Cocu in or out?

[Oneram66]

Cocu out I'm afraid. A good solid manager generally has some direction. Cocu dosen't seem to have any. I don't think he has the respect from the players either. Too much childish ill discipline on and of the pitch for me. My morris, get rid now and no more celebrity managers thank you. It's time to get back to basics.

[RamNut]

If he fails to win any of the next three, the mood will turn increasingly toxic. 

he might walk in the summer even if mel is still supportive. New money often drives managerial changes. 

 

[RoyMac5]

15 minutes ago, lrm14 said:

Usually that's the case but the fact they're putting their money behind him and backing him in the transfer window suggests they're telling the #CocuOut brigade that he's going nowhere.

Not really. When Cocu signed it was as a 'continuation' of the Lampard team. So if he was sacked (not saying he will be btw) then the Board would just look for 'continuation' and so whoever had been signed would still be relevant.

[lrm14]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Not really. When Cocu signed it was as a 'continuation' of the Lampard team. So if he was sacked (not saying he will be btw) then the Board would just look for 'continuation' and so whoever had been signed would still be relevant.

I think they're pretty clearly saying he's going to be given time with this statement. I think you're definitely right about the continuation though, should things get a lot worse and we find ourselves looking for a new manager then it'll be in a similar mould. After the amount of money Mel's pumped into the academy along with the number expensive duds we've had recently, it makes sense to move us towards a more self-sufficient model.

[Shaftesbury st]

8 hours ago, Theres’s Only Wan Chope said:

He's not a miracle worker. This team is not good enough, we need to BUY players. We have Davies and Forsyth at centre back, and we have endless injuries. We have lost two current  champions league players plus Wilson who is playing Premier league football. The team last year without Mount put in some bad performances. We have lost Keogh who was a great defender for us. This team is a mid table side. 

Nonsense it should be doing much better, he’s not even setting a style of play. Tell me what it is you think he’s trying to do, I’m interested to know what it is he’s trying to achieve that’s the biggest concern

[Inverurie Ram]

In.

All I needed was the love you gave
All I needed for another day
And all I ever knew, Phillip Cocu

 

 

[ossieram]

Perhaps we should have another vote and carry on until we all agree with the vocal minority.

[May Contain Nuts]

3 hours ago, Shaftesbury st said:

Nonsense it should be doing much better, he’s not even setting a style of play. Tell me what it is you think he’s trying to do, I’m interested to know what it is he’s trying to achieve that’s the biggest concern

The attempted style of play is a patient, measured passing game which doesn't commit too many men forward (there's a valid argument to say not enough men forward given the preferred(?) formation has 2 holding midfielders) but when it sees/creates an opportunity to spring into life isn't afraid to take it through some more direct play.

I never want to see 2 DMs but when Bielik isn't fit we don't actually have any players who can play there on their own, so it becomes a necessity.

Take Rowettball, but instead of the primary function of the team being to sit back, keep 10 men behind the ball and wait for a counter attacking option it wants more control of the ball. We don't just want to let the opposition play their game and rely on a player like Weimann chasing long balls to the channel (when it works it works!) but if we can look at how the opposition play and exploit their weaknesses then hey, why not?

It doesn't exclude us playing attractive football. I've seen people call for Chris Hughton and cite how many goals his Brighton team scored in this league as proof that they were an entertaining team to watch, but he's in the same mould. Chris Hughton teams are the perfect example of horses for courses and Liam Rosenior is a protege of Hughton. If Derby currently had (in their prime)  Lewis Dunk (Clarke would do just as well), Anthony Knockaert (compare him to Lawrence, I dare you!) and Glenn Murray up front (compared to Martin 3 years, 2 unsuccessful loans and one serious health issue later) and I'm sure we'd be looking a healthier prospect.

I can hear you say it now, "Well why didn't we go for Hughton then?". Mainly, I assume (could be wrong), because a he's not interested in developing youth players? We may as well just ignore the academy altogether with him in charge. That's not what we want. Cocu has been given different targets and ambitions.

It's OK to say "let them worry about us!" but that doesn't always work. The best football we've played all decade was the 2013/14 Mac1 season, but when it came to the crunch (Mighty Boosh reference) we found ourselves lacking in just a few too many matches, some teams found it easy to play against us. The 2014/15 season had us playing a more measured, less gung-ho game and (until January/February and the en-masse injuries) and I firmly believe that we'd have won the league at a canter had we been able to pick the same line-up which got us top of the table* at Christmas (*citation needed).

Back to the present (hey, it is Christmas, I hope you have a fantastic one, none of this is personal!)

What Cocu wants to do and what players he has to do it with are worlds apart.

We could have spent the past 6 months developing a style which suits the players available (I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what that would be, exactly, and how the players available fit into it!) and be in a better position now, but if we have ambitions to be better than that then we've just wasted 6 months perfecting a style we don't want to take forward and one which is totaly the opposite of the one we want to lay out as a club, from the U15s to the U23s.

Take the Boro & Preston home games (results + performance) and the last match against Reading (performance, not result), take the good things from them and use them as a basis for your opinion on where he wants to take us. Put Clarke, Shinnie, Huddlestone, a fully fit Bielik, a fully fit Marriott back in the team, add Rooney, add another competent CB, add a more consistent winger than Lawrence into the team and we may well start to carry out 'the plan'.

If it comes to March 2019 and we still exhibit all of the problems we've seen in the past 3 months then, yes, I will start to worry. Until then, just relax! Ranting on the internet won't change anything!

There is a plan in place, regardless of current form, whether you can see it or not.

 

[May Contain Nuts]

(Obviously for March 2019 read March 2020! I'm slightly drunk, can you tell?)

[Van der MoodHoover]

On 22/12/2019 at 05:03, RoyMac5 said:

Waghorn, more dynamic and fluid? You're having a laugh! 

Fluidity may come with a few hours in the Joiners Roy.....?

[DesertRam]

Still think he should stay, and have another window or 2, we have to draw the line somewhere.

I'm prepared to write this season off, and look to the next, with an overall improvement in quality

and 2/3 good signings, plus 4/5 Academy youngsters should do it.

If we still had Mount, Wilson Tomori and Keogh,  we would probably be in the top 6 now!

[DCFC27]

49 minutes ago, DesertRam said:

Still think he should stay, and have another window or 2, we have to draw the line somewhere.

I'm prepared to write this season off, and look to the next, with an overall improvement in quality

and 2/3 good signings, plus 4/5 Academy youngsters should do it.

If we still had Mount, Wilson Tomori and Keogh,  we would probably be in the top 6 now!

Top of the league*

[steve bloomer]

I think he should stay and see the business done in the New year transfer window. If we've strengthened well then give him the summer to strengthen further and next season just hope it's much better. Failing that, sack him and give Rooney the job. 

[Carnero]

8 hours ago, ossieram said:

Perhaps we should have another vote and carry on until we all agree with the vocal minority.

That sounds familiar.

[richinspain]

8 hours ago, ossieram said:

Perhaps we should have another vote and carry on until we all agree with the vocal minority.

 I think that if we have another vote then the out vote will increase significantly. Which is a sad sign of our fan base unfortunately. We've played three (THREE) games since the vote was started. Yes, we've taken one point from those three games but nothing else has changed since. We've still got the same players. We've still got the same injuries.

 However some feel that those three games are enough to change their opinion that Cocu has been dealt a stinker of a hand. Yes, everyone has the right to change their minds but is three games with all the same problems sufficient? Reading was a terrible result, however the performance was much much better. Better finishing and a referee who can see a foul in the penalty area at both ends of the pitch would have produced a much different result.

Let's forget all that though. Let's listen to those that shout the most, or make flags demanding we sack the manager. F it! I think I'll join 'em! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, COCU OUT!

 Wait a minute, I'm a Ram, not a sheep! Give the bloke a chance FFS!

COYR.

[RamNut]

I was encouraged by the performance v Reading. For once the result doesn’t tell the story. 

Bielik is sloppy and clumsy at times, passing into touch, or getting caught in possession, but other than that we played well.

Keep playing like that and we’ll be ok. 

[ollycutts1982]

8 hours ago, Coconut said:

The attempted style of play is a patient, measured passing game which doesn't commit too many men forward (there's a valid argument to say not enough men forward given the preferred(?) formation has 2 holding midfielders) but when it sees/creates an opportunity to spring into life isn't afraid to take it through some more direct play.

I never want to see 2 DMs but when Bielik isn't fit we don't actually have any players who can play there on their own, so it becomes a necessity.

Take Rowettball, but instead of the primary function of the team being to sit back, keep 10 men behind the ball and wait for a counter attacking option it wants more control of the ball. We don't just want to let the opposition play their game and rely on a player like Weimann chasing long balls to the channel (when it works it works!) but if we can look at how the opposition play and exploit their weaknesses then hey, why not?

It doesn't exclude us playing attractive football. I've seen people call for Chris Hughton and cite how many goals his Brighton team scored in this league as proof that they were an entertaining team to watch, but he's in the same mould. Chris Hughton teams are the perfect example of horses for courses and Liam Rosenior is a protege of Hughton. If Derby currently had (in their prime)  Lewis Dunk (Clarke would do just as well), Anthony Knockaert (compare him to Lawrence, I dare you!) and Glenn Murray up front (compared to Martin 3 years, 2 unsuccessful loans and one serious health issue later) and I'm sure we'd be looking a healthier prospect.

I can hear you say it now, "Well why didn't we go for Hughton then?". Mainly, I assume (could be wrong), because a he's not interested in developing youth players? We may as well just ignore the academy altogether with him in charge. That's not what we want. Cocu has been given different targets and ambitions.

It's OK to say "let them worry about us!" but that doesn't always work. The best football we've played all decade was the 2013/14 Mac1 season, but when it came to the crunch (Mighty Boosh reference) we found ourselves lacking in just a few too many matches, some teams found it easy to play against us. The 2014/15 season had us playing a more measured, less gung-ho game and (until January/February and the en-masse injuries) and I firmly believe that we'd have won the league at a canter had we been able to pick the same line-up which got us top of the table* at Christmas (*citation needed).

Back to the present (hey, it is Christmas, I hope you have a fantastic one, none of this is personal!)

What Cocu wants to do and what players he has to do it with are worlds apart.

We could have spent the past 6 months developing a style which suits the players available (I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what that would be, exactly, and how the players available fit into it!) and be in a better position now, but if we have ambitions to be better than that then we've just wasted 6 months perfecting a style we don't want to take forward and one which is totaly the opposite of the one we want to lay out as a club, from the U15s to the U23s.

Take the Boro & Preston home games (results + performance) and the last match against Reading (performance, not result), take the good things from them and use them as a basis for your opinion on where he wants to take us. Put Clarke, Shinnie, Huddlestone, a fully fit Bielik, a fully fit Marriott back in the team, add Rooney, add another competent CB, add a more consistent winger than Lawrence into the team and we may well start to carry out 'the plan'.

If it comes to March 2019 and we still exhibit all of the problems we've seen in the past 3 months then, yes, I will start to worry. Until then, just relax! Ranting on the internet won't change anything!

There is a plan in place, regardless of current form, whether you can see it or not.

 

 

7 hours ago, Coconut said:

(Obviously for March 2019 read March 2020! I'm slightly drunk, can you tell?)

If the post was written while slightly intoxicated I tip my hat to you sir. Many Rams fans are not that rational when sober. A good well thought out post of which a mostly agree.

[thelovebelow]

8 hours ago, Coconut said:

The attempted style of play is a patient, measured passing game which doesn't commit too many men forward (there's a valid argument to say not enough men forward given the preferred(?) formation has 2 holding midfielders) but when it sees/creates an opportunity to spring into life isn't afraid to take it through some more direct play.

I never want to see 2 DMs but when Bielik isn't fit we don't actually have any players who can play there on their own, so it becomes a necessity.

Take Rowettball, but instead of the primary function of the team being to sit back, keep 10 men behind the ball and wait for a counter attacking option it wants more control of the ball. We don't just want to let the opposition play their game and rely on a player like Weimann chasing long balls to the channel (when it works it works!) but if we can look at how the opposition play and exploit their weaknesses then hey, why not?

It doesn't exclude us playing attractive football. I've seen people call for Chris Hughton and cite how many goals his Brighton team scored in this league as proof that they were an entertaining team to watch, but he's in the same mould. Chris Hughton teams are the perfect example of horses for courses and Liam Rosenior is a protege of Hughton. If Derby currently had (in their prime)  Lewis Dunk (Clarke would do just as well), Anthony Knockaert (compare him to Lawrence, I dare you!) and Glenn Murray up front (compared to Martin 3 years, 2 unsuccessful loans and one serious health issue later) and I'm sure we'd be looking a healthier prospect.

I can hear you say it now, "Well why didn't we go for Hughton then?". Mainly, I assume (could be wrong), because a he's not interested in developing youth players? We may as well just ignore the academy altogether with him in charge. That's not what we want. Cocu has been given different targets and ambitions.

It's OK to say "let them worry about us!" but that doesn't always work. The best football we've played all decade was the 2013/14 Mac1 season, but when it came to the crunch (Mighty Boosh reference) we found ourselves lacking in just a few too many matches, some teams found it easy to play against us. The 2014/15 season had us playing a more measured, less gung-ho game and (until January/February and the en-masse injuries) and I firmly believe that we'd have won the league at a canter had we been able to pick the same line-up which got us top of the table* at Christmas (*citation needed).

Back to the present (hey, it is Christmas, I hope you have a fantastic one, none of this is personal!)

What Cocu wants to do and what players he has to do it with are worlds apart.

We could have spent the past 6 months developing a style which suits the players available (I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what that would be, exactly, and how the players available fit into it!) and be in a better position now, but if we have ambitions to be better than that then we've just wasted 6 months perfecting a style we don't want to take forward and one which is totaly the opposite of the one we want to lay out as a club, from the U15s to the U23s.

Take the Boro & Preston home games (results + performance) and the last match against Reading (performance, not result), take the good things from them and use them as a basis for your opinion on where he wants to take us. Put Clarke, Shinnie, Huddlestone, a fully fit Bielik, a fully fit Marriott back in the team, add Rooney, add another competent CB, add a more consistent winger than Lawrence into the team and we may well start to carry out 'the plan'.

If it comes to March 2019 and we still exhibit all of the problems we've seen in the past 3 months then, yes, I will start to worry. Until then, just relax! Ranting on the internet won't change anything!

There is a plan in place, regardless of current form, whether you can see it or not.

 

I think that's the balance he's struggling with. We saw in some games there are no options further forward so created no changes. Conversely Reading away we had too many forward and conceded a penality. 

In my honest opinion, I think he's used to players with more technical ability and tactical know how. He started the season wanting one touch football, but soon abandoned that as soon as he realised the players were not up to it. 

He needs more his kind of players, technical players, before we'll see the real Cocu team we want to see. 

I can see that balance in the last few games, I'm sure he'll get there, sooner than later. 

[Derby blood]

Cocu in, not out not out but Cocu in  then we all turn around and shout we want our Cocu in. 

[Coneheadjohn]

Just bet on the Rams at 66/1 to get top 6 and 250/1 to go up.