v Huddersfield Town (H) - Matchday Thread

[Rambling]

12 minutes ago, Rambalin said:

Tight hamstring getting worse according too the managers interview.

The bench asked wisdom if he was ok, he replied tight hamstring

[nottingram]

24 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I think the comment was about the publically criticising bit which I thought was totally unacceptable when Nigel Clough used to exhibit the same behaviour especially in the heat of a post match interview

Was it really criticism? 

He said he came on and wasn’t focused and it cost us a goal and if he wants to have the career his talent deserves that can’t happen.

Dont think any of that is particularly out of order, especially if he has already made that clear in private and it is continuing to happen.

A player was dropped and has responded by making the same mistakes when he has been brought on. Cocu has every right to be very disappointed with that

[nottingram]

6 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Why not? The psychology of every player is different.

Considering Bogle is 19 and only in his second full season of professional football, maybe he does still need some taking care of and reassuring? I know I would feel better if I was able to play my way back into form.

He is still a teenager and you can’t expect a teenager to react to a style of management in the same way a seasoned professional would.

And that’s not to say that Cocu’s man management of young players in general is poor. Who knows? He could be fantastic behind closed doors.

But maybe Bogle is the one where he needs to be more mindful of his approach.

I think Cocu has been very patient. Up until now he has been pretty clearly first choice but his mistakes are costing us goals and points. That in turn costs jobs. 

His reaction to being dropped is to come on and continue making the same lazy mistakes. He’s a great player but he has to want to put 100% effort in because at the moment he is letting people down. Cocu has every right to be angry and disappointed especially if he has already been clear to Bogle in private what he expects.

[RamNut]

I also was hoping knight would appear for Holmes. Possibly even sub the sub @60 minutes because we needed more creativity.
credit to Danny cowley for his attacking substitutions. It got them their goal. It was bogle’s error but he then tried to blame Waghorn which was a bit poor.

 

[Mafiabob]

Deserved result. Thought Huddersfield were unlucky to not get a penalty too.....

Cowley brothers will keep them up and get them in the mix next season.

As for us, sloppy defending again costing us. Bird and Wisdom played well. Thought Waggy was our best attacking option today.

All in all bit of a meh game. 

 

 

[Tyler Durden]

Just now, nottingram said:

Was it really criticism? 

He said he came on and wasn’t focused and it cost us a goal and if he wants to have the career his talent deserves that can’t happen.

Dont think any of that is particularly out of order, especially if he has already made that clear in private and it is continuing to happen.

A player was dropped and has responded by making the same mistakes when he has been brought on. Cocu has every right to be very disappointed with that

I don't understand the logic that if a message has been communicated in private to an individual and it hasn't been absorbed then the learning gains more weight if it is then broadcast in public.

It clearly means that the message has not either been communicated effectively enough for the recipient to understand it or they plainly have understood it but are unable to action it or just plain ignored it.

Whatever the scenario there is still no need to repeat a private conversation in public. 

[Mafiabob]

Just now, RamNut said:

I also was hoping knight would appear for Holmes. Possibly even sub the sub @60 minutes because we needed more creativity.
credit to Danny cowley for his attacking substitutions. It got them their goal. It was bogle’s error but he then tried to blame Waghorn which was a bit poor.

 

I would have had Knight on for Holmes..... thought that bringing Shinnie on dulled our attacking intent a lot 

[NottsRam77]

53 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

Thought a draw was a fair result, huddlesfield are not a bad team.

roos - should not have been beaten on the inside for the goal

wisdom - played well and is in form at the moment but would prefer him at centre back

davies- no issue with him but we look better with wisdom at centre half as he gives me butterflies when on the ball

clarke - steady performance 

forsyth - played well in attack and defence 

Holmes - we missed him when he went off

Rooney- not as influential as normal but tried hard and has that quality

bird- played ok, got caught a couple of times

waghorn- god game and should have scored

lawrence - what a stunning goal

martin- never in it really

subs - bogle, he is out of form and it showed, same can be said of Marriott, shinnnie played well

best player for me was Forsyth and wisdom 

the huddlesfield number 7 looks some player

not the best game but the conditions were awe full lots of heavy wind and rain 

They’re 5 points off the drop, they’re not a good side either 

They were there for the taking but we didn’t do enough plain and simple we move on 

[nottingram]

2 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I don't understand the logic that if a message has been communicated in private to an individual and it hasn't been absorbed then the learning gains more weight if it is then broadcast in public.

It clearly means that the message has not either been communicated effectively enough for the recipient to understand it or they plainly have understood it but are unable to action it or just plain ignored it.

Whatever the scenario there is still no need to repeat a private conversation in public. 

Do you not think the second of your scenarios there would mean a different method should be applied? Or does Cocu keep him in and allow him to make the same mistakes? Or does he drop him, ignore him and see his value depreciate?

We are acting like it has been a massive calling out in public. He said his lack of focus cost us a goal. Hardly scathing and also completely true. Acting like he came on and didn’t would be downright bizarre.

[Srg]

We are in desperate need of pace in the summer. Attacking midfielders and strikers. Every team we come up against have them, and them coming off the bench. We have virtually nothing. 

[Mucker1884]

A few comments from someone who doesn't have the best eyesight nowadays, has never had the best concentration levels, rarely comments on individual talking points of the game, has not read any comments on here posted after 2pm, nor seen any replays/highlights, and for reference sits halfway up the upper tier in the NE corner...

Lawrence's goal was an absolute cracker, and had plenty of movement in it, leaving the keeper stranded.  Most certainly a training ground move.

I have absolutely no idea how Waggy's diving header (2nd half... after our goal?) did not end up in the back of the net.  I can only assume their keeper pulled of an absolute worldy of a save?

100% peno for them.  (For once, I had the best view in the whole stadium).  Yes there was clear and undoubted contact.  No it wasn't intentional, but most certainly clumsy.  Their guy didn't need to make a meal of it, as it was stonewall... and yet... heavens above!  Lucky escape, Derby!

Poor play by Bogle leading up to their goal.  Rule No1 for keepers is to keep the near post tight.  Roos definitely and consciously stepped left, having been duped into expected a square cross.  The gap he left was more than enough for the scorer to take advantage of.  Even I'd have put that away, despite the angle!  The goal itself was Roos' fault.  The scoring opportunity however, was most certainly down to Bogle.

Roos made up for it shortly after, coming out the victor in a one on one.  My mortgage had already been laid on a different outcome.  I am now officially homeless, but delighted we finished with a draw.  Priorities!  

Overall, a game worthy of average status.  Wasn't terrible, wasn't great.

Witnessed next to nothing relating to the weather, other than getting wet between Costco and the ground, and the NE corner flag occasionally bending to 80 degrees (but they're designed that way nowadays).  Certainly didn't warrant being called off 24/48 hours early, purely because of the forecast!

You're most welcome.  Have a good evening.

 

[Dimmu]

Just now, Srg said:

We are in desperate need of pace in the summer. Attacking midfielders and strikers. Every team we come up against have them, and them coming off the bench. We have virtually nothing. 

Pace and height. Unfortunately physical players who are able to play a bit as well tend to be quite expensive.

[DCFC Ram]

I though that they looked dangerous in the first half and in patches in the second. I dunno what they've been doing in other games but rated them today. Looking at chances/penno shouts, a draw wasn't a bad return IMHO.

Passing across the back continues to be suicidal.  I don't see what is meant to happen when we do it well (which we usually don't).

What's the big idea? anyone know?

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, DCFC Ram said:

I though that they looked dangerous in the first half and in patches in the second. I dunno what they've been doing in other games but rated them today. Looking at chances/penno shouts, a draw wasn't a bad return IMHO.

Passing across the back continues to be suicidal.  I don't see what is meant to happen when we do it well (which we usually don't).

What's the big idea? anyone know?

To retain possession? To build from the back? To avoid lumping pointless alehouse balls up the pitch to our strikers who are about 5 foot 9?

[Srg]

4 minutes ago, Dimmu said:

Pace and height. Unfortunately physical players who are able to play a bit as well tend to be quite expensive.

Then that should be the focus of our loans if we can’t find them elsewhere. I just hope Cocu sees it too, but I sometimes wonder when he puts Rooney with Martin, or Rooney alongside Huddlestone. It just doesn’t work. 

[Jourdan]

11 minutes ago, nottingram said:

I think Cocu has been very patient. Up until now he has been pretty clearly first choice but his mistakes are costing us goals and points. That in turn costs jobs. 

His reaction to being dropped is to come on and continue making the same lazy mistakes. He’s a great player but he has to want to put 100% effort in because at the moment he is letting people down. Cocu has every right to be angry and disappointed especially if he has already been clear to Bogle in private what he expects.

Every player in this team makes mistakes. It is the nature of playing at this level.

For every Bogle error you can say is costly, there are many others in the team who have made equally costly mistakes, but Cocu wouldn’t single them out.

Hamer has made a few glaring errors but he has stood by him. Forsyth and Clarke too. Waghorn has missed a hatful of game turning chances but he has stood by him. Lawrence and Holmes have had long spells of being ineffective and both were stood by too.

Bogle is very talented, but his game is still developing. He is not the finished article and he is still fleshing out his game. Mistakes are going to be made. You take the rough with the smooth, as you do with pretty much any player at this level.

Bogle is talented and expectations are high. But at the end of the day, he is 19 not 29. Be realistic about where he is in his development and that he is not going to be 9/10 every week.

[Gone]

Played ok, bit boring, bit slow, rubbish defending again. Last 3pm Saturday kick off this season, all a bit magnolia really. Roll on August #COYR ??⚽️

[nottingram]

1 minute ago, Jourdan said:

Every player in this team makes mistakes. It is the nature of playing at this level.

For every Bogle error you can say is costly, there are many others in the team who have made equally costly mistakes, but Cocu wouldn’t single them out.

Hamer has made a few glaring errors but he has stood by him. Forsyth and Clarke too. Waghorn has missed a hatful of game turning chances but he has stood by him. Lawrence and Holmes have had long spells of being ineffective and both were stood by too.

Bogle is very talented, but his game is still developing. He is not the finished article and he is still fleshing out his game. Mistakes are going to be made. You take the rough with the smooth, as you do with pretty much any player at this level.

Bogle is talented and expectations are high. But at the end of the day, he is 19 not 29. Be realistic about where he is in his development and that he is not going to be 9/10 every week.

So maybe Cocu is singling him out now as he thinks that’s the best way to get him to respond now? I get you are desperate to pin something on Cocu but you are contradicting yourself to do it. You say every player needs handing differently but are now implying everyone should be handled the same. A public rocket up the arse may be what Cocu feels Bogle needs?

I think the frustration is because he is so talented. He needs to make the most of that talent rather than going on to the pitch making lazy and half arsed mistakes. He is so good he can go pretty much as far as he wants in the game. He himself is currently the biggest barrier to that.

[BramcoteRam84]

25 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

A few comments from someone who doesn't have the best eyesight nowadays, has never had the best concentration levels, rarely comments on individual talking points of the game, has not read any comments on here posted after 2pm, nor seen any replays/highlights, and for reference sits halfway up the upper tier in the NE corner...

Lawrence's goal was an absolute cracker, and had plenty of movement in it, leaving the keeper stranded.  Most certainly a training ground move.

I have absolutely no idea how Waggy's diving header (2nd half... after our goal?) did not end up in the back of the net.  I can only assume their keeper pulled of an absolute worldy of a save?

100% peno for them.  (For once, I had the best view in the whole stadium).  Yes there was clear and undoubted contact.  No it wasn't intentional, but most certainly clumsy.  Their guy didn't need to make a meal of it, as it was stonewall... and yet... heavens above!  Lucky escape, Derby!

Poor play by Bogle leading up to their goal.  Rule No1 for keepers is to keep the near post tight.  Roos definitely and consciously stepped left, having been duped into expected a square cross.  The gap he left was more than enough for the scorer to take advantage of.  Even I'd have put that away, despite the angle!  The goal itself was Roos' fault.  The scoring opportunity however, was most certainly down to Bogle.

Roos made up for it shortly after, coming out the victor in a one on one.  My mortgage had already been laid on a different outcome.  I am now officially homeless, but delighted we finished with a draw.  Priorities!  

Overall, a game worthy of average status.  Wasn't terrible, wasn't great.

Witnessed next to nothing relating to the weather, other than getting wet between Costco and the ground, and the NE corner flag occasionally bending to 80 degrees (but they're designed that way nowadays).  Certainly didn't warrant being called off 24/48 hours early, purely because of the forecast!

You're most welcome.  Have a good evening.

 

I also watched the game in the NE Corner. Pretty much summed it up apart from the stone wall penalty on Martin in the first half. For once, no hint of Martin trying to win it, just plain wrestled to the floor. Peno non decisions even themselves out, they had as many chances as we did. Draw was right result. Frustrating day 

[Jourdan]

7 minutes ago, nottingram said:

So maybe Cocu is singling him out now as he thinks that’s the best way to get him to respond now? I get you are desperate to pin something on Cocu but you are contradicting yourself to do it. You say every player needs handing differently but are now implying everyone should be handled the same. A public rocket up the arse may be what Cocu feels Bogle needs?

I think the frustration is because he is so talented. He needs to make the most of that talent rather than going on to the pitch making lazy and half arsed mistakes. He is so good he can go pretty much as far as he wants in the game. He himself is currently the biggest barrier to that.

Time will tell. Let's see what happens, but the signs are not good. He didn't seem happy to be benched today and the knock on effect of that was he came on and looked flustered.

I'm not contradicting myself. I'm saying that different players often require a different style of man-management. It is a different point to saying everyone should be treated the same where their mistakes being highlighted are concerned. You can't single out and drop one player for his mistakes when other players are just as guilty.

At the end of the day, I think the changes stifled the team today. Both from the start and during the game. A week ago, I commented very positively on Cocu and the tweaks he made for the Swansea game.

People make out that I have some agenda against Cocu, but I'm actually being as balanced as I can. People just seem unwilling to accept when Cocu gets something wrong.