Hull City (A) Match Thread

[desirelines]

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

On 27/10/2019 at 08:31, angieram said:

Where's the matchday thread gone?

I think some fans need to learn how to handle their disappointments a little better - the body language, other language and trooping out immediately after the second goal went in yesterday was so pitiful it made me laugh. 

I thought the first half was our most cohesive away half of the season so far, apart from the end product, where I would rate Huddersfield higher. Interesting that Dowell, who apparently does nothing, was part of those two performances.  For me, he is one of those players who helps the flow of the game, gets the midfield closer to the front line, without necessarily being spectacular. Bielik played really well, Holmes' touch is gradually coming back and Bogle is regaining energy going forward.

I was disappointed as usual with the end product, though how Hull kept the ball out of the net at the end of the half I don't know! I haven't seen it back yet as Quest chose not to show it as it didn't suit their narrative of Hull being the better team.

The beginning of the second half brought the goal that our play had deserved, and I still think that it was a good one. Lawrence had looked really bright and worked hard but his end product was poor, so an unexpected goal from a great bit of determination would have really boosted his confidence.  Unfortunately the referee,  who had done little to address Hull's persistent physicality against us, had other thoughts. Interesting that the Birmingham goal showed immediately before our game on Quest was a much more blatant foul than Lawrence's yet was given and not even deemed worthy of a mention. 

That one decision seemed to completely knock the stuffing out of us, so fragile is our confidence at the moment. 

Bogle, for me, was at fault for both Hull's goals. We don't have Keogh,  Huddlestone or Johnson, who all at times covered for his marauding up the pitch last season, and Bielik is not aware or quick enough to drop in when he does so. I like Bogle's enterprise going forward but he is primarily a full back who is doing very little defending. More of that later. 

Lowe couldn't get up to the cross (I don't think Malone would have done any better) and we are behind again. The noise from the Hull fans, who are usually pussycats rather than tigers, said it all. They were very relieved as they had been second best up to this point.

I thought Cocu's reaction to the goal was odd, bringing on Whitaker instead of Marriott while Martin was still on the pitch. It didn't really work and just felt for me like it was Whitaker's 'turn'. I now think we're destined never to see Marriott and Martin get a regular run on the pitch together,  what a shame. 

A second goal was threatening to come as our heads went down once again and it didn't take long. Game over. I don't think we had a real threat after that and I can't recall Marriott or Waghorn doing anything of note when the former did belatedly arrive on the pitch. If that guy isn't fit for 90 minutes at least play him from the start while we are still in the game rather than bringing him on at 80 minutes to chase lost causes! 

What caused our demise in the second half? Bielik ran out of legs (that guy needs to seriously work on his fitness), Holmes and Bogle too but in their cases they are working their way back from injury. Dowell also faded badly as was to be expected after such a long time out of the first team. All those could have been anticipated pre-match but we didn't seem prepared for it and I feel bringing on three forward players when we desperately needed extra legs in midfield was a mistake. Along with Marriott, Knight or Paterson were the subs for me but neither were in the squad.

So, the most frustrating thing for me about yesterday is that we lost a game which was clearly there for the taking. A combination of poor fitness, poor refereeing and poor tactics seemed to snatch it away from us. It's really disappointing and hard to look at the bigger picture in the middle of that disappointment. Hence this thread turning into yet another discussion about Cocu.

My take on that? I'd give him time, but in exchange for doing so I would be expecting him to try something different in the way he sets up the team rather than making the same mistakes game after game. I am really conservative when it comes to formations but I don't think we have the quality or speed in the defence now Keogh is out to persist with Bogle in a flat back four. 

So, either bring in a proper full back (Wisdom) or preferably go for a back three (utilising Wisdom or Forsyth) with Bogle and Lowe as wingbacks. An added bonus of the latter is we could then play Martin with Marriott up top and I'd be happy! 

If it doesn't work, then Cocu could turn round and tell us all he knew it never would - but at least we'd know. We aren't winning these games anyway so surely it's worth the risk?

Master class. Get on the coaching staff quick!

[Ghost of Clough]

15 minutes ago, desirelines said:

That doesn't include the wrongly disallowed goal either.

[S8TY]

On 27/10/2019 at 03:51, Jourdan said:

I wish it was baloney.

It's not just Preston though, is it? What about Sheffield Wednesday? They didn't have a permanent manager until the first week of September. What about Charlton? They have just come up from League One and this is Bowyer's first season in the Championship and second in management entirely. What about QPR? Warburton has been limited to signing free transfers and their two best players joined on loan. What about Swansea? They lost their two best players in the summer - McBurnie and James - and brought in a manager whose only previous experience was coaching youth teams.

There are plenty of teams outperforming us too who have also had difficult circumstances to contend with. We can't pretend we are the only club that has had problems to overcome.

Nowhere have I said that the squad should be competing for promotion or that Cocu doesn't deserve a chance or some time to make his mark.

Let me clarify something, I don't dislike Cocu and personally I don't think his job should be under threat. However I'm just looking at the reality of the situation and it's not hard to imagine this being the case in the very near future.

We are 16th and we haven't played well all season. There hasn't been a single complete, fluent, or memorable performance to look back upon. We have won just five games in 16 in all competitions. None of the summer signings have looked good. The players aren't responding to Cocu's methods. The fans aren't warming to him either.

Let's face it, the fans were turning on him in August - after six league games and a League Cup exit to Forest! I just don't see how he survives another bad run. The club and the fan base are not known for being patient.

Can you imagine what it'll be like 6-10 games from now if we are still losing every other week away from home and still putting in lame performances?

You make some valid points Jourdan but the clubs you mention QPR Charlton Sheffield Weds etc all had a manager in place who knew the players and there squad strengths and had a full summer to recruit ....Cocu had a couple of weeks and gave every player a new start to impress so credit for him for doing that ...he’s also new to English football ...these are the reasons he needs time , I have no doubt he doesn’t think half of this team is good enough but he’s never going to say that is he?. Coupled with the drink driving fiasco and losing your captain it has been a difficult start and set of circumstances for him ... even an hardened championship manager would not want the hand Cocus been dealt 

That is not to say he’s not making mistakes because I think he is but he needs a bit of time IMO....Peps Man City were not great in his first season and he had a full summer to get his own players in and Klopp has made errors and we are talking about probably the best footballing sides in the world  right now 

I remember Klopp for example being questioned about his decisions and players he was sticking by to the point that fickle Liverpool fans were calling for him to be sacked on talksport ...I remember listening to there rants on the way to work and thinking he’s not going to survive much longer ...the keeper Karius was a nightmare and made two horrendous howlers in the champs league final and yet Klopp still stood by him in interviews ....then duly replaced him in the window with better .....his man management is fantastic by all accounts 

if you listen to Holloway talk about Cocu in his interview he’s bacically in awe of the man and Rooney is not coming to Derby to learn coaching off of anyone other than Cocu ...we have a very good coach/ manager but he’s learning on the job and cannot change much ...

if anyone wants to criticise the players that were brought in then it’s not Cocu that criticism should be aimed at its the recruitment team who appear to be blameless...

now im not comparing Klopp and Pepp to Cocu but what is similar is that they all share there own philophacies on how the game should be played and I don’t see that changing much ...on Saturday at Hull we saw some nice football without the end product and if no one can see what Cocu is trying to do then I don’t know what to say ....it’s a work in progress and there will be bumps along the way but I believe he needs time and more importantly our support ....he’s a foreign manager in a new country with new players and has to adapt himself to change...what he needs is to feel that us Derby fans are welcoming him ....not berating every back pass or stray ball as he knows what he’s doing .....If this time next season we are still nowhere near it then fair enough questions should be asked but please get behind him make him feel welcome here and he,ll get it right ...if he doesn’t then he doesn’t but now is not the time to be giving the man a hard time 

COYR

[Van der MoodHoover]

On 29/10/2019 at 10:12, desirelines said:

I love being able to justify saying "we was robbed " with data!!

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