Can Cocu Do It?

[Highgate]

We aren't going to challenge for promotion this season.  It's not realistic with our squad of players.  Let's see what Cocu can manage this season and assess his performance in May.  To even talk about a sacking now is totally reactionary in my opinion. 

Long season ahead, hopefully we will see an a gradual improvement in performance as the season develops.  That's all we can realistically ask for at this stage as there are plenty of more talented squads in this division.

[ramit]

30 minutes ago, Derbyram1983 said:

Don’t forget all the good young players in the u23s and u18s. Maybe some will breakthrough (sibley and Whittaker) next season 

If this is what we get with our costly playing squad, we might want to consider getting rid of all high earners, giving the younger players a go and stop bleeding money down the drain every season and worrying about FFP.  PC is said to work well with youngsters, maybe results might even improve, as well as the players in the squad.

[Barney1991]

The people I would change would be the recruitment team. Never got any decent over seas players in even with cocu in charge yet other teams seem to do it Norwich did it with pukki and beundia etc brentford. We cant even sort deals for lower league players like Watkins etc. I wouldn't trust our recruitment team with money we over pay the odds like Johnson and butterfield I wouldn't think we will get promoted with these monkeys recruiting players. 

[Tombo]

Whatever happens with Cocu, we need to stop this rubbish about not understanding English football.

He's watched a lot of footage. He's watched a lot of football. He understands football, English or otherwise, better than any one of you lot.

It's our first ever foreign manager and people want to boot him out on the grounds that he's foreign so obviously he doesn't understand. At best this is misguided, at worst its outright xenophobic. It needs to stop.

And if anyone else brings up Frank De Boer like it has any relation to Cocu, I swear I will hunt you down and do some damage (this is a joke, pls don't ban)

[Big Trav]

Realistically how many players in this team would you keep?? Be honest. I can only think of a hand full or so. Bogle Lowe malone Holmes Marriott bielik and maybe waghorn big maybe tho. I dint think I’d mind the rest leaving to be honest. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

Short answer, yes he can, but it's going to take time. And painful performance and results are going to be part of that.

Longer answer involves, is it worth it, do we want to get there, could someone else do it faster, and so on.

My overall concern though is we're going to go through a lean period of falling back as often happens after a team tries for a while without getting the promotion - when those times happen you can go through no end of managers and new starts but the overall trend remains.

[Owd miner]

Chris Hughton ...

[Jourdan]

1 minute ago, Tombo said:

Whatever happens with Cocu, we need to stop this rubbish about not understanding English football.

He's watched a lot of footage. He's watched a lot of football. He understands football, English or otherwise, better than any one of you lot.

It's our first ever foreign manager and people want to boot him out on the grounds that he's foreign so obviously he doesn't understand. At best this is misguided, at worst its outright xenophobic. It needs to stop.

And if anyone else brings up Frank De Boer like it has any relation to Cocu, I swear I will hunt you down and do some damage (this is a joke, pls don't ban)

No-one has suggested he doesn't understand football. You don't achieve what he has in the game without understanding what works in football.

However his philosophy, style of play and knowledge base is based upon his successful experiences in continental football - the Eredivisie and La Liga, for example.

Would you agree that English football is different to continental football, and something that might work here might not work there and vice versa?

I don't think anyone is using this as a stick to beat Cocu with. No-one expected him to know the EFL inside out and no-one expected for it to be a stroll in the park. Some managers have plied their trade here all of their careers and still struggle to succeed, after all.

But I think it's fair to say that the club probably underestimated the scale of the task facing Cocu and didn't really give him the tools or the right foundations to prosper - poor planning, a lack of key personnel in key places, and poor recruitment all spring to mind.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

My focus is on the players. No excuse for lacklustre attitude. They seem to think they are elite in the division.... They are wrong. Forget this season. We need a rebuild. 

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

This all comes down to recruitment, Mount, Wilson and Tomori papered over the cracks big time last season. 
Cocu hasn’t had much influence on the recruitment, but those responsible for our scouting etc have been here for sometime now. 
The obvious place to begin any staff shuffling has to begin and end there as things are getting worse with each transfer window. 

[Sexydadbod]

2 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

No-one has suggested he doesn't understand football. You don't achieve what he has in the game without understanding what works in football.

However his philosophy, style of play and knowledge base is based upon his successful experiences in continental football - the Eredivisie and La Liga, for example.

Would you agree that English football is different to continental football, and something that might work here might not work there and vice versa?

I don't think anyone is using this as a stick to beat Cocu with. No-one expected him to know the EFL inside out and no-one expected for it to be a stroll in the park. Some managers have plied their trade here all of their careers and still struggle to succeed, after all.

But I think it's fair to say that the club probably underestimated the scale of the task facing Cocu and didn't really give him the tools or the right foundations to prosper - poor planning, a lack of key personnel in key places, and poor recruitment all spring to mind.

You’ve raised a couple of a very good points there. Every league is different so his philosophy needs to be adaptable too to suit the league. To succeed in Eredivisie and La Liga , you need to be excellent footballers technically, and an excellent understanding tactically. English football on the other hand, you need pace strength, passion and power to succeed rather than slow calculated possession football. Players in Holland and Spain in the teenage years probably have a better understanding of the game from a tactical standpoint than many english players in their late twenties so it would be difficult or next to impossible to educate players who aren’t used to it, especially championship players. 

[Owd miner]

4 minutes ago, The Orange Pimpernel said:

My focus is on the players. No excuse for lacklustre attitude. They seem to think they are elite in the division.... They are wrong. Forget this season. We need a rebuild. 

Everyone sez rebuild.... I dunt see club rebuilding prices on't ticket prices 

[Tombo]

Just now, Jourdan said:

No-one has suggested he doesn't understand football. You don't achieve what he has in the game without understanding what works in football.

However his philosophy, style of play and knowledge base is based upon his successful experiences in continental football - the Eredivisie and La Liga, for example.

Would you agree that English football is different to continental football, and something that might work here might not work there and vice versa?

I don't think anyone is using this as a stick to beat Cocu with. No-one expected him to know the EFL inside out and no-one expected for it to be a stroll in the park. Some managers have plied their trade here all of their careers and still struggle to succeed, after all.

But I think it's fair to say that the club probably underestimated the scale of the task facing Cocu and didn't really give him the tools or the right foundations to prosper - poor planning, a lack of key personnel in key places, and poor recruitment all spring to mind.

I would agree that the game plays a little different here than it does in other countries.

I absolutely dispute that there's such a thing as "continental football". The game plays differently in the Netherlands as it does in Spain. So no link can be made between his Eredivisie experience and his La Liga experience.

I would also dispute that Cocu is trying to play a style of football that resembles either a Spanish or a Dutch style of play. I think it's a very English style of play. It reminds me of the dull rubbish we saw in the national team in the Capello and Hodgson eras - that's the problem!

Slow, turgid, holding onto the ball far too long, only being totally inept at bringing the ball out from the back, even with long direct balls, which we don't attempt all that often. We would be doing this if we were emulating a Dutch style. Nor do we move the ball quickly and take minimal touches on the ball, as we would if we were trying to emulate Barcelona.

Some very valid criticisms of Cocu but looking to his lack of experience in this league doesn't cut it for me. Like I said, if I take these comments in good faith which I am inclined to do, I would say that it's just the easy excuse. It's the easiest explanation and it saves us as fans from thinking "what the duck is going wrong here" and scratching our heads. As fans we hate not being able to put our fingers on what is wrong. We like to review the game afterwards and say "it's easy, they just need to do X and try more Y and it'll be fine". Its easy to say "our manager is struggling to adapt".

If I take the comments at their worst possible interpretation, you could say fans are hounding out the clubs first ever foreign manager because they had already got it in their heads that they wanted somebody English, because a Dutch guy just won't "get it".

[RiddingsRam]

It's frustrating because the Birmingham home game , Barnsley 1st half and Luton 1st half . You really could start to see what Cocu's style was and how it was starting to develop. 

The problems are he likes to play from the back and it's paramount to his style . We don't have the players to do this . Davies , Clarke and especially Roos aren't that style of player , Davies could do a job , the rest no.

Problem two had been the injury to Huddlestone in a 4-3-3 the holding midfield player and the holding striker are the key to your attacking build up and to Cocu's style . Bielik is ok but he's better in this system at the back . Honestly think Bird maybe best suited to this role in the long term . Regarding the centre forward Martin coming has been somewhat of a revelation. But a second option there who plays like Martin would be nice . 

 

 

[GrimsbyRam]

People talking about him having no time pre season and no involvement in recruitment.  What about Lamouchi he only came in a week before.  He managed to sign players and get them to gel.  Garry Monk, he didn't even have a transfer window and Sheffield Wednesday are above us.  Cowley is turning Huddersfield round too.  

How many games have we had less than 4 shots on target away? at least 4 now.  Worrying and we are currently in the run of 'easy games'.

[Remy the hare]

None of our woes are anything to do with Phil, he’s inherited this. Since December 2015 we have been on a downwards spiral in general as a club making bad mistakes which points the finger at one person. Yes last season was ok with Wembley but it masked the truth. However when Phil’s interviewed sadly to me he doesn’t make much sense and he seems directionless, which I imagine gets lots of sniggers in the dressing room. I do think we still need to give him until next Christmas, because I keep thinking of Farke at Norwich. 

[Topram]

Been today been most away games we just aren’t good enough

Cocu unfortunately for him has inherited this squad he deserves a few years it’s about time we got some stability and it won’t  happen over night 

[TommyPowell]

58 minutes ago, Owd miner said:

Chris Hughton ...

Getting into the spirit of a lot on here,Firstly I believe you mean CHRIS Hughton.but what thats go to do with this topic I have no idea me duck

[MACKWORTHRAM]

Of course Cocu can do it. He knows more about football than most of us put together. 

Unfortunately for him he has inherited a squad that is fundamentally not good enough.

Too many times we watch this side be out fought, out battled and show a complete lack of desire and heart. That too me is unforgivable.

So often these players have hid behind a manager. 

I honestly cannot stand any of the players we have. There's not one player there that I could care less about if they stay or go. 

I've had enough of every last one of them. The replies to Davies tweet says it all. People aren't listening anymore. It's just words. They might turn up and play against Wigan but then will be utterly gutless again at Hull.

Sacking a manager would be completely pointless. We go through a manager a season and we are still getting the same problems. The one common denominator is the players.

This squad needs ripping apart. It's rotten to the core. But this is gonna take time. Let Cocu do what he wants.

[Cisse]

I think the squad is more of a problem at the moment than Cocu. If we had Jake Buxton in our squad then it would be a different ball game.