Hull City (A) Match Thread

[Tyler Durden]

32 minutes ago, Grumpy Git said:

Look for the positives:

If we had beaten Villa in May, Frank Lampard would still have gone to Chelsea, followed by Tomori and Mount. So apart from maybe having Wilson still here, what else would be different?

At least it didn't result in us paying £81M for Harry 'Beckenbauer' Maguire.

We'd have had about £120 million in Premiership TV rights money instead of scrapping round the bargain basement bin 

[Sean]

We are three wins from top. Surely Derby fans must be more aware of the nature of the Championship than most sets of fans?

[California Ram.]

You have to wonder at our scouting system when we took Clarke on loan from Brighton and Leeds took the outstanding Ben White - two centre backs out on loan from the same Premier League side, very different quality. Not Cocu’s fault, but the advice on the loans (Clarke and Dowell) has not been well founded. 
 

Today was better than midweek and first half we looked sharper, but the lack of confidence at centre back and keeper is a fundamental problem that doesn’t look like it can be solved with people currently at the club. 

[Jourdan]

4 hours ago, Saity said:

What a load of baloney....PNE are doing well with a good manager...what didn't happen is there manager didn't go into the season with just a couple of weeks of pre season to look at a new set of players and no signings of any significance with a squad short of the quality as in 3 big players...If anyone really thinks this squad is good enough to be promotion contenders then i despair!!! the midfield is weak...very weak!! Wassall ....yes thats a great idea pmsl....Cocu is'nt exactly winning fans over but he's 14 games into it....think about it....be careful what you wish for...some on here are advocating Pulis....If he was ever Derby manager I'd think seriously about If I'd spend hard earnt money following DCFC all over the country and I've been a loyal fan for yonks ....Give the man a chance ...with his own players

I wish it was baloney.

It's not just Preston though, is it? What about Sheffield Wednesday? They didn't have a permanent manager until the first week of September. What about Charlton? They have just come up from League One and this is Bowyer's first season in the Championship and second in management entirely. What about QPR? Warburton has been limited to signing free transfers and their two best players joined on loan. What about Swansea? They lost their two best players in the summer - McBurnie and James - and brought in a manager whose only previous experience was coaching youth teams.

There are plenty of teams outperforming us too who have also had difficult circumstances to contend with. We can't pretend we are the only club that has had problems to overcome.

Nowhere have I said that the squad should be competing for promotion or that Cocu doesn't deserve a chance or some time to make his mark.

Let me clarify something, I don't dislike Cocu and personally I don't think his job should be under threat. However I'm just looking at the reality of the situation and it's not hard to imagine this being the case in the very near future.

We are 16th and we haven't played well all season. There hasn't been a single complete, fluent, or memorable performance to look back upon. We have won just five games in 16 in all competitions. None of the summer signings have looked good. The players aren't responding to Cocu's methods. The fans aren't warming to him either.

Let's face it, the fans were turning on him in August - after six league games and a League Cup exit to Forest! I just don't see how he survives another bad run. The club and the fan base are not known for being patient.

Can you imagine what it'll be like 6-10 games from now if we are still losing every other week away from home and still putting in lame performances?

[Jourdan]

7 hours ago, Saity said:

Wassall ....yes thats a great idea pmsl....

And why are you turning your nose up at Wassall?

To be honest, I'm sure we would be better off now had we appointed him in the summer, and there'd probably be an upturn if he replaced Cocu in the future too.

Everyone has remarked on the success of the Academy and how exciting and entertaining the youth teams are to watch - so why not bring in the man largely responsible for it? Everyone also remembers how the style of play improved markedly from the football under Clement - so why couldn't Wassall also do the same with this set of players?

I hate repeating myself but Wassall would be a great fit for the job to give us some time to reset. Cocu was the right appointment at the wrong time. No-one was calling for it, in the situation we were in July. We needed someone who could hit the ground running and make it a smooth transition from one manager to the next.

People will turn their noses up at Wassall because he isn't a sexy appointment. But sometimes as a club you need to make the shrewd appointment rather than the sexy or the ambitious one. We are crying out for someone who understands the club, understands the ambitions and the demands of the owner, and understands what drives the fan base. I can't remember a manager being as out of touch with the fan base as Cocu is.

Wassall would split the fan base considerably too, but it wouldn't take much for him to win over the fans. Personally I maintain that this would be a great time for Wassall to come in. He would be coming in free of pressure and expectations. He wouldn't be saddled with the pressure to make 5-6 signings and spend millions in January. He would simply be expected to knuckle down, work with what he has got, get back to basics and get them playing with freedom and enjoyment again. Something he has already showed signs of being able to do.

After his work with the Academy, he is the best person to task with getting the style of play right and transitioning the likes of Sibley and Knight into the team. He knows the players, he knows the club inside out, he knows which Academy players are ready to step up, he knows Mel and what makes him tick and what he expects.

Can we say the same for Cocu?

[NottsRam77]

7 hours ago, BondJovi said:

Just throwing this out there but last season, Klopp made changes at half time for at least the first 5 matches. And he had plenty of time to know his team!

I think we should look at it and think at least he is being proactive.

None of us know what will happen, none of us can be certain it will work out, but equally we can't be certain it won't. After years of rolling the dice when it gets ugly, I would like us to see what happens if we ride out the storm. And let's be honest here, there are plenty of teams having worse seasons than us so far...

We won't ever do the rebuild and whole club re-organising we so desperately need if we never leave a manager in place long enough to work out all the issues. I am looking at you recruitment...

 

Mate I completely agree 

and I wanted that rebuild to be with frank.... I think we all did 

but it wasn’t to be 

I’m all for stability Iv said in here many a time I crave stability at this club and it’s probably the very single reason I’ll continue to back cocu I’m just also a believer in not flogging a dead horse so from a personal point of view I’m at logger heads with myself as t my stance 

Iv not been impressed at all so far for the reasons Iv cited, I’m sat here questioning his transfers, tactics, fitness levels of the players and his ability to motivate the players 

but ... and it’s a big but ... but as u correctly say maybe we just be brave and ride out the storm ... who knows patience is a virtue 

maybe we will come out the other side 

I mean it’s not like we don’t have Roooooooooooney on his way lol

im Trying to remain positive, I think just after over 30 years of watching this club it’s just easier to be pessimistic lol

[Owd miner]

8 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

Great post mate and I won’t to like it as much of what u put us absolutely bang on and totally unquestionable

my only thing, what makes u think cocu is the right man to carry us forward .

a cynic would say his dealings in the transfer market are questionable to say the least 

while weve had to replace the loans from last season, none ... not even one I can hand on heart say have got me thinking he’s an asset for us .... at best his signings are meh... to disappointing. 
 

Tactically Iv Lost count as to how many times he’s had to change it up at halftime Cos we’ve been so Inept and lacking.

he played Dowell and Huddlestone as a central 2? Enough said about that, even my forest mates asked why we were playing Dowell in a midfield two... and they didn’t even know that was alongside hms Huddlestone .. Dowell.. if he’s to play .. is an attacking player who needs to be around the box, he played there for forest , when he played for sheff United he played there so why did cocu and his championship specialist decide that was a good idea ... which unsurprisingly didn’t work

so I’m not feeling his tactics or transfers so I’m sat there thinking other than optimism what are people seeing that I’m not ?

other managers that iv seen here over 30 odd years good and bad had game plans be it direct, be it possession based or over the top 

were obviously trying to keep the ball but my god it causes more harm than good for us .. I’d wager there’s a very large percentage of goals we’ve conceded this season when we’ve had good comfortable ball and given it away cheaply to our cost trying to play at all costs

Other than continuity and stability I’m just struggling to see a reason how this will work out well

unless of course Rooney is literally still that good and can even make a cross from tom Lawrence look good lol 

Unfortunately the day he played a weakened side against Forest wa day mi and hilda switched off from cocu... what will be will be but I carnt help think these Rooney thing will be the end of cocu .. maybe wrong .. any road Hilda sez ta me last neet ... Owd miner .. Cocu out ... so I dropped mi keks and she said oh owd miner .. thas heard me wrong .. I'm on abart Derby ... I wa reet disappointed 

[NottsRam77]

3 hours ago, Jourdan said:

I wish it was baloney.

It's not just Preston though, is it? What about Sheffield Wednesday? They didn't have a permanent manager until the first week of September. What about Charlton? They have just come up from League One and this is Bowyer's first season in the Championship and second in management entirely. What about QPR? Warburton has been limited to signing free transfers and their two best players joined on loan. What about Swansea? They lost their two best players in the summer - McBurnie and James - and brought in a manager whose only previous experience was coaching youth teams.

There are plenty of teams outperforming us too who have also had difficult circumstances to contend with. We can't pretend we are the only club that has had problems to overcome.

Nowhere have I said that the squad should be competing for promotion or that Cocu doesn't deserve a chance or some time to make his mark.

Let me clarify something, I don't dislike Cocu and personally I don't think his job should be under threat. However I'm just looking at the reality of the situation and it's not hard to imagine this being the case in the very near future.

We are 16th and we haven't played well all season. There hasn't been a single complete, fluent, or memorable performance to look back upon. We have won just five games in 16 in all competitions. None of the summer signings have looked good. The players aren't responding to Cocu's methods. The fans aren't warming to him either.

Let's face it, the fans were turning on him in August - after six league games and a League Cup exit to Forest! I just don't see how he survives another bad run. The club and the fan base are not known for being patient.

Can you imagine what it'll be like 6-10 games from now if we are still losing every other week away from home and still putting in lame performances?

None of the clubs u mentioned had the luxury of spending 10m on one player either 

I was going to say his signings in the transfer market haven been poor to disappointing but quite honestly I think that’s being very very kind 

[Ellafella]

10 hours ago, Ruda Harliss said:

He can’t win then can he. Played youth at Florist and got slammed. 

 

He played a team full...I’m talking about bringing through a couple like NC did. 

[Sith Happens]

13 hours ago, Spanish said:

You may have a point but you could gamble on keeping someone who ultimately fails. Blind Retention is no guarantee of success.  Choosing the right guy and sticking with it is best but without hindsight how do you know the right horse to back

You don't of course.

What we can tell however without needing hindsight is that we have a mishmash squad which has been assembled through changing the manager so regularly.

I am fed up of hearing about transition seasons, i don't want another next season and the season after.

I feel Cocu needs time. His pre-season was far from idea, the protracted Lampard to chelsea situation didn't help, and his pre-season fixtures etc were those selected by the Lampard team.

Then he has just 4 weeks to assess his squad and make signings, it isnt long enough, especially when you have lost so many players too. We talk about Mount, Tomori, Wilson, but i for one think both bryson and johnson would add to this current midfield.

The only caveat i would have is if we are dragged into a relegation scrap, but i dont think we will be even close to that.

[Ellafella]

9 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

PMSL, is this your first year watching football? 
 

Cocu can only choose from the players available to him and it seems they're not good enough. 
 

And that really isn't his fault. At least, not for now. 

No. I’ve been watching for 45 years. So it’s not Cocu’s fault...they’re not his players. Glad we’ve cleared that one up. So that’s it then. Let’s just keep losing games playing players who look like a group of shabby footballers who don’t seem to know what they’re about who are happy to be 2nd rate. 

[Rambalin]

9 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

Love it how players get better than they are when they’ve been out of the squad 

wisdom was rightly benched for much of last season as he was poor with the ball and concentration span of Claude Davis 

he got toasted last time out 

But he’s been out for god knows how long so he’s back to being a world beater again lol

Wisdom spent the whole of last season carrying a injury and needed a op that was put off due too us not having full back cover.

He is has you say not the world's best passer but neither are any of the current back four so you loose nothing but gain strength and a little pace.

And if you want to build people up to being world beaters then George Evans is getting the same treatment and he can only play about two games in succession before getting injured.

[Ellafella]

14 hours ago, Paul71 said:

A few calling for Cocu to go. The number of managers we have had is exactly the reason we are were we are. 

But yes let's sack another and take more steps backwards.

The last time the playing staff really progressed was under clough. Why?  because he had a few years.

 

 

...and he also knew what he was doing and the perceptive people amongst us could see what he was doing and that he had a plan. 

[Mucker1884]

31 minutes ago, Owd miner said:

Unfortunately the day he played a weakened side against Forest wa day mi and hilda switched off from cocu... what will be will be but I carnt help think these Rooney thing will be the end of cocu .. maybe wrong .. any road Hilda sez ta me last neet ... Owd miner .. Cocu out ... so I dropped mi keks and she said oh owd miner .. thas heard me wrong .. I'm on abart Derby ... I wa reet disappointed 

Maybe next time, you should get her to write it down, so there is absolutely no misunderstanding!

[blackNwhites]

9 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

Great post mate and I won’t to like it as much of what u put us absolutely bang on and totally unquestionable

my only thing, what makes u think cocu is the right man to carry us forward .

a cynic would say his dealings in the transfer market are questionable to say the least 

while weve had to replace the loans from last season, none ... not even one I can hand on heart say have got me thinking he’s an asset for us .... at best his signings are meh... to disappointing. 
 

Tactically Iv Lost count as to how many times he’s had to change it up at halftime Cos we’ve been so Inept and lacking.

he played Dowell and Huddlestone as a central 2? Enough said about that, even my forest mates asked why we were playing Dowell in a midfield two... and they didn’t even know that was alongside hms Huddlestone .. Dowell.. if he’s to play .. is an attacking player who needs to be around the box, he played there for forest , when he played for sheff United he played there so why did cocu and his championship specialist decide that was a good idea ... which unsurprisingly didn’t work

so I’m not feeling his tactics or transfers so I’m sat there thinking other than optimism what are people seeing that I’m not ?

other managers that iv seen here over 30 odd years good and bad had game plans be it direct, be it possession based or over the top 

were obviously trying to keep the ball but my god it causes more harm than good for us .. I’d wager there’s a very large percentage of goals we’ve conceded this season when we’ve had good comfortable ball and given it away cheaply to our cost trying to play at all costs

Other than continuity and stability I’m just struggling to see a reason how this will work out well

unless of course Rooney is literally still that good and can even make a cross from tom Lawrence look good lol 

Cocu has a 'philosophy' (I hate it when he says that) and, whilst it is very apparent we don't have the players that perfectly fit that 'philosophy', you can clearly see what he's trying to do.

There was a moment in the early doors of the second half yesterday where we were passing down the left, and there was some lovely intricate, fast one touch passing going on that just sort of fell apart unfortunately because the players are still fine tuning themselves to that style. That's what's happening to us at the moment, lots of promising things that fizzle out at the crucial moments.

Cocu seems to be well liked by the players, so do his Dutch assistants. They appear to me to be great man managers, they're coaching the players to learn new tricks.

For example, Dowell probably looked the best he's looked at Derby since he arrived. I doubt he's got much of a future here because it'll take too much work, but he's definitely learning whilst here. Shinnie looks miles better than he did against Scunthorpe. Bielik is growing in stature. He looked completely different yesterday in the first half, he had confidence and was covering the whole midfield. He fell away in the second half because he was exhausted. He's covering for the midfield and defence.

Defence looks terrible though, we need significant improvement there.

I doubt Cocu had anything to do with any transfers this summer, his input may have been we need this, this and this. The best that was available was presented and he's had to take it on the chin. He's not going to have known anything about Paterson, Clarke, Hamer or Dowell is he? Maybe Bielik? I also doubt we spent £8-10m on Bielik, more like £2.5m?

It's gonna be frustrating this year, but again, I'm confident we'll see steady improvement on the playing side and hopefully January we'll cover the defence area and maybe add a winger. We're not finishing top 6 this season. Not with the players we've lost.

 

[NottsRam77]

1 minute ago, Rambalin said:

Wisdom spent the whole of last season carrying a injury and needed a op that was put off due too use not having full back cover.

He is has you say not the world's best passer but neither are any of the current back four so you loose nothing but gain strength and a little pace.

And if you want to build people up to being world beaters then George Evans is getting the same treatment and he can only play about two games to in succession before getting injured.

We have had a back catalogue of players that became world beaters in some fans views just by being unavailable or injured lol 
 

I know what your saying with wisdom and there is a case with him ... by nature he is actually a centre back despite having seldom played there certainly for us ... youth level for Liverpool he was a centre back and I think on a couple of occasions played there for him but probably Cos of lack of height he got moved to right back where he spent most of his career ... although incidentally his season long loan spell at Salzburg was it ? He played the whole season at centre back 

It’s not like he could do any worse there so why not ... and he’s more mobile than the other two 

[NottsRam77]

3 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

...and he also knew what he was doing and the perceptive people amongst us could see what he was doing and that he had a plan. 

Amen brother 

[Sith Happens]

2 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

...and he also knew what he was doing and the perceptive people amongst us could see what he was doing and that he had a plan. 

Yep, i know its been discussed to death, but he had an excellent record in the transfer market. Yes of course you can point to the connor sammon signings and so on but how many managers get ever signing spot on?

 

[Rammy03]

12 hours ago, nottingram said:

You might realise that our away form has largely been poo for over a year

But then again we were capable of some extraordinary performances away from home: man United, Chelsea, West brom, Norwich, Leeds in the play offs

[Steve How Hard?]

44 minutes ago, Owd miner said:

Unfortunately the day he played a weakened side against Forest wa day mi and hilda switched off from cocu... what will be will be but I carnt help think these Rooney thing will be the end of cocu .. maybe wrong .. any road Hilda sez ta me last neet ... Owd miner .. Cocu out ... so I dropped mi keks and she said oh owd miner .. thas heard me wrong .. I'm on abart Derby ... I wa reet disappointed 

You should have responded with Twan out. She may have misheard you too. ?