The Politics Thread 2019

[FindernRam]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

Which Sovereignties do we currently cede to Brussels that you think are wrong?

All of them! Particularly, justice, trade, immigration, fishing and agriculture policies. Spending of our "membership" fee on all sorts of nonsense that we cannot control.

Stay and it'll be the army next!

[Highgate]

1 hour ago, FindernRam said:

London is not representative of the UK in any way and that is the real problem with basing our politicians there. Almost 40% were not even born in the UK.

Scotland is less than 10% of the total UK population but shouts a lot with a permanent chip on their shoulder. How they think ceding sovereignties to Brussels is better than Westminster is beyond me.

NI is more complex and I really don't pretend to understand the issues but:

We have Scotland, NI and ROI who are totally outnumbered by the UK calling the shots-talk about the tail wagging the dog

 In what sense is the ROI part of the UK's tail, and how is it calling the shots?  Do you mean the UK honouring the commitments that it made in the Belfast Agreement is preventing it from leaving the EU in the way that it would wish ?

[GboroRam]

19 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

All of them! Particularly, justice, trade, immigration, fishing and agriculture policies. Spending of our "membership" fee on all sorts of nonsense that we cannot control.

Stay and it'll be the army next!

Which agriculture policies particularly aggrieve you? Or justice? I'll ignore immigration as others who are pro Brexit argue its a bad basis for leaving (however I think a lot of people voted with immigration as a major concern, but if I push that angle I'll be accused of calli g all brexiters thick racist gammons, which is not true but saves answering the question) but other than fishing, which I admit I don't understand in detail but concede there may be benefits for but it's undoubtedly not clear cut - what actual issues are there? 

[Gritstone Ram]

3 hours ago, Curtains said:

I agree that has something to do with it. 

I still think Hybrid/ Electrification /climate change will have a massive effect in the future on the car  industry etc  

PS Because we are still in the EU leaving process we are unable to sign our own trade deals so uncertainties reign 

 

I know and I suspect the EU want to keep us tied in with them.

I have completely lost any faith in any politician who just seem to be in it for themselves. Chesterfield voted 60% leave yet the MP hasn’t voted for anything which will enable us to leave the EU. 

I think May has used the wrong strategy and most of the MPs have more or less shown they are poo scared of leaving without a deal. 

There isn’t much of an opposition until it comes to any vote in Parliament then nothing gets passed. The only thing that could get passed in Parliament is something that will leave us tied to the EU which I think would be a waste of time and we may as well remain in the EU. 

Options are running out and I suspect we will end up with some half hearted attempt at leaving but we will not have properly left. 

all in all it is a monumental cockup.

[Archied]

36 minutes ago, Gritters said:

I know and I suspect the EU want to keep us tied in with them.

I have completely lost any faith in any politician who just seem to be in it for themselves. Chesterfield voted 60% leave yet the MP hasn’t voted for anything which will enable us to leave the EU. 

I think May has used the wrong strategy and most of the MPs have more or less shown they are poo scared of leaving without a deal. 

There isn’t much of an opposition until it comes to any vote in Parliament then nothing gets passed. The only thing that could get passed in Parliament is something that will leave us tied to the EU which I think would be a waste of time and we may as well remain in the EU. 

Options are running out and I suspect we will end up with some half hearted attempt at leaving but we will not have properly left. 

all in all it is a monumental cockup.

You are spot on ,it’s such a mess and our politicians are desperately trying to deliver something that they can claim is leaving but isn’t ,to the extent that staying is a far better deal , for me most leave voters come from the undercurrent of being against the ongoing centralisation of government and see the eu as an extension of the kind of centralisation that saw vast areas of the uk being economically decimated while the south east / london didn’t so much , we saw government sat in london with not a clue about or care for vast swaves of the country that were being destroyed ,the fear is that we are increasingly being governed by politicians even farther removed from real people than the clowns we’ve suffered under for years already ,its easy to mistake this for or pass off as racism 

[Rev]

24 minutes ago, Archied said:

You are spot on ,it’s such a mess and our politicians are desperately trying to deliver something that they can claim is leaving but isn’t ,to the extent that staying is a far better deal , for me most leave voters come from the undercurrent of being against the ongoing centralisation of government and see the eu as an extension of the kind of centralisation that saw vast areas of the uk being economically decimated while the south east / london didn’t so much , we saw government sat in london with not a clue about or care for vast swaves of the country that were being destroyed ,the fear is that we are increasingly being governed by politicians even farther removed from real people than the clowns we’ve suffered under for years already ,its easy to mistake this for or pass off as racism 

Governments for years have moved further and further away from their actual reason to exist, which is to provide security, homes, health and other basic needs for all the people they govern, either directly from state provision, or creating a fair economic environment that encourages job creation, fair wages and stability of employment.

We've seen 30+ years of disastrous government decisions worldwide, and allowed private corporations to become so powerful that they shape the new rules, and governments acquiesce to their demands through lack of any powers to stop them. 

In reality, why does it matter if we're ruled from Brussels, London, Washington DC or Beijing, they don't listen, because what can they change?

The genie of private wealth over public good is well and truly out of the bottle now, and will never be corked again.

We may well end up with a socialist lite Labour government, which will renationalise public utilities and the NHS, but the pot of cash they can bring in through taxation will shrink year on year as more traditional businesses go the way of Woolworths etc etc, while Amazon, Google, Apple et al hoover up our spare cash and shift it through Luxembourg and other low tax countries, before parking the proceeds offshore.

Which leads to another quandary, knowing these companies are too powerful, do I take my money elsewhere and sacrifice the convience and quality on offer?

Do I heck, barely anyone does, and so we end up with the politicians and businesses that we deserve, and that is why we're all responsible for the mess we are in.

 

[ariotofmyown]

49 minutes ago, reveldevil said:

Governments for years have moved further and further away from their actual reason to exist, which is to provide security, homes, health and other basic needs for all the people they govern, either directly from state provision, or creating a fair economic environment that encourages job creation, fair wages and stability of employment.

We've seen 30+ years of disastrous government decisions worldwide, and allowed private corporations to become so powerful that they shape the new rules, and governments acquiesce to their demands through lack of any powers to stop them. 

In reality, why does it matter if we're ruled from Brussels, London, Washington DC or Beijing, they don't listen, because what can they change?

The genie of private wealth over public good is well and truly out of the bottle now, and will never be corked again.

We may well end up with a socialist lite Labour government, which will renationalise public utilities and the NHS, but the pot of cash they can bring in through taxation will shrink year on year as more traditional businesses go the way of Woolworths etc etc, while Amazon, Google, Apple et al hoover up our spare cash and shift it through Luxembourg and other low tax countries, before parking the proceeds offshore.

Which leads to another quandary, knowing these companies are too powerful, do I take my money elsewhere and sacrifice the convience and quality on offer?

Do I heck, barely anyone does, and so we end up with the politicians and businesses that we deserve, and that is why we're all responsible for the mess we are in.

 

An excellent summary of the political system started by Thatcher and Reagan and continued on since.

[ketteringram]

9 hours ago, Curtains said:

I really am at a loss now to know what is best anymore for the future regarding the UK and the EU considering the total chaos that has ensued after a mainly Remainer Parliamentary system has refused to entertain leaving with or without a deal. 

I'm stealing this next comment from somewhere else, but it sums up the current state of affairs for me. 

The last 3 years have been about MPs finding a way to remain in the EU, without taking any personal blame for it happening. 

[1of4]

1 hour ago, ketteringram said:

I'm stealing this next comment from somewhere else, but it sums up the current state of affairs for me. 

The last 3 years have been about MPs finding a way to remain in the EU, without taking any personal blame for it happening. 

Thought it was more a case of the MPs in the main political parties trying to find a way to leave and then being able to pass the blame on to the other parties, if brexit is a failure.

[1of4]

Ukraine have elected a comedian as their new president. Had me wondering if any real comedians could do a better job of running the country than the bunch of jokers we have doing it at the moment.

[GboroRam]

1 hour ago, 1of4 said:

Ukraine have elected a comedian as their new president. Had me wondering if any real comedians could do a better job of running the country than the bunch of jokers we have doing it at the moment.

Would the UK equivalent be the election of a spitting image puppet? 

[Gritstone Ram]

I reckon Russell Brand would be more left wing where as I suspect Jonathan Ross would be more right wing.

[1of4]

20 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Would the UK equivalent be the election of a spitting image puppet? 

Those in control at the moment only talk out of their bums. Whereas the puppets were controlled an arm of an unknown person up theirs. 

Maybe not a lot of difference between the two.

[ramit]

Brother Nathanael nailing it, as he often does IMO

 

[McRamFan]

 

[cstand]

Been busy of late are the riot police still on the streets of France must be  6 months by now and record youth employment in Spain and Italy 33% but surely how can this be happening in the land of milk and honey. 

[eddie]

1 hour ago, cstand said:

Been busy of late are the riot police still on the streets of France must be  6 months by now and record youth employment in Spain and Italy 33% but surely how can this be happening in the land of milk and honey. 

So which lot are you voting for in the Euro elections - Kippers or Kippers lite?

[Anon]

1 hour ago, cstand said:

Been busy of late are the riot police still on the streets of France must be  6 months by now and record youth employment in Spain and Italy 33% but surely how can this be happening in the land of milk and honey. 

You're barking up the wrong tree if you think most remainers give a poo about the unemployed working class in Spain and Italy. So long as they get a good exchange rate and can swan about in Barcelona and Sorrento, they're as happy as pigs in the proverbial.

[eddie]

13 minutes ago, Anon said:

You're barking up the wrong tree if you think most remainers give a poo about the unemployed working class in Spain and Italy. So long as they get a good exchange rate and can swan about in Barcelona and Sorrento, they're as happy as pigs in the proverbial.

Bruges or Gent for me. However, since you lot screwed up the exchange rate though with your idiotic vote for unicorns that fart rainbows, it's quite pricy, but at least there are no imbeciles wearing Union Flag tee shirts throwing their guts up after drinking more than they can handle.

[McRamFan]

12 hours ago, cstand said:

Been busy of late are the riot police still on the streets of France must be  6 months by now and record youth employment in Spain and Italy 33% but surely how can this be happening in the land of milk and honey. 

3 points:

1. French always riot.

2. Spain's issue goes back 40 odd years, gamon related.

3..,