v Huddersfield Town (H) - Matchday Thread

[Comrade 86]

Yeah, opinions are what the forum is all about, yada, yada, yada, but repeating the same mantra dozens of times over a period of hours, all on the same thread, is mind-numbingly tedious for everyone, especially if it is nothing more than back-of-a-fag-packet psyche profiling offered with literally zero supporting evidence. 

 

[NottsRam77]

43 minutes ago, Spanish said:

On tv clearly injured.  On this ocasión you really wrong to state it was anything else

I’m sceptical maybe it’s my Nature

I think he took a knock but because we have a right back on the bench that needs to be eased back into form he made the change 

I wager widom is fully fit for the next game  

[Gisby]

Opinions opinions opinions but let’s not overlook our managers credentials.... 20 years a pro footballer, 100+ caps for Holland, 11 years assistant/full time manager, 3 league titles etc etc etc and yet some of us on here question how he is handling & developing our young players???? Really??? If the likes of Jayden Bogle don’t take notice of his guidance & advice then more fool them, they don’t deserve the career that awaits them. Let’s let our manager get on with doing what he’s paid to do ...... Rome wasn’t built in a day and all that ..... in Philip I trust .... who on here can say they know better??? 

[jono]

1 hour ago, superzak said:

Lets just get this straight i could have saved that huddersfield goal and im 61.The angle was that tight he only had a small area between the sticks to aim at,  stand tall and the ball had got to hit the keeper. What did our useless keeper do...sit on his ass  ...

But you wouldn’t and could have made the save he did even if you were 21 ... come on, play the game

[S8TY]

46 minutes ago, angieram said:

Some strange comments on here about Bogle; he has bucketloads of talent but if he is not going to apply himself defensively he is neither going to make a great championship player nor get the big money move to the Premier League he might eventually deserve. If Cocu has tried to drill this into him and it isn't working, then maybe his frustration showed through a little today in his post-match comments. He's only human.

Spot on angieram

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Gisby said:

If the likes of Jayden Bogle don’t take notice of his guidance & advice then more fool them, they don’t deserve the career that awaits them. Let’s let our manager get on with doing what he’s paid to do ....

Thing is it isn't necessarily what you say but how you say it.

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

46 minutes ago, Sasha said:

If these players had to earn a living in the real world using their brain.... Minimum wage 

If most of us had to earn a living playing football we' d have no wage

[Gisby]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

Thing is it isn't necessarily what you say but how you say it.

And you don’t think he hasn’t already come across half a dozen or a dozen Jayden Bogles in his career already?? Please don’t patronise the guy by suggesting he can’t differentiate between those young players who need an arm around their shoulder & those who need a rocket because I’m not having it given the experience he has in the game. To assume this just doesn’t make sense and is disingenuous. 

[Spanish]

5 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

I’m sceptical maybe it’s my Nature

I think he took a knock but because we have a right back on the bench that needs to be eased back into form he made the change 

I wager widom is fully fit for the next game  

Maybe but he wasn’t fit to continue

fozzy had a throw in on the far side pointed to wisdom who was sitting down holding a region near hammies I think.  Immediately left the pitch holding the same area.  Could be precautionary but I am certain you are wrong to infer it was a tactical move.

[biellaram]

Hi Roy, how come you are so informed about how many times Cocu and his staff have talked to him about this and how they’ve gone about it each time and how the best way to talk to Bogle is? 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Gisby said:

And you don’t think he hasn’t already come across half a dozen or a dozen Jayden Bogles in his career already?? Please don’t patronise the guy by suggesting he can’t differentiate between those young players who need an arm around their shoulder & those who need a rocket because I’m not having it given the experience he has in the game. To assume this just doesn’t make sense and is disingenuous. 

Well we'll see won't we. As I said 'it's how you say it', so we should see Bogle take on board what Cocu has said - we need to keep him playing well, he's of great value either way (stay or sell)!

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, biellaram said:

Hi Roy, how come you are so informed about how many times Cocu and his staff have talked to him about this and how they’ve gone about it each time and how the best way to talk to Bogle is? 

I see the end product - what do you see mate?!

[Wolfie20]

14 minutes ago, Gisby said:

Opinions opinions opinions but let’s not overlook our managers credentials.... 20 years a pro footballer, 100+ caps for Holland, 11 years assistant/full time manager, 3 league titles etc etc etc and yet some of us on here question how he is handling & developing our young players???? Really??? If the likes of Jayden Bogle don’t take notice of his guidance & advice then more fool them, they don’t deserve the career that awaits them. Let’s let our manager get on with doing what he’s paid to do ...... Rome wasn’t built in a day and all that ..... in Philip I trust .... who on here can say they know better??? 

Oh, don't you worry - there'll be a few

[biellaram]

Roy.....do you really think you can judge the impact of someone’s communication skills by the way Bogle reacts? If it was that easy all teachers would have to do is impart information clearly!! Bogle has 50% of the responsibility for this kind of communication. How are you able to judge Cocu’s communication skills based on one players ability/willingness to or even speed of change to understand/respond to his message? 
To answer your question, I see a talented young player who has recently lost his way. I think it’s just a blip and temporary loss of form. But I’m wondering why Cocu made his comments. I’m not aware that he’s done this with anyone at Derby before? 

[BramcoteRam84]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

Time will tell. Let's see what happens, but the signs are not good. He didn't seem happy to be benched today and the knock on effect of that was he came on and looked flustered.

I'm not contradicting myself. I'm saying that different players often require a different style of man-management. It is a different point to saying everyone should be treated the same where their mistakes being highlighted are concerned. You can't single out and drop one player for his mistakes when other players are just as guilty.

At the end of the day, I think the changes stifled the team today. Both from the start and during the game. A week ago, I commented very positively on Cocu and the tweaks he made for the Swansea game.

People make out that I have some agenda against Cocu, but I'm actually being as balanced as I can. People just seem unwilling to accept when Cocu gets something wrong.

He hasn’t got this wrong.

He hasn’t called out players all season so it isn’t common place. He’s trying to make a point to the player. It’s clear Bogle hasn’t reacted well to being left out the team when his recent performances haven’t warranted staying in the team, he’s come on and been a major part in us conceding. He’s right to call him out but the way he has done it is spot on, highlighting he is a major talent and an important player for the club but needs to work on this aspect of his game to go on and have a great career. He also said Bogle needs to be open to learn and develop which also indicates Bogle maybe thinks he’s big time already and not focussing on his development. 

Bogle can listen to Cocu and make the next step to go on stellar career in the premier league or not and have a mediocre championship career. If he chooses not to listen to the advice of a former captain of Holland and first foreign captain of Barcelona someone who absolutely knows what it takes to succeed at an elite level - then he won’t achieve and we should take the money and move him on. 

Hope Bogle reacts positively as he has serious potential 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, biellaram said:

To answer your question, I see a talented young player who has recently lost his way. I think it’s just a blip and temporary loss of form. But I’m wondering why Cocu made his comments. I’m not aware that he’s done this with anyone at Derby before? 

Cocu has made the comments because he is the manager #simples

[biellaram]

Ha ha. He’s been the manager all season. So why now? And why Bogle? 
 

 

[Jourdan]

40 minutes ago, S8TY said:

But IMO you see a lot of things you don't agree with as Cocu errors....today before the game you posted that dropping Bogle was not good for the lad but it was justified as i thought Wisdom played well....Bogle comes on and makes a weak header and Roos and Davies contribute towards an easy equaliser for them ( and fully deserved IMO ) but then its still Cocu's fault???

Can you not at least see that Bogle although young and yes still learning has cost us goals and therefore by being dropped could be seen as justifiable ?

Then the fact that Cocu singles him out after the game may insinuate that our manager maybe trying a different method or is genuinely getting a bit peeved that Bogle keeps making basic errors as does Roos for the record but as Cocu said it is never one error there are sometimes 3 or 4 leading to a goal...he is right to say this because it is a fact.

If we continue to ship soft defendable goals Jourdan it will be Cocu himself who will be judged so he has to do what he thinks is right and if he leaves him out it is for a reason.

It must be frustrating to keep shipping soft goals....we as fans get frustrated and yet we cannot do anything about it....Cocu can....but all i am saying is whatever our manager does you seem to jump straight onto the negative aspect and any situation can be looked at in different ways...if he had left Bogle in today and we had lost say 2-1 with a couple of errors by him you would be saying it was Cocus fault for not leaving him out when he needs a break so he leaves him out and we are ok at 1-0...he brings him on and unfortunately the young lad makes another error and it is Cocu's fault again!! what about the player himself making error after error??

As the saying goes, the buck stops with the manager.

At the end of the day, if he wants to have a strong and stable defence, he has to let it develop. You can't repeatedly change it from game to game and expect results. Dropping Bogle is part of a wider Cocu problem. He makes too many changes and it can sometimes be counter-productive.

Our best performance of the season was Stoke at home - with Hamer in goal, Bogle and Forsyth at full back and Clarke and Wisdom at centre back. Is it going to work in the long term? No-one knows. Why? Because before it has had time to grow and develop, Cocu will change something.

Conceding goals might be a problem at the moment, but would you rather us play out boring 0-0s? Cocu seemed to have got the balance correct in recent weeks, only to go a few steps back today. Personally, I'd rather have a consistent team having a go and playing positively and conceding a few goals along the way. 3-2s are more exciting than 0-0s and 1-1s.

No-one is going to be upset if our approach is the right one.

I disagree that I see only negatives in what Cocu does. You are being selective there. Since the turn of the year, I've pointed out plenty of positives about Cocu and his management of the team, despite feeling there are managers with a different approach who could get even more out of this squad.

[BondJovi]

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Well we'll see won't we. As I said 'it's how you say it', so we should see Bogle take on board what Cocu has said - we need to keep him playing well, he's of great value either way (stay or sell)!

If Bogle doesn't take it on board is that still the fault of the manager?

If Cocu has spent all season being very careful and arm around shoulder and it isn't working, something else has to be tried. Sometimes you need that wake up call, maybe a dent to the confidence. Determination to prove wrong.

Likewise fans expecting young players to get better every season. Does it work that way? 

Who would have predicted that Bird would look like an accomplished midfielder alongside Rooney?

[Jourdan]

12 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

He hasn’t got this wrong.

He hasn’t called out players all season so it isn’t common place. He’s trying to make a point to the player. It’s clear Bogle hasn’t reacted well to being left out the team when his recent performances haven’t warranted staying in the team, he’s come on and been a major part in us conceding. He’s right to call him out but the way he has done it is spot on, highlighting he is a major talent and an important player for the club but needs to work on this aspect of his game to go on and have a great career. He also said Bogle needs to be open to learn and develop which also indicates Bogle maybe thinks he’s big time already and not focussing on his development. 

Bogle can listen to Cocu and make the next step to go on stellar career in the premier league or not and have a mediocre championship career. If he chooses not to listen to the advice of a former captain of Holland and first foreign captain of Barcelona someone who absolutely knows what it takes to succeed at an elite level - then he won’t achieve and we should take the money and move him on. 

Hope Bogle reacts positively as he has serious potential 

Time will tell...