Cocu in or out?

[IslandExile]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

See what? If they don't win some games they'll be relegated? 

See the way to play... Be more dynamic, more fluid. Waghorn also talked about it in his interview.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

7 minutes ago, Coconut said:

After Preston we played Fulham away. The only changes to the lineup were enforced - Shinnie out injured, Evans in. Bennett out injured, Waghorn in. Those changes matched the subs made against Preston 

I know our away performances are best blanked completely from memory, but it doesn't mean they didn't happen!

Fair point actually, you are right, it was the following home game (I think against QPR), where he changed it.

[May Contain Nuts]

7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

And that is 'the joke', if he'd wanted to try '5 at the back' then that was the game, not at home!

I do agree, actually. 

But he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't by some on here, whatever decision he makes.

[King Kevin]

I voted in originally despite long held reservations, yes the squad quality is poor and he has been dealt a bum hand but he should be getting more out of what he's got. Poor team selections ,some games dreadful lack of application, constant tinkering, etc etc. 

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

11 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

Excuse making. We have been contenders for five seasons, not just last season with Mount & co! 
 

name the players that do not have quality 

Davies/Forsyth weaker than Tomori/Keogh. Holmes/Lawrence as influential as they can be are not Wilson/Mount quality. Dowell hasn't made an impression. Paterson may be good but he's usually been injured. With that extra quality we finished 6th last year.

Having said that, if we find ourselves in the bottom three in January, I would expect the manager to go and half this team to not play again because that would be unacceptable.

[Paese]

Another away defeat. A better performance I thought, but still a 3-0 loss so can't really say too much. Not surprised by the reaction on here, I expected it when I logged on.

I still stand by my vote of sticking by him, I'm not going to change my mind overnight. I won't support replacing him before we even reach the January window. And even then, unless we find ourselves consistently in the bottom 3, I believe we stick by him for the summer as well. Like I've said previously, if we're this bad after he's had two windows and he's had more time then we can look at replacing. 

[May Contain Nuts]

17 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Fair point actually, you are right, it was the following home game (I think against QPR), where he changed it.

Yep, and at the time people said it was a silly decision, so I can't blame hindsight for it.

However I was fine with the idea of it at the time, when Bielik was named in the starting lineup. There's some logic behind trying Malone and Bogle as wing backs.

Bielik pulling out 5 minutes before kick off hurt us more than the tactical change.

I think we had one game since then when we tried 5 at the back again, and the wing backs actually got to play as wing backs, and it didn't work at all (I can't remember if Bielik was involved that time) so here I will use hindsight - don't try it again anytime soon!

[Owd miner]

16 minutes ago, King Kevin said:

I voted in originally despite long held reservations, yes the squad quality is poor and he has been dealt a bum hand but he should be getting more out of what he's got. Poor team selections ,some games dreadful lack of application, constant tinkering, etc etc. 

I agree wi thee . At end o day he is the Manager who is ultimately employed ta get best out of average players ... I've said fer a long time he sounds like a dead man walking ... I'm sure sum will cum on and defend him ... that's fair play but I see us going one way 

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

Just watched the highlights from yesterday and we looked like we played well, just unlucky. 
 

We will be fine come the end of the season, we won’t be relegated so forget about that. 
 

Anybody want to take the positives instead of just the negatives? Jason Knight looks a right player and I think will be brilliant for Derby. 
 

Sibley, again he is going to be the next Will Hughes given the right game time and our backing. 
 

Chill out people, Rome wasn’t built in a day and all that  

[RoyMac5]

29 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

See the way to play... Be more dynamic, more fluid. Waghorn also talked about it in his interview.

Waghorn, more dynamic and fluid? You're having a laugh! 

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

Just watched the highlights from yesterday and we looked like we played well, just unlucky. 

Against a poor Reading team! That's just the sort of thing that happens to teams that get relegated, they show bits and feel that they were unlucky but still they lose...

[superzak]

I think the next 2 away games are now pivotal of what goes on for the rest of the season...we beat Wigan and Charlton...start the new year with finances sorted and fresh optimism and then onto Jan 2nd...Barnsley must be quaking in their boots lol

[Sir Ramalot]

A manager with poor tactics and a visual lack of bite and passion doesn’t last long....

football is no longer a thing of entertainment - it is a financially orientated performance related business. If the results don’t come “transition” is a thing of imagination.

my bet is he will be gone after Boxing Day - it is simply unacceptable to have such a poor sequence of results.

my bet - for what it’s worth is that we will have Mac3 - until the end of the season....

 

[May Contain Nuts]

6 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Of course, every team in this division will have one or two standout players but look at the overall squads, do the likes of Preston, Sheffield Wednesday, Swansea, Blackburn, Millwall, Forest, Cardiff and Birmingham strike fear into you?

If someone had asked you to predict the table after 23 games, would you have had all of those clubs above us in the table? I know I wouldn’t have.

All of these clubs are performing better and making better use of their resources than we are, and it is so disappointing to see.

Within a long term plan, you still draw a line between what’s acceptable and what’s not. 

Just because Cocu is ‘developing a team and a philosophy over 3-4 years’, it shouldn’t mean he can get away with absolutely anything. He needs to be held to a higher standard.

Surely even you have to admit we are underachieving. The bottom six are closing in. Two or three bad results and 17th in the table becomes 20th in the table and then we are very much in a relegation battle.

Long term plan or not, that is not good enough for a manager of Cocu’s pedigree and this squad.

It just feels like you're ignoring the points made and shouting "NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!! LOOK AT THE OTHER CLUBS!!!"  down my earhole now tbh.

I couldn't give a stuff what other clubs are doing and what resources they've got, quite honestly. Everyone has their own set of circumstances to work with. None of them have had to deal with 3 loan players who carried them last season leaving, none of them have had to deal with the cataclysmic events of JoinersGate.

You say "every team in this division will have one or two standout players" - well we don't! You ask whether the other teams strike fear into me? No, not at all - it's the state of our squad strikes fear into me!

You constantly talk as if we've got a full pack of cards to choose from and make no concession for any of the circumstances we're facing.

If somebody had asked me to predict the table after 23 games when we had Keogh, Clarke & Shinnie available, if Bielik was consistently fully fit, if Marriott was always available, if Chris Martin hadn't scored just 4 goals in 2 years while on loan... I'd have said we might be around 12th, just needing to add a little bit of quality to push us towards contending for the play-offs.

With what we're working with right now? YES! I would fully expect quite a few of the teams mentioned to be above us!

Bored now!

[atherstoneram]

8 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

This has to be the definition of a straw man argument - you've received about 9 likes from other posters for attacking me on an argument which I never progressed in the first place which you would have noticed if you'd read my post properly.

But as long as it furthers your agenda to progress an argument I never even made then that's the main thing I suppose and also shows how quick other posters are to jump on an argument which again was never postulated at all. 

I've seen posters moaning about the melt down and over reaction quote unquote on here after another away defeat on a Saturday evening, perhaps the same posters need to take a leaf out of their own books and not contribute to said meltdown by knee jerking replies without even taking time to  understand the true import of what has actually been posted.

Perhaps it was the way it came across in your post that it was misconstrued, your comments and mine are aligned in the support of Cocu. I still believe it will come good. In Cocus 1st interview after taking the job said he had been watching videos of Derby and was delighted in taking over, the problem was the team he had watched in the videos was nothing like the team he inherited

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

In Cocus 1st interview after taking the job said he had been watching videos of Derby and was delighted in taking over, the problem was the team he had watched in the videos was nothing like the team he inherited

For me one of the problems is he's another manager playing systems (lots of them even in the same game!), not the squad he has.

[atherstoneram]

10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

For me one of the problems is he's another manager playing systems (lots of them even in the same game!), not the squad he has.

And therein lies the problem, the squad, the mish-mash of players other managers signed to play a certain style of football as they wanted and Cocu is left trying to find a system which suits 11 players the best as well as the system he wants the team to play. But then again that's what you get when you change manager season after season.

 I

[RoyMac5]

43 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

And therein lies the problem, the squad, the mish-mash of players other managers signed to play a certain style of football as they wanted and Cocu is left trying to find a system which suits 11 players the best as well as the system he wants the team to play. 

Play the team not the system. The mish-mash of players were still capable of Top 6 finishes. It's football not rocket science.

[atherstoneram]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

Play the team not the system. The mish-mash of players were still capable of Top 6 finishes. It's football not rocket science.

Change the record, yes they were but those players we had then have moved on, we were lucky last season to finish top 6 because we had 3 good loanees, if we hadn't have had them we would have been nowhere near

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

Change the record, yes they were but those players we had then have moved on, we were lucky last season to finish top 6 because we had 3 good loanees, if we hadn't have had them we would have been nowhere near

You change the record - look at the league table, that's where Cocu has us. You blame the players, well he's tried them all in all possible formations. Perhaps they think he's making it up as he goes along! Lots of teams in the Championship do well without 3 Prem loanees, oh but we do have one!