Hull City (A) Match Thread

[Tyler Durden]

19 minutes ago, blackNwhites said:

I doubt Cocu had anything to do with any transfers this summer, his input may have been we need this, this and this. The best that was available was presented and he's had to take it on the chin. He's not going to have known anything about Paterson, Clarke, Hamer or Dowell is he? Maybe Bielik? I also doubt we spent £8-10m on Bielik, more like £2.5m?

It's gonna be frustrating this year, but again, I'm confident we'll see steady improvement on the playing side and hopefully January we'll cover the defence area and maybe add a winger. We're not finishing top 6 this season. Not with the players we've lost.

 

Wishful thinking? Why you do you think that.

The quoted transfer fee varies anything from £8 million plus add one to £9.5 million but none are anywhere near the £2.5 million you've stated

If we've spent our transfer budget on one player who as yet is following in the footsteps of other big ticket transfers Tom Lawrence immediately springs to mind regards failure to live up to their transfer fee then someone at Derby needs a proper  reaming out.

[blackNwhites]

7 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Wishful thinking? Why you do you think that.

The quoted transfer fee varies anything from £8 million plus add one to £9.5 million but none are anywhere near the £2.5 million you've stated

If we've spent our transfer budget on one player who as yet is following in the footsteps of other big ticket transfers Tom Lawrence immediately springs to mind regards failure to live up to their transfer fee then someone at Derby needs a proper  reaming out.

I've seen them but they're just 'reported' sums, on transfermarkt it says £7.3m so maybe it's not that far wrong. Pretty much the going rate for any player that age these days.

It says £2.5m on football manager though so I'm going with that one ?.

I don't think he's going to be as disappointing as Lawrence though, who looks exactly the same player now as he did since his debut game. Literally no signs of improvement, can't always blame the coaching side for that though, he's gotta shoulder the blame himself for that. The only thing that has changed is he seems more aggressive, but not in a good way.

[angieram]

Where's the matchday thread gone?

I think some fans need to learn how to handle their disappointments a little better - the body language, other language and trooping out immediately after the second goal went in yesterday was so pitiful it made me laugh. 

I thought the first half was our most cohesive away half of the season so far, apart from the end product, where I would rate Huddersfield higher. Interesting that Dowell, who apparently does nothing, was part of those two performances.  For me, he is one of those players who helps the flow of the game, gets the midfield closer to the front line, without necessarily being spectacular. Bielik played really well, Holmes' touch is gradually coming back and Bogle is regaining energy going forward.

I was disappointed as usual with the end product, though how Hull kept the ball out of the net at the end of the half I don't know! I haven't seen it back yet as Quest chose not to show it as it didn't suit their narrative of Hull being the better team.

The beginning of the second half brought the goal that our play had deserved, and I still think that it was a good one. Lawrence had looked really bright and worked hard but his end product was poor, so an unexpected goal from a great bit of determination would have really boosted his confidence.  Unfortunately the referee,  who had done little to address Hull's persistent physicality against us, had other thoughts. Interesting that the Birmingham goal showed immediately before our game on Quest was a much more blatant foul than Lawrence's yet was given and not even deemed worthy of a mention. 

That one decision seemed to completely knock the stuffing out of us, so fragile is our confidence at the moment. 

Bogle, for me, was at fault for both Hull's goals. We don't have Keogh,  Huddlestone or Johnson, who all at times covered for his marauding up the pitch last season, and Bielik is not aware or quick enough to drop in when he does so. I like Bogle's enterprise going forward but he is primarily a full back who is doing very little defending. More of that later. 

Lowe couldn't get up to the cross (I don't think Malone would have done any better) and we are behind again. The noise from the Hull fans, who are usually pussycats rather than tigers, said it all. They were very relieved as they had been second best up to this point.

I thought Cocu's reaction to the goal was odd, bringing on Whitaker instead of Marriott while Martin was still on the pitch. It didn't really work and just felt for me like it was Whitaker's 'turn'. I now think we're destined never to see Marriott and Martin get a regular run on the pitch together,  what a shame. 

A second goal was threatening to come as our heads went down once again and it didn't take long. Game over. I don't think we had a real threat after that and I can't recall Marriott or Waghorn doing anything of note when the former did belatedly arrive on the pitch. If that guy isn't fit for 90 minutes at least play him from the start while we are still in the game rather than bringing him on at 80 minutes to chase lost causes! 

What caused our demise in the second half? Bielik ran out of legs (that guy needs to seriously work on his fitness), Holmes and Bogle too but in their cases they are working their way back from injury. Dowell also faded badly as was to be expected after such a long time out of the first team. All those could have been anticipated pre-match but we didn't seem prepared for it and I feel bringing on three forward players when we desperately needed extra legs in midfield was a mistake. Along with Marriott, Knight or Paterson were the subs for me but neither were in the squad.

So, the most frustrating thing for me about yesterday is that we lost a game which was clearly there for the taking. A combination of poor fitness, poor refereeing and poor tactics seemed to snatch it away from us. It's really disappointing and hard to look at the bigger picture in the middle of that disappointment. Hence this thread turning into yet another discussion about Cocu.

My take on that? I'd give him time, but in exchange for doing so I would be expecting him to try something different in the way he sets up the team rather than making the same mistakes game after game. I am really conservative when it comes to formations but I don't think we have the quality or speed in the defence now Keogh is out to persist with Bogle in a flat back four. 

So, either bring in a proper full back (Wisdom) or preferably go for a back three (utilising Wisdom or Forsyth) with Bogle and Lowe as wingbacks. An added bonus of the latter is we could then play Martin with Marriott up top and I'd be happy! 

If it doesn't work, then Cocu could turn round and tell us all he knew it never would - but at least we'd know. We aren't winning these games anyway so surely it's worth the risk?

[BondJovi]

3 minutes ago, angieram said:

Where's the matchday thread gone?

I think some fans need to learn how to handle their disappointments a little better - the body language, other language and trooping out immediately after the second goal went in yesterday was so pitiful it made me laugh. 

I thought the first half was our most cohesive away half of the season so far, apart from the end product, where I would rate Huddersfield higher. Interesting that Dowell, who apparently does nothing, was part of those two performances.  For me, he is one of those players who helps the flow of the game, gets the midfield closer to the front line, without necessarily being spectacular. Bielik played really well, Holmes' touch is gradually coming back and Bogle is regaining energy going forward.

I was disappointed as usual with the end product, though how Hull kept the ball out of the net at the end of the half I don't know! I haven't seen it back yet as Quest chose not to show it as it didn't suit their narrative of Hull being the better team.

The beginning of the second half brought the goal that our play had deserved, and I still think that it was a good one. Lawrence had looked really bright and worked hard but his end product was poor, so an unexpected goal from a great bit of determination would have really boosted his confidence.  Unfortunately the referee,  who had done little to address Hull's persistent physicality against us, had other thoughts. Interesting that the Birmingham goal showed immediately before our game on Quest was a much more blatant foul than Lawrence's yet was given and not even deemed worthy of a mention. 

That one decision seemed to completely knock the stuffing out of us, so fragile is our confidence at the moment. 

Bogle, for me, was at fault for both Hull's goals. We don't have Keogh,  Huddlestone or Johnson, who all at times covered for his marauding up the pitch last season, and Bielik is not aware or quick enough to drop in when he does so. I like Bogle's enterprise going forward but he is primarily a full back who is doing very little defending. More of that later. 

Lowe couldn't get up to the cross (I don't think Malone would have done any better) and we are behind again. The noise from the Hull fans, who are usually pussycats rather than tigers, said it all. They were very relieved as they had been second best up to this point.

I thought Cocu's reaction to the goal was odd, bringing on Whitaker instead of Marriott while Martin was still on the pitch. It didn't really work and just felt for me like it was Whitaker's 'turn'. I now think we're destined never to see Marriott and Martin get a regular run on the pitch together,  what a shame. 

A second goal was threatening to come as our heads went down once again and it didn't take long. Game over. I don't think we had a real threat after that and I can't recall Marriott or Waghorn doing anything of note when the former did belatedly arrive on the pitch. If that guy isn't fit for 90 minutes at least play him from the start while we are still in the game rather than bringing him on at 80 minutes to chase lost causes! 

What caused our demise in the second half? Bielik ran out of legs (that guy needs to seriously work on his fitness), Holmes and Bogle too but in their cases they are working their way back from injury. Dowell also faded badly as was to be expected after such a long time out of the first team. All those could have been anticipated pre-match but we didn't seem prepared for it and I feel bringing on three forward players when we desperately needed extra legs in midfield was a mistake. Along with Marriott, Knight or Paterson were the subs for me but neither were in the squad.

So, the most frustrating thing for me about yesterday is that we lost a game which was clearly there for the taking. A combination of poor fitness, poor refereeing and poor tactics seemed to snatch it away from us. It's really disappointing and hard to look at the bigger picture in the middle of that disappointment. Hence this thread turning into yet another discussion about Cocu.

My take on that? I'd give him time, but in exchange for doing so I would be expecting him to try something different in the way he sets up the team rather than making the same mistakes game after game. I am really conservative when it comes to formations but I don't think we have the quality or speed in the defence now Keogh is out to persist with Bogle in a flat back four. 

So, either bring in a proper full back (Wisdom) or preferably go for a back three (utilising Wisdom or Forsyth) with Bogle and Lowe as wingbacks. An added bonus of the latter is we could then play Martin with Marriott up top and I'd be happy! 

If it doesn't work, then Cocu could turn round and tell us all he knew it never would - but at least we'd know. We aren't winning these games anyway so surely it's worth the risk?

I actually think Cocu was more willing to change it up early on in the season. He found something that worked and has tried to stick to it since. We have no idea what shape Wisdom is in, as for Forsyth, we can't rush him back. I don't see a way that current options for defence can make us more solid. I would try a back 3  but there would be a serious lack of pace and mobility there. That pace hinders us defending and attacking.

Cocu got the subs wrong yesterday, but alarms me how quickly we have already become reliant on Martin and after all his fitness issues we can't ask too much.

[Steve How Hard?]

6 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

 

Cocu got the subs wrong yesterday, but alarms me how quickly we have already become reliant on Martin and after all his fitness issues we can't ask too much.

Totally agree on the point of becoming too reliant on CM. However it is the same old problem that we've never had a like for like replacement for him. Marriott whilst having the first touch to drop in and link play has always looked isolated when he's played in that position. Not necessarily his fault as the last game we played him there, his team mates persisted in playing long high balls up to him.Waghorns first touch has never been that great but this season it's been nothing short of atrocious. I doubt he could trap a bag of cement at the moment. It's hard to tell if he's trapping it or laying it off, his touch is that bad at this present time. I like Waggers but he's so frustrating right now. The Snip has suddenly morphed into The Wall. 

[superzak]

There is a lot of uncertainty around the club at the moment. Rumours of investment...does this mean with or without Mel. Rooneys arrival...will  he be in the team whether hes playing well or not because of the amount of investment...Is Cocu the right man to get us through to the summer without us getting relegated...the obvious knock on effects on the squad from the accident of a few weeks ago...and there is probably a few things happening behind the scenes that we are not privvy too as well. It cant be coincidence that Bielik can play 90 mins for Poland and cant make it too half time at Derby. That all of a sudden Waggy cant trap a bag of cement.Yes there has been a lot  of  injuries ...yes we had a poor summer recruitment wise..but if we as supporters could see 11 players that play as a team with some resemblance of a pattern of play, instead of 11 nervy looking individuals who most of the time play as if they have never met each other before, there would be far less criticism of the manager who i think will get it right if we get off his back and give him time. I can remember a certain Jim Smith joining Derby and my first  thought was here we go back to the 3rd division. The squad was terrible and it took to November and a certain Igor arrival before we started to look anything like a team and look how that turned out.

[QuitYourJibbaJivin]

Whilst the result was clearly disappointing I actually thought the performance was much better than recent weeks. We had 2 great chances in the first half to take the lead and then a goal very harshly disallowed IMO.

I understand the frustration from a lot on here, but I can’t reiterate enough that changing managers again now is just not warranted. The squad we have available is pure and simple not good enough no matter who is managing. The three loan players papered over great canyons and now they’re being laid bare. Not only are we seriously lacking in quality but also experience (not saying we need to go down the Growett route again) but Roos (half a season playing in the champ) Lowe (less than half) Clarke (handful of games) Bogle (1 season) Shinnie and Bielik (less than 20 games between them) and Holmes who had an injury hit season last year and you can see why we’re not managing games properly.

January can’t come soon enough so we add some quality to balance out the lack of nouse. Still not fully behind the Rooney signing but hopefully he can still offer something to this team. Fully expecting a mid table season this and I’m ok with that, just hope it’s a boring mid table season and we’re not having to look over our shoulders at any point. 

[angieram]

41 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

I actually think Cocu was more willing to change it up early on in the season. He found something that worked and has tried to stick to it since. We have no idea what shape Wisdom is in, as for Forsyth, we can't rush him back. I don't see a way that current options for defence can make us more solid. I would try a back 3  but there would be a serious lack of pace and mobility there. That pace hinders us defending and attacking.

Cocu got the subs wrong yesterday, but alarms me how quickly we have already become reliant on Martin and after all his fitness issues we can't ask too much.

You're partly right, but I would argue it's not working away from home. I have seen Wisdom play a couple of times for the under 23s and he looks slightly overweight, but is solid defensively and is moving well up and down the pitch. I think he's close. Forsyth probably needs a bit more time but he looks great in the air already. In a back three I think either would cope. 

The back four lacks pace and mobility now so what changes? If I were Brighton keeping an eye on Clarke I would be quite worried!

As I say, I wouldn't even be suggesting it if the defence was playing well, but it isn't. 

I also agree about Martin - so give him a striking partner - share the load.

Whatever we do it will only be a temporary fix until Cocu brings in his own players. The alternative is to grind out the same old same old until January. That's a long time for the fans to get even more frustrated. 

[Tamworthram]

13 hours ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said:

If probably still is the decision point, but the answer is a formality.

As previous comment. I really don't think a decision will be made to terminate his contract in the summer of 2020 unless we have an appalling season. So, unlikely to be a decision point or formality. 

[RedSox]

4 hours ago, Jourdan said:

"Let me clarify something, I don't dislike Cocu and personally I don't think his job should be under threat. However I'm just looking at the reality of the situation and it's not hard to imagine this being the case in the very near future.".................. 

Immediately followed by .........................."And why are you turning your nose up at Wassall?

To be honest, I'm sure we would be better off now had we appointed him in the summer, and there'd probably be an upturn if he replaced Cocu in the future too..........................

I hate repeating myself but Wassall would be a great fit for the job to give us some time to reset. Cocu was the right appointment at the wrong time. No-one was calling for it, in the situation we were in July. We needed someone who could hit the ground running and make it a smooth transition from one manager to the next.

..........................We are crying out for someone who understands the club, understands the ambitions and the demands of the owner, and understands what drives the fan base. I can't remember a manager being as out of touch with the fan base as Cocu is." 

 

Sorry mate, but when I read the above, it's hard to conclude anything other than you want him out!

Your posts were erudite and well-reasoned, but to suggest you don't think his job should be under threat and then extol the virtues of Wassall over Cocu (don't disagree with your assessment of Wassall btw), is a bit paradoxical.  

[Sparkle]

I went yesterday and nobody played badly and our golden chance was just before half time but we didn’t score Belick had his best game for me since his arrival. The disallowed goal just didn’t look right and Lawrence should gone in bravely with his head like most centre forwards would have done but he didn’t 

once we started making substitutions we got worse as we never gave the ball to Whittaker and when Marriott and Waghorn came on  we never got in the opposition half. Dowell did well until he tired and Holmes was much better out wide than in the middle 

[Sparkle]

1 hour ago, angieram said:

You're partly right, but I would argue it's not working away from home. I have seen Wisdom play a couple of times for the under 23s and he looks slightly overweight, but is solid defensively and is moving well up and down the pitch. I think he's close. Forsyth probably needs a bit more time but he looks great in the air already. In a back three I think either would cope. 

The back four lacks pace and mobility now so what changes? If I were Brighton keeping an eye on Clarke I would be quite worried!

As I say, I wouldn't even be suggesting it if the defence was playing well, but it isn't. 

I also agree about Martin - so give him a striking partner - share the load.

Whatever we do it will only be a temporary fix until Cocu brings in his own players. The alternative is to grind out the same old same old until January. That's a long time for the fans to get even more frustrated. 

Your correct regarding Clarke - he’s ok but he shouldn’t ever be playing in the premiership as he seems way below that standard and far to slow in movement and thought but Brighton took a premiership punt on him for what they consider cheap money and I am glad we didn’t at this point.

[Half fan]

2 hours ago, angieram said:

Where's the matchday thread gone?

I think some fans need to learn how to handle their disappointments a little better - the body language, other language and trooping out immediately after the second goal went in yesterday was so pitiful it made me laugh. 

I thought the first half was our most cohesive away half of the season so far, apart from the end product, where I would rate Huddersfield higher. Interesting that Dowell, who apparently does nothing, was part of those two performances.  For me, he is one of those players who helps the flow of the game, gets the midfield closer to the front line, without necessarily being spectacular. Bielik played really well, Holmes' touch is gradually coming back and Bogle is regaining energy going forward.

I was disappointed as usual with the end product, though how Hull kept the ball out of the net at the end of the half I don't know! I haven't seen it back yet as Quest chose not to show it as it didn't suit their narrative of Hull being the better team.

The beginning of the second half brought the goal that our play had deserved, and I still think that it was a good one. Lawrence had looked really bright and worked hard but his end product was poor, so an unexpected goal from a great bit of determination would have really boosted his confidence.  Unfortunately the referee,  who had done little to address Hull's persistent physicality against us, had other thoughts. Interesting that the Birmingham goal showed immediately before our game on Quest was a much more blatant foul than Lawrence's yet was given and not even deemed worthy of a mention. 

That one decision seemed to completely knock the stuffing out of us, so fragile is our confidence at the moment. 

Bogle, for me, was at fault for both Hull's goals. We don't have Keogh,  Huddlestone or Johnson, who all at times covered for his marauding up the pitch last season, and Bielik is not aware or quick enough to drop in when he does so. I like Bogle's enterprise going forward but he is primarily a full back who is doing very little defending. More of that later. 

Lowe couldn't get up to the cross (I don't think Malone would have done any better) and we are behind again. The noise from the Hull fans, who are usually pussycats rather than tigers, said it all. They were very relieved as they had been second best up to this point.

I thought Cocu's reaction to the goal was odd, bringing on Whitaker instead of Marriott while Martin was still on the pitch. It didn't really work and just felt for me like it was Whitaker's 'turn'. I now think we're destined never to see Marriott and Martin get a regular run on the pitch together,  what a shame. 

A second goal was threatening to come as our heads went down once again and it didn't take long. Game over. I don't think we had a real threat after that and I can't recall Marriott or Waghorn doing anything of note when the former did belatedly arrive on the pitch. If that guy isn't fit for 90 minutes at least play him from the start while we are still in the game rather than bringing him on at 80 minutes to chase lost causes! 

What caused our demise in the second half? Bielik ran out of legs (that guy needs to seriously work on his fitness), Holmes and Bogle too but in their cases they are working their way back from injury. Dowell also faded badly as was to be expected after such a long time out of the first team. All those could have been anticipated pre-match but we didn't seem prepared for it and I feel bringing on three forward players when we desperately needed extra legs in midfield was a mistake. Along with Marriott, Knight or Paterson were the subs for me but neither were in the squad.

So, the most frustrating thing for me about yesterday is that we lost a game which was clearly there for the taking. A combination of poor fitness, poor refereeing and poor tactics seemed to snatch it away from us. It's really disappointing and hard to look at the bigger picture in the middle of that disappointment. Hence this thread turning into yet another discussion about Cocu.

My take on that? I'd give him time, but in exchange for doing so I would be expecting him to try something different in the way he sets up the team rather than making the same mistakes game after game. I am really conservative when it comes to formations but I don't think we have the quality or speed in the defence now Keogh is out to persist with Bogle in a flat back four. 

So, either bring in a proper full back (Wisdom) or preferably go for a back three (utilising Wisdom or Forsyth) with Bogle and Lowe as wingbacks. An added bonus of the latter is we could then play Martin with Marriott up top and I'd be happy! 

If it doesn't work, then Cocu could turn round and tell us all he knew it never would - but at least we'd know. We aren't winning these games anyway so surely it's worth the risk?

Well angieram, that must be about the best post-match analysis I have ever read on this forum. Insightful and constructive and very uplifting. And beautifully written - a quality which in these days of text messages and othe social media rubbish (including this forum sometimes) is sadly overlooked.

You should be in the dug-out, or on the Board and at the very least writing for the DET.

A Moderator should send it to Mel and Cocu please. It's wasted on here.

[Ellafella]

2 hours ago, angieram said:

Where's the matchday thread gone?

I think some fans need to learn how to handle their disappointments a little better - the body language, other language and trooping out immediately after the second goal went in yesterday was so pitiful it made me laugh. 

I thought the first half was our most cohesive away half of the season so far, apart from the end product, where I would rate Huddersfield higher. Interesting that Dowell, who apparently does nothing, was part of those two performances.  For me, he is one of those players who helps the flow of the game, gets the midfield closer to the front line, without necessarily being spectacular. Bielik played really well, Holmes' touch is gradually coming back and Bogle is regaining energy going forward.

I was disappointed as usual with the end product, though how Hull kept the ball out of the net at the end of the half I don't know! I haven't seen it back yet as Quest chose not to show it as it didn't suit their narrative of Hull being the better team.

The beginning of the second half brought the goal that our play had deserved, and I still think that it was a good one. Lawrence had looked really bright and worked hard but his end product was poor, so an unexpected goal from a great bit of determination would have really boosted his confidence.  Unfortunately the referee,  who had done little to address Hull's persistent physicality against us, had other thoughts. Interesting that the Birmingham goal showed immediately before our game on Quest was a much more blatant foul than Lawrence's yet was given and not even deemed worthy of a mention. 

That one decision seemed to completely knock the stuffing out of us, so fragile is our confidence at the moment. 

Bogle, for me, was at fault for both Hull's goals. We don't have Keogh,  Huddlestone or Johnson, who all at times covered for his marauding up the pitch last season, and Bielik is not aware or quick enough to drop in when he does so. I like Bogle's enterprise going forward but he is primarily a full back who is doing very little defending. More of that later. 

Lowe couldn't get up to the cross (I don't think Malone would have done any better) and we are behind again. The noise from the Hull fans, who are usually pussycats rather than tigers, said it all. They were very relieved as they had been second best up to this point.

I thought Cocu's reaction to the goal was odd, bringing on Whitaker instead of Marriott while Martin was still on the pitch. It didn't really work and just felt for me like it was Whitaker's 'turn'. I now think we're destined never to see Marriott and Martin get a regular run on the pitch together,  what a shame. 

A second goal was threatening to come as our heads went down once again and it didn't take long. Game over. I don't think we had a real threat after that and I can't recall Marriott or Waghorn doing anything of note when the former did belatedly arrive on the pitch. If that guy isn't fit for 90 minutes at least play him from the start while we are still in the game rather than bringing him on at 80 minutes to chase lost causes! 

What caused our demise in the second half? Bielik ran out of legs (that guy needs to seriously work on his fitness), Holmes and Bogle too but in their cases they are working their way back from injury. Dowell also faded badly as was to be expected after such a long time out of the first team. All those could have been anticipated pre-match but we didn't seem prepared for it and I feel bringing on three forward players when we desperately needed extra legs in midfield was a mistake. Along with Marriott, Knight or Paterson were the subs for me but neither were in the squad.

So, the most frustrating thing for me about yesterday is that we lost a game which was clearly there for the taking. A combination of poor fitness, poor refereeing and poor tactics seemed to snatch it away from us. It's really disappointing and hard to look at the bigger picture in the middle of that disappointment. Hence this thread turning into yet another discussion about Cocu.

My take on that? I'd give him time, but in exchange for doing so I would be expecting him to try something different in the way he sets up the team rather than making the same mistakes game after game. I am really conservative when it comes to formations but I don't think we have the quality or speed in the defence now Keogh is out to persist with Bogle in a flat back four. 

So, either bring in a proper full back (Wisdom) or preferably go for a back three (utilising Wisdom or Forsyth) with Bogle and Lowe as wingbacks. An added bonus of the latter is we could then play Martin with Marriott up top and I'd be happy! 

If it doesn't work, then Cocu could turn round and tell us all he knew it never would - but at least we'd know. We aren't winning these games anyway so surely it's worth the risk?

A superb match analysis @angieram.I’m getting very frustrated with Phillip. I totally understand those fans calling for stability; however, I want to see us try different permutations to get that winning formula. We seem to keep doing the same thing over and over when it’s quite clearly insufficient. 
We appreciate all the things that have worked against us but what are we doing to try and regain some semblance of progress? 

[Ramarena]

7 hours ago, singaporeram said:

You have to wonder at our scouting system when we took Clarke on loan from Brighton and Leeds took the outstanding Ben White - two centre backs out on loan from the same Premier League side, very different quality. Not Cocu’s fault, but the advice on the loans (Clarke and Dowell) has not been well founded. 
 

Today was better than midweek and first half we looked sharper, but the lack of confidence at centre back and keeper is a fundamental problem that doesn’t look like it can be solved with people currently at the club. 

It say to me if he’s that bad then thank god we haven’t got Brighton’s recruitment team spending around £4 million for him!

[Owd miner]

 

[Mazzaram]

After reflecting on yesterday, there are some positives. Firstly, Bielik and Shinnie are forming a good partnership in central midfield. Bogle and Lowe look like the first choice at full back, and rightly so. I for one thought Clarke looked assured. Davies is a fans favourite and his leadership skills are without doubt. However, he is fairly uncertain with the ball at his feet. Yesterday, we badly missed Paterson - was he injured? Dowell should be nowhere near the first team; a poor player. Lawrence had a good game and looks to be finding the consistency and attitude we require. I'm not sure that we have found Duane Holmes's best position yet. Rooney will be a great addition. Play him in the number 10 role with Lawrence on the left and Paterson on the right, with Martin up front. I like Roos, but so many of the goals at set pieces are caused by his uncertainty with ball handling. Maybe it's time to give Hamer a go until January.

A team of Hamer, Bogle, Davies, Clark, Lowe, Bielik, Shinnie, Paterson, Rooney, Lawrence, Martin might 'cut the mustard'.

 

P.S. I like the look of Whittaker. Did well during his cameo yesterday. If we finish mid-table this season the club (and the fans) must stick with Cocu. He is taking us in the right direction.

 

UTR!

[Ilsonram12]

I see a lot of wait till January,  do we have any funds for January? Can't see cocu being given what lampard had last season, lot been spent on bielik already

My bet is what Morris said about bringing through the academy etc is the way forward

[Ramarena]

Some people suggesting that suddenly people think injured or returning players are great players since theyve been out because we are saying they should be considered.

This is a bit of a fallacy, people are suggesting alternative players who are out of the 1st team picture NOT because they think they’ve improved whilst injured, but because they might offer something that the current options don’t. 

Take Wisdom at CB, he might not be a big improvement but he might add better balance as he has attributes that the others don’t, he has more pace, strength and his passing is ok. We may try him and he struggles, but you won’t find out unless he features.

We need to find better balance in our pairings throughout the team. Some of the “forgotten” players may offer this, even if they aren’t better players!

[Rev]

2 hours ago, Half fan said:

Well angieram, that must be about the best post-match analysis I have ever read on this forum. Insightful and constructive and very uplifting. And beautifully written - a quality which in these days of text messages and othe social media rubbish (including this forum sometimes) is sadly overlooked.

You should be in the dug-out, or on the Board and at the very least writing for the DET.

A Moderator should send it to Mel and Cocu please. It's wasted on here.

Just about to post similar.

@angieram is a total star, waited nearly a day for her to have her say, and as ever it was worth waiting for.

I'd go so far as to say it's the best writing about DCFC since Gerald Mortimer, and knocks the like of Ryan Conway out the park in both content and style.