The Politics Thread 2019

[Rev]

1 minute ago, ariotofmyown said:

From the wiki intro on him, sounds like a right sort...

"Ben Garrison is an American right-wing political cartoonist. He is a self-described libertarian whose cartoons have been widely promoted among the alt-right. His cartoons often lionize conservative figures and right wing politicians such as President Donald Trump.'

Has an army of fans though, who don't take kindly to any barracking.

[McRamFan]

Balance

[Anon]

Ben Garrison is really interesting. His cartoons are fairly run of the mill stuff, the only stand out feature being their ability to trigger "orange man bad" NPCs, but that's hardly difficult these days. It's quite funny that he originally became notorious because of trolls doctoring his work to extol far right views, yet the Overton window has shifted so much that his own work now receives the same labels.

[Highgate]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/us/politics/trump-veto-yemen.html

Orange Man Bad.

 

[Anon]

20 minutes ago, Highgate said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/us/politics/trump-veto-yemen.html

Orange Man Bad.

 

Agreed. In this instance, orange man cowardly hypocrite. Congress can get ducked too though. Most of these people opposed withdrawing troops from Afghanistan and encouraged this same involvement in Syria.

[SillyBilly]

On 13/04/2019 at 01:52, RamNut said:

Prior to Brexit, commentators and politicians were expressing fears that there was a general antipathy and lack of interest in political issues. they were bemoaning how bad it was for democracy. There were concerns about the low turn out in general elections and bi-elections, with more than third of registered voters not bothering to vote.

And younger voters were the least likely to vote. The ekderly and the senile were the most likely to vote.

All of which supports my theory that you don't have to be mad to vote, but it helps.

And this impression is reinforced by the fact that - in England - about 70% of the over 70s vote Tory. As your brain deteriorates you are more motivated to vote, and more motivated to vote Tory. Its like a Mad Cow disease. The retirees and the elderly are a danger to themselves and others. But even 1 in 5 younger people suffer this unfortunate condition too.

Really they should all have their car keys confiscated whenever there is an election is in the offing.

We should drop the voting age to 10 and 3/4 to counter balance the old fogies.

It is fairly obvious most people who acquire cash and assets in life or have cash to protect at the end of their life tend to vote Tory. Socialism sounds great to young people, who would not want rich people to share their money with them as rich people have got lots and they haven't got much? A few years at work and a lot will see the light but to be replaced by the next conveyor belt of starry eyed dreamers. Those that are not up to much by 30 have to plod on, usally they'll take out a life membership with the Labour party at this point, join a Union or rant about how unfair the nasty Tories are to them.

[SillyBilly]

On 12/04/2019 at 13:24, McRamFan said:

Actually, the hard right have caused this, as they wanted a hard brexit, and no way was that going to happen, even the EU wouldn't let it happen, otherwise we would be out on our arse today.

Your mates in ERG, through lies, deceit and a failed power grab, have steered the UK away from a hard brexit.  People want the best deal for the UK, the best deal is to put it to the people.

Yeah, a disgrace that to this day there are about 170 or so agitators of the 650 MPs total that still believe in Brexit and are actually trying to push the UK out of the EU.

I make it Remain has a 300 seat majority over Leave in parliament so why not flex that political muscle and eliminate any Leave voice whatsover? As you say about 100 or so of those 170 are extremists anyway in the form of the ERG so they cannot be listened to or bargained with. Who really cares about manifestos made 2 years ago now anyway? I also don't think it actually matters in the long run that 2/3 of constituences are Leave constituencies, we had a vote in 2016 but the tide changes and people will get used to it. Might be a bit of voter backlash at first but in the fullness of time this vote can seen as just an unfortunate but temporary obstacle that had to be navigated... ultimately for the best interests of those voters.

[SillyBilly]

I also think Change UK is exactly the sort of party we need to maintain the status quo with the EU.

I just hope Tony Blair comes out of retirement now to lead this new party occupying the centre ground and rstoring sanity by cancelling Brexit.

Also refreshing to see a party not stuffed with career politicians and politicians who have the courage of their convictions - despite what others say I don't think it actually matters none of them see it fit to ask the electorate if they approve of their decision, that can wait until the next general election afterall. And to be honest it doesn't matter what manifesto they were elected on the back of either, noone could have envisioned how badly Brexit could have gone since then - they have a new responsbility to make the decision according to the realities of today, not because of some vote 3 years ago.

[Rev]

3 minutes ago, SillyBilly said:

I also think Change UK is exactly the sort of party we need to maintain the status quo with the EU.

I just hope Tony Blair comes out of retirement now to lead this new party occupying the centre ground and rstoring sanity by cancelling Brexit.

Also refreshing to see a party not stuffed with career politicians and politicians who have the courage of their convictions - despite what others say I don't think it actually matters none of them see it fit to ask the electorate if they approve of their decision, that can wait until the next general election afterall. 

Believe you me, I can't wait to have my say on Chris Leslie.

[ariotofmyown]

2 hours ago, SillyBilly said:

We should drop the voting age to 10 and 3/4 to counter balance the old fogies.

It is fairly obvious most people who acquire cash and assets in life or have cash to protect at the end of their life tend to vote Tory. Socialism sounds great to young people, who would not want rich people to share their money with them as rich people have got lots and they haven't got much? A few years at work and a lot will see the light but to be replaced by the next conveyor belt of starry eyed dreamers. Those that are not up to much by 30 have to plod on, usally they'll take out a life membership with the Labour party at this point, join a Union or rant about how unfair the nasty Tories are to them.

You are so right. The choice is currently a between a decent and fair Tory party, who look out for those hardworking investment bankers who deserve the odd house or 4 upon their early retirement at 50 VS the far left Stalinists in the Labour party who plan to increase taxes on the wealthiest 1% who own 50% of the uk, to pay for vanity projects such as improved hospitals, schools and to help for the most vulnerable in society.

I'm probably in the top 10% of the UK in terms of wealth, but I have more in common with the other 90%, not the 10% who through sheer hardwork alone, are way richer than myself.

I stand with the nurses, firemen, teachers, shop workers, labourers, delivery people, factory workers who should have better lives.

I don't stand with the slum landlords, the hedge fund managers, the royals, the great-great-great grandchildren of slave owners, the people who bought a house in east London in 1986 rather than Derby.

Let's just keep swallowing the lies. There is no other way. 100% capitalism or bust. Even though capitalism busts every few years anyway, but they just get bailed out.

[Norman]

 

 

[GenBr]

I keep dropping back into this thread to see how its going. It's good to see the name calling still in full force, but we now seem to have descended into calls for the end of representative democracy and the dismantlement of capitalism.

.

[Anon]

23 minutes ago, GenBr said:

I keep dropping back into this thread to see how its going. It's good to see the name calling still in full force, but we now seem to have descended into calls for the end of representative democracy and the dismantlement of capitalism.

.

But it's never been tried before!

[McRamFan]

13 hours ago, GenBr said:

I keep dropping back into this thread to see how its going. It's good to see the name calling still in full force, but we now seem to have descended into calls for the end of representative democracy and the dismantlement of capitalism. 

Please explain how a vote, that has been sold as a lie, with misleading 'facts', illegal expenditure and criminal across two vote leave groups, is representative of democracy?

Also please tell me, with actual facts, how the UK and the working class will benefit from the UK leaving the EU.  Please also explain why impact reports from Education, NHS and other front line Public Sector bodies have been silenced.  Once you have satisfied those two questions, perhaps you can also explain why there is a massive staff shortage in the NHS and care homes, as no one wants to come and work here, and a lot of the ones that did, have left.

[GboroRam]

13 hours ago, GenBr said:

I keep dropping back into this thread to see how its going. It's good to see the name calling still in full force, but we now seem to have descended into calls for the end of representative democracy and the dismantlement of capitalism.

I've been trying to keep an eye on the thread and haven't seen any name calling (plenty of people with strong opinions, but as long as it doesn't get personal I'm happy with that). If you see otherwise, please use the report features so we can address them. Thank you for your assistance ?

[maxjam]

12 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

Please explain how a vote, that has been sold as a lie, with misleading 'facts', illegal expenditure and criminal across two vote leave groups, is representative of democracy?

Also please tell me, with actual facts, how the UK and the working class will benefit from the UK leaving the EU.  Please also explain why impact reports from Education, NHS and other front line Public Sector bodies have been silenced.  Once you have satisfied those two questions, perhaps you can also explain why there is a massive staff shortage in the NHS and care homes, as no one wants to come and work here, and a lot of the ones that did, have left.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/01/15/we-dont-exist-to-them-do-we-why-working-class-people-voted-for-brexit/

A lot of people are sick of the status quo and feel like they have been let down by successive governments pandering to big corporations and their lust for cheap labour.  With the recent spike in progressive political correctness not only do they now feel economically detached but they are also being told they are intellectually and morally inferior as well.

Some people voted leave because they have nothing left to lose.  Some people voted leave because they realise that in 10 years time nothing will have changed and they will probably be below the breadline then.  A lot of non-voters voted for the first time at the referendum because it was the first time in a generation that their voices would actually be heard.

[Rev]

 

[McRamFan]

46 minutes ago, maxjam said:

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/01/15/we-dont-exist-to-them-do-we-why-working-class-people-voted-for-brexit/

A lot of people are sick of the status quo and feel like they have been let down by successive governments pandering to big corporations and their lust for cheap labour.  With the recent spike in progressive political correctness not only do they now feel economically detached but they are also being told they are intellectually and morally inferior as well.

Some people voted leave because they have nothing left to lose.  Some people voted leave because they realise that in 10 years time nothing will have changed and they will probably be below the breadline then.  A lot of non-voters voted for the first time at the referendum because it was the first time in a generation that their voices would actually be heard.

That is because both Labour and Tories blamed everything on the EU, which was a bunch of lies.  Yes they voted brexit as a revolt, however it has plunged the country into utter uncertainty and the impact will be on the people on the council house waiting list, those needing care in later years, and trust me, I have seen the impact already.  Never mind the NHS and education, inward investment, exports, research and development and most worrying national security

[GenBr]

14 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

Please explain how a vote, that has been sold as a lie, with misleading 'facts', illegal expenditure and criminal across two vote leave groups, is representative of democracy?

Also please tell me, with actual facts, how the UK and the working class will benefit from the UK leaving the EU.  Please also explain why impact reports from Education, NHS and other front line Public Sector bodies have been silenced.  Once you have satisfied those two questions, perhaps you can also explain why there is a massive staff shortage in the NHS and care homes, as no one wants to come and work here, and a lot of the ones that did, have left.

We are a representative democracy. The MPs are elected to represent the voters in their constituency. The majority of constituencies voted to leave hence the majority of MPs should be representing that choice.

I am sorry you didnt like the result, but that doesnt make it any less legitimate. Just because you think everyone was conned doesnt make it true. Repeatedly stating that you are gods gift to critical thought and everyone else is a lunatic will not win anymore votes to your side as the remain campaign found to their cost in the referendum.

The entire world of politics is based on lies and mis truths. If you want to invalidate the referendum based on that you may as well just give up with general elections altogether. Its up to the people to form their own opinions regardless of what politicians say.

The rest of your post doesnt relate to anything i said, but the working class are already ****** regardless of whether we are in the EU or not especially in the North. If you are concerned about the working class then you should be ecstatic that the manufacturing centres in the north might now be able to recover without the market being swamped by German goods and the weaker pound being good for our exports.

Numerous Brexit impact reports have been published by both the British government and by the European Union, but yes i agree it must all be one big conspiracy - perhaps the lizard people are involved.

The only way the EU is going to survive is if we leave - we block all attempts at closer integration and it limits what they can do to control countries like Italy who are likely to cripple it in the near future.

There is a staff shortage in the nhs because nobody wants to work long hours for little pay. Nor does anyone want to pay so much in tuition fees to train as a doctor on a course that takes longer at Uni than virtually any other course. There is a shortage of engineers as well, but we work in the private sector, so we at least get paid a lot to compensate. The failures in our education system are a British problem - not an EU one.

[Van der MoodHoover]

26 minutes ago, GenBr said:

We are a representative democracy. The MPs are elected to represent the voters in their constituency. The majority of constituencies voted to leave hence the majority of MPs should be representing that choice.

I am sorry you didnt like the result, but that doesnt make it any less legitimate. Just because you think everyone was conned doesnt make it true. Repeatedly stating that you are gods gift to critical thought and everyone else is a lunatic will not win anymore votes to your side as the remain campaign found to their cost in the referendum.

The entire world of politics is based on lies and mis truths. If you want to invalidate the referendum based on that you may as well just give up with general elections altogether. Its up to the people to form their own opinions regardless of what politicians say.

The rest of your post doesnt relate to anything i said, but the working class are already ****** regardless of whether we are in the EU or not especially in the North. If you are concerned about the working class then you should be ecstatic that the manufacturing centres in the north might now be able to recover without the market being swamped by German goods and the weaker pound being good for our exports.

Numerous Brexit impact reports have been published by both the British government and by the European Union, but yes i agree it must all be one big conspiracy - perhaps the lizard people are involved.

The only way the EU is going to survive is if we leave - we block all attempts at closer integration and it limits what they can do to control countries like Italy who are likely to cripple it in the near future.

There is a staff shortage in the nhs because nobody wants to work long hours for little pay. Nor does anyone want to pay so much in tuition fees to train as a doctor on a course that takes longer at Uni than virtually any other course. There is a shortage of engineers as well, but we work in the private sector, so we at least get paid a lot to compensate. The failures in our education system are a British problem - not an EU one.

But that isn't true is it? Not from what I have read.

Why is it so unreasonable for some to be concerned that a decision taken that has such far reaching consequences be rigorously scrutinised,?

A further confirmatory vote seems entirely reasonable to me once we have some greater insights available to us. Both sides in the referendum used large dollops of guesswork and they have both been equally derided. Now that we know a bit better we can simply reaffirm.