SaintRam Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, IslandExile said: Agreed. Great attitude from Shinnie. In fairness, I think Cocu is still learning - both about the Championship and about his squad. Training can only tell you so much. Many managers talk on arrival of clean slates but, again, to be fair, Cocu has let Martin and Shinnie work their way into the team. Also he wouldn't be the first manager to hit on the best team and formation through chance injuries and suspensions. Looking at you Bobby Robson, 1986. What I'm wondering about, especially given the short preseason, were Clarke, Dowell and Bielik players that Cocu even knew about, Rosenior recommendations or did they come from the mysterious and elusive recruitment team? He's very close with Evertons academy man, so I reckon Dowell was a recommendation. They may not be so close now. ? I can't imagine the club would consider spending anything close to 8/10m if it wasn't Cocus call. Not after the recent record. And to strengthen that position, Cocu seems very very high on Bielik indeed. "Doesn't matter if he's 100%, we need to get him in the team." Sorta stuff. I think he was 100% Cocus man. Clarke im not sure about. He looked very comfortable playing out from the back last season in a lower league. So maybe Cocu was involved, but just caught out a little by his lack of knowledge of the divisions. Clarke looks very good sometimes (turning away from people etc.) looks like the pace of the game catches him out other times. Sure he'll improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodley Ram Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Yes , he was good today in why was a poor match, we missed Huddlestone’s passing. also got fed up with fans booing and ranting at the players, it’s not helpful, I know they pay their money so have an opinion but dosnt help things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 @SaintRam I agree with all of that. And I think Bielik will turn out to be a great signing. And Cocu a great manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BramcoteRam84 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Exactly what we’ve been missing. Our best player today no question. Hope he gets an extended run as i think our midfield looks more balanced with him in. Just hope after a great debut, he doesn’t follow the same path as bob Malcolm!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 I did enjoy when he went in full bloodied, their player pussied out and he ended up winning the tackle with his knee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestKentRam Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 I think I must be the only one who thought Shinnie was a bit soft today. After the final whistle he and his brother swapped shirts. Chris Wilder wouldn't have stood for it. Our Shinnie should have just nutted their Shinnie and stode off. That would tell him we don't fraternalise with the opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 6 hours ago, Sparkle said: Played like a central midfielder should do pure and simple and would be a good foil for Dowell to do a lot better but Holmes will never be a central midfielder because he just doesn’t do everything that is needed Woah there, don’t get talking about my man Duane like that ? Honestly don’t see what he doesn’t offer that you think dowell does? Holmes is 100% a centre mid, he’s got good feet, good passing, is reasonably strong and battles well. Great ball carrier as well. Not the same type of CM as Shinnie, but if you have three shinnies then you’ll get nowhere either. He’s the more defensive style, Holmes is more attacking- you need both. Christ knows what dowell is, he’s supposed to be the latter I suppose but he offers almost none of what Holmes does. Team has to carry him when he’s on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDerbySuperRams Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 He was absolutely terrific in the first half. My only worry is that we will struggle to create with him and Bielik in the side at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodley Ram Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, SuperDerbySuperRams said: He was absolutely terrific in the first half. My only worry is that we will struggle to create with him and Bielik in the side at home. Spot @Super Derby Super Rams On , we missed Huddlestone, perhaps Holmes can fill the void Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 10 hours ago, IslandExile said: Agreed. Great attitude from Shinnie. In fairness, I think Cocu is still learning - both about the Championship and about his squad. Training can only tell you so much. Many managers talk on arrival of clean slates but, again, to be fair, Cocu has let Martin and Shinnie work their way into the team. Also he wouldn't be the first manager to hit on the best team and formation through chance injuries and suspensions. Looking at you Bobby Robson, 1986. What I'm wondering about, especially given the short preseason, were Clarke, Dowell and Bielik players that Cocu even knew about, Rosenior recommendations or did they come from the mysterious and elusive recruitment team? Although with Dowell, didn’t he come with a recommendation from his mate at Everton ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 On 24/09/2019 at 16:36, Srg said: Bigger problem is, in my opinion, that the team looks like it has an anchor chained to it's leg in the shame of the immobile Huddlestone, and Cocu thus far has been unwilling to the point of stubbornness to have a look at the team without him to see what it could be. It may turn out we're worse (Can't imagine it but it's possible), but when every player has been dropped or rotated at some point but him there's one common denominator. Brilliantly accurate analogy. Hudd’s Presence ties us geographically to our defensive 3rd and gives opportunities to the opposition. Hudd is a great footballer but it’s time we moved on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 11 hours ago, BramcoteRam84 said: Exactly what we’ve been missing. Our best player today no question. Hope he gets an extended run as i think our midfield looks more balanced with him in. Just hope after a great debut, he doesn’t follow the same path as bob Malcolm!! Totally agree. I’d only previously seen Shinnie pre-season in the awful friendly versus the Spanish side and based on that alone he looked definitely light-weight. However, he was imperious yesterday: suddenly we had shape and purpose as he repeatedly won the ball and tidied up with simple forward passes to a team-mate. Based on yesterday, 2 pieces of the midfield jigsaw puzzle were snapped into place for me and should definitely be the preferred options in future but I suspect that Cocu just admires Hudd’s quick feet and passing range so much that it blinds him to the skewed formation that results. Shinnie, on that display, should be the first name on the team sheet for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean (hick) Saunders Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 I don’t think you can carry even one player of Huddlestones “pace” in midfield in today’s championship against most teams. He is is easy to bypass due to his supertanker turning speed that even lower grade players against him just need to turn one way then the other and they are past. If he could head the ball better, I would consider putting him at the back (like in his early career) as part of back 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Shinnie played a number of very accurate long passes to the wings as well as the short stuff. I know its only one game but lets give him a run. Bielik not for the first time underhit a lot of passes today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Didn't go yesterday so can't comment on his performance ,but I do remember FL saying he leaves everything out there on the pitch.We could do with a few more like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raich Carter Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Shinnie was excellent. He nicked the ball back so many times and it was a joy to watch Cos he’s exactly the sort of player I think we’ve needed for years. That type of pressure puts their midfield under pressure whether he’s actually there or not - they know he’s coming. He has quick feet so nicks the ball very very well. I was hugely impressed - I love a strong CDM. Ahem. Roos - shocking. Absolutely shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimsbyRam Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 3 hours ago, SuperDerbySuperRams said: He was absolutely terrific in the first half. My only worry is that we will struggle to create with him and Bielik in the side at home. That’s what we have wide men and Paterson for? Bielek was spraying balls wide only for Bogle to have no support from Flo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Is he a screen the defence CDM or is he a general purpose box-to-box midfielder, the reboot of Paul Green perhaps? After all, 4-2-3-1 to become 4-3-3 only requires 1 player coming forwards a bit when on the front foot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 15 hours ago, europia said: Good points. It might be a case that Cocu will have to accept that his preference for footballing midfielders (and also centre backs) isn't necessarily a good option for championship football. Maybe everyone is learning something? I think we saw in Shinnie today, the player Lampard had high hopes for. This is it in a nutshell. We’ve suffered from not having enough grafters, battlers and leaders in key positions which in turn has let our technical players down time and time again. The championship is an unforgiving battleground and you need to have the players able to do the basics to succeed. Our managers need to start accepting the division for what it is. When you get to the Prem you can obviously start carrying more technical players! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 5 minutes ago, Ramarena said: This is it in a nutshell. We’ve suffered from not having enough grafters, battlers and leaders in key positions which in turn has let our technical players down time and time again. The championship is an unforgiving battleground and you need to have the players able to do the basics to succeed. Our managers need to start accepting the division for what it is. When you get to the Prem you can obviously start carrying more technical players! Agree. Bradley Johnson did this very well for us last year, despite it not being his natural position. Will Cocu see that this is needed? Whether Shinnie has a future with us depends on the answer to that question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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