on your own invented theories....

[Ellafella]

3 hours ago, SaintRam said:

I reckon at least 80% of Marriott and Waghorn's passes to each other are off target. Marriott hopelessly misses a great opportunity to put Waghorn in a position to create a chance right at the death.

FT 1-1. Probably deserving of that. Another awful refereeing display. A very poor Derby performance though, as soon as Holmes had to go off we lost almost all competent transitional play.

Poor game. 2 sub-mediocre teams and another sub-standard referee. Very forgettable afternoon apart from the strike by Lawrence. Also there is a correlation between Curtis Davies playing centre back {instead of Wisdom} and Derby being slow and ponderous. 

[Sasha]

2 hours ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

I thought PC was spot on, concentrate and defend, he is the RB. When there is an opportunity and cover from midfield, attack. He said that the coaches are trying to show him what is expected of his postion. If he gets it he will be some player. As a converted winger he can go forward just need a few tweaks defending. Last year he played with one of  the best LB ever, also a converted winger, he could do both attack and defend. Lets hope he picked up a few tips from Ashley Cole.

If these players had to earn a living in the real world using their brain.... Minimum wage 

[Srg]

Just now, Ellafella said:

Poor game. 2 sub-mediocre teams and another sub-standard referee. Very forgettable afternoon apart from the strike by Lawrence. Also there is a correlation between Curtis Davies playing centre back {instead of Wisdom} and Derby being slow and ponderous. 

100%. And it’s exacerbated when he has Wisdom and Forsyth at full back. Mentioned it in my post, but we have to accept we aren’t good enough to have a solid looking defence and still be good at building from the back in attack. 

[Dimmu]

Everyone is talking about how we were poor but I'd rather say that they made us look poor. Lot's of pressure to our shaky back four and cutting the passes to Bird and Rooney. We couldn't find an answer to that and in the end we can be happy with the point.

Hats off when it's due.

[desirelines]

Just saw the highlights. Feel bad that Waghorn missed that header to make it 2-0. I think Roos's career at Derby is officially over. 

[Srg]

13 minutes ago, Dimmu said:

Everyone is talking about how we were poor but I'd rather say that they made us look poor. Lot's of pressure to our shaky back four and cutting the passes to Bird and Rooney. We couldn't find an answer to that and in the end we can be happy with the point.

Hats off when it's due.

6 of 1... took one look at the back line we put in and the lack of pace on the team sheet and the whole team pushes on 20 yards. 

[rammieib]

32 minutes ago, GrimsbyRam said:

Not long back from the game and some thoughts as follows:-

1. Was Never going to be a pleasing game on the eye with the conditions (wind in particular);

2. Thought Cocu got the selection correct at full back(s) today. Wisdom is fast becoming our best defender. So solid.

3. Holmes going off was a massive blow, some many times he created a triangle with wisdom and waghorn on the right. When he went off we did not have any movement going forwards.

4. The Shinnie substitution was the wrong one. Knight should have been brought on for his energy. He has been very unlucky to be benched.

5. Martin, Waghorn, Rooney all advanced does not work as there is not enough pace. 

6. Set pieces or mistakes are costing us massively. Bogle (again) today - firstly for his terrible header (Chris Martin would have been proud of that knock down) and then for allowing their player inside.

7. We desperately need a keeper. Roos whilst making a couple of saves should not have been beaten at the front post. His position continues to be untenable with fans cheering/jeering every catch. For his own career he needs a move.

8. Cocu - interesting to here post match comments re: Bogle. Sounds like he has started to believe the hype from Jan transfer market....first time he has been specific in criticism (particularly relevant when you think about how he responded about Marriott).
 

 

1) Correct

2) Haha - watch the Bristol game to see this isn’t true but if you caveated this by saying full back then I’m more comfortable with him there.

3) He’s an auto pick now

4) Correct. Bad tactical move by Cocu.

5) Yes but a few weeks ago before the Stoke game we had the three tanker ships playing and that worked out. However more often than not it won’t. Defenders dream knowing no one will run in behind.

6) Correct but that’s because we have poor defensive players. That’s not going to change until there are new players in the club.

7) Only saw how bad that mistake was when watching the highlights. Jesus wept. He will be gone in the summer.

8. No issue with the comments. I’m pleased to see a manager call it as it is.

[NottsRam77]

1 hour ago, Srg said:

On the face of it, he could have worked - not in the pace department like. Guess we were desperately let down by the likes of Jozefzoon and Bennett, and Marriotts inconsistent fitness. 

Just have to look at huddersfield today and they have several of the type of player we desperately need going forward. 

Agree mate 

[rammieib]

Shinnie to Bird to Shinnie to Davies to Clarke to Forsyth to Shinnie to Bird to Davies to Roos to Clarke to Shinnie.

Yawn.

Hopefully Cocu learns, we move on.

Well played Wisdom and Lawrence for me.

[S8TY]

23 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I'm just saying it as I see it. I give credit when it's there to be given and question things that are there to be questioned. I'm the same with every manager we've ever had.

I have nothing against Cocu at all. In this thread alone, I've been accused of having a personal crusade against him, pinning things on him, disliking him, not rating him. So many comments of this ilk are coming out when it's blatantly not true.

I comment on his performance as Derby County manager, plain and simple. If he does things well, I say so. If he does things not so well, I say so too.

People are carrying on as if I was crestfallen when we were beating Stoke 4-0. Nope, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Highlights on repeat well into Sunday afternoon.

What's the point of a forum if you can't give a different view?

 

But IMO you see a lot of things you don't agree with as Cocu errors....today before the game you posted that dropping Bogle was not good for the lad but it was justified as i thought Wisdom played well....Bogle comes on and makes a weak header and Roos and Davies contribute towards an easy equaliser for them ( and fully deserved IMO ) but then its still Cocu's fault???

Can you not at least see that Bogle although young and yes still learning has cost us goals and therefore by being dropped could be seen as justifiable ?

Then the fact that Cocu singles him out after the game may insinuate that our manager maybe trying a different method or is genuinely getting a bit peeved that Bogle keeps making basic errors as does Roos for the record but as Cocu said it is never one error there are sometimes 3 or 4 leading to a goal...he is right to say this because it is a fact.

If we continue to ship soft defendable goals Jourdan it will be Cocu himself who will be judged so he has to do what he thinks is right and if he leaves him out it is for a reason.

It must be frustrating to keep shipping soft goals....we as fans get frustrated and yet we cannot do anything about it....Cocu can....but all i am saying is whatever our manager does you seem to jump straight onto the negative aspect and any situation can be looked at in different ways...if he had left Bogle in today and we had lost say 2-1 with a couple of errors by him you would be saying it was Cocus fault for not leaving him out when he needs a break so he leaves him out and we are ok at 1-0...he brings him on and unfortunately the young lad makes another error and it is Cocu's fault again!! what about the player himself making error after error??

[Gritstone Ram]

30 minutes ago, angieram said:

Please don't come back. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

? Sorry, couldn't resist. But you did pick our most laboured performance for a long time. I think the weather was only partly to blame and it is quite frustrating to see how poorly we play when teams are in our faces.

I am sure that Cocu is increasingly aware of this fact, hence today's defensive changes and I am also fairly sure that if Holmes and Wisdom hadn't gone off injured we would have eventually got the better of them. 

For those saying Lawrence was missing in the first half he was busy helping out defensively and his goal was (another) thing of beauty. This is why he starts every game - because he can produce goals like that in matches where we are struggling for impetus.

Today was not the game for Martin with yet another referee who seemed to be against us. Do you think this might be an unwelcome side-effect of Rooney's captaincy in that they appear to be determined not to let him influence them and are leaning too far the other way? I know that Huddersfield could have had a penalty as well as Martin but to ignore something so blatant was just bizarre, and would have changed the course of the game. Martin let himself down a bit after that with the petulant challenge and the game was ripe for his substitution; what a shame Marriott was even less effective and seemed to give away a string of very soft fouls that only helped Huddersfield. 

Some strange comments on here about Bogle; he has bucketloads of talent but if he is not going to apply himself defensively he is neither going to make a great championship player nor get the big money move to the Premier League he might eventually deserve. If Cocu has tried to drill this into him and it isn't working, then maybe his frustration showed through a little today in his post-match comments. He's only human.

On that note, Cocu, maybe you could have been a little braver too and brought Knight on instead of Shinnie. Again, I can understand the thinking as Knight has looked a little jaded in recent games and we know Shinnie can be very effective in matches where we need to compete with a pressing opponent.  He was a bit rusty, though and Rooney too looked to be ready for a break between games. That meant the midfield lacked our usual energy and it was interesting that when we did move the ball forward a little more quickly Bird was usually the instigator. He, along with Wisdom, Lawrence and Fozzy were the ones that caught my eye today.

All in all it just wasn't our day. The point is welcome and I am already looking forward to Fulham next weekend when we will hopefully get to see a bit more better football.  Let's hope that at least some of it is ours! 

Spot on Angie although I thought Huddersfield goal was more influenced by the wind and caught Bogle out and he made a mistake. I don’t even think Roos put his hands up to stop the shot for the goal but then minutes later made a save to keep us level. I suppose a quality keeper would save both. I think the weather affected us more second half than Huddersfield first half. Lawrence’s strike was top draw probably better than the one at Swansea last week. I came away disappointed and felt we dropped two points today.