The Politics Thread 2019

[GenBr]

1 hour ago, Norman said:

Well, yeah. 

But Corbyn is the leader of the opposition. One who has no stance on Brexit for 40 odd months. 

He cant take a stance on Brexit without destroying any slim election hopes he ever had. If he takes a support Brexit stance there is a good chance he loses a good chunk of his London seats who all voted remain. If he takes an anti Brexit stance he loses a lot of votes in the not London seats where 75% of his constituencies voted leave. 

 

[1of4]

16 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Sorry for being proud of being English and wanting my country to do well, I know that sort of thing is heavily frowned upon these days. 

Would be much safer waving an EU flag.

Oh well you got 2 laughing emojis so well done.

 

7 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Proud to be English as well. I want the people of my country to be free of poverty. Its great that we are all on the same side.?

Proud to be English and a citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Not sure I'll be able to say that in a few years time, if this present brexit deal goes ahead.

[Grumpy Git]

I'm going to ask this question again to all Brexit supporters, because as yet, (on here and other completely separate forums), I've not had ONE answer of any shape or form:

What rule, law or otherwise that currently exists in our country would you change the day after Brexit, to positively improve the lives of normal men, women and children, (that currently cannot be changed due to EU regulations)?

By 'normal' I mean any person or family earning low to average incomes (say £15,000 to £50,000 a year).

[1of4]

3 hours ago, Grumpy Git said:

I'm going to ask this question again to all Brexit supporters, because as yet, (on here and other completely separate forums), I've not had ONE answer of any shape or form:

What rule, law or otherwise that currently exists in our country would you change the day after Brexit, to positively improve the lives of normal men, women and children, (that currently cannot be changed due to EU regulations)?

By 'normal' I mean any person or family earning low to average incomes (say £15,000 to £50,000 a year).

Don't hold your breath waiting. Asked similar questions three years ago. Still no replies.

[ketteringram]

8 hours ago, bigbadbob said:

for one, It'll probably add value to your house.

Been reading this thread for too long. Spent ages thinking about how an extension would effect markets , economy etc. Also wondering why you'd think I care about the value of my house . I don't. I'd be fine if it was declared value less tomorrow. 

Then just now, on the way to work, the penny hit the floor ??

[ariotofmyown]

6 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

Proud to be English as well. I want the people of my country to be free of poverty. Its great that we are all on the same side.?

I think I'm proud to be British rather than English. Maybe as my Grandma is N.Irish and both my Grandads's have Welsh surnames.

I support England football over the other British teams and Ireland, but I always want the other teams to win their other games.

Don't really care too much about Rugby, but would probably support the other home nations vs England.

I am proud that Britain & England are open and tolerant places, who look after our poor better than many other countries, and who are also welcoming and inclusive of foreigners.

 

[G STAR RAM]

5 hours ago, Grumpy Git said:

I'm going to ask this question again to all Brexit supporters, because as yet, (on here and other completely separate forums), I've not had ONE answer of any shape or form:

What rule, law or otherwise that currently exists in our country would you change the day after Brexit, to positively improve the lives of normal men, women and children, (that currently cannot be changed due to EU regulations)?

By 'normal' I mean any person or family earning low to average incomes (say £15,000 to £50,000 a year).

Not sure if they can be changed the day after but:-

1 - Stop freedom of movement, thereby halting influx of cheap labour

2 - Regain our fishing waters

3 - No longer have to abide by the Common Agricultural Policy

4 - Reduce or scrap VAT on goods 

[Angry Ram]

8 hours ago, Highgate said:

 

Labour bias?  I've never even voted in a UK election.

Silly point to make, the two are not related.. I have a Republican bias in the USA but have never voted..

I don’t have to vote to have a preference.. It is clear from your posts that you are left of centre, so it wa a valid point in the original post.

[Sith Happens]

28 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not sure if they can be changed the day after but:-

1 - Stop freedom of movement, thereby halting influx of cheap labour

2 - Regain our fishing waters

3 - No longer have to abide by the Common Agricultural Policy

4 - Reduce or scrap VAT on goods 

For the average person all these are are headlines, but when broken down what do they mean and what will the benefit be?

1. How many people come to the UK each year for work, and how many will come post brexit? Surely people will still be allowed to move for work. What will the rules be? Will it also prevent UK nationals working abroad i.e. summer work in bars etc?

2. Is this significant enough to be a big benefit of brexit? What % of fishing is done in our waters than wont be in future?

3. Whats the benefit of this? I have no idea.

4. Are we seriously going to scrap or reduce VAT? We can anyway cant we? I dont ever remember VAT being below 15% apart from a short period when everything went to crap. Surely if we scrap it its a tax that needs to be collected from somewhere else?

 

 

[A Ram for All Seasons]

7 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Sorry for being proud of being English and wanting my country to do well, I know that sort of thing is heavily frowned upon these days. 

Would be much safer waving an EU flag.

Oh well you got 2 laughing emojis so well done.

I wish people would start to be proud of the things that they are entitled to be proud about, such as their own personal achievements and the good things they have done in the world to help all of us.

I find it very difficult to be proud about the place where I just happened to pop out of my mother's fanny, but I don't "hate England" either.

It would be much better for all of us if people would be proud about the right things.

[G STAR RAM]

Just now, A Ram for All Seasons said:

I wish people would start to be proud of the things that they are entitled to be proud about, such as their own personal achievements and the good things they have done in the world to help all of us.

I find it very difficult to be proud about the place where I just happened to pop out of my mother's fanny, but I don't "hate England" either.

It would be much better for all of us if people would be proud about the right things.

Yep, I'm proud of alot of my own personal achievements too...all done while living in England.

Is it not possible to be proud of both?

[alexxxxx]

People seem to think that if this deal is passed on Saturday, big if, that brexit is done and dusted... Its just the first stage... 

[King Kevin]

This is where it unravels , the UK was supposed to have a referendum which never happen ,democracy hey they just don't believe in it .

National referendums on the
European Constitutional Treaty

Superseded by the Treaty of Lisbon (2007)

Czech Republic: cancelled; never held

Denmark: cancelled; never held

France: No (55% with 69% turnout)

Ireland: cancelled; never held

Luxembourg: Yes (57% with 88% turnout)

Netherlands: No (62% with 63% turnout)

Poland: cancelled; never held

Portugal: cancelled; never held

Spain: Yes (77% with 42% turnout)

United Kingdom: cancelled; never held

 

[alexxxxx]

16 minutes ago, King Kevin said:

This is where it unravels , the UK was supposed to have a referendum which never happen ,democracy hey they just don't believe in it .

National referendums on the
European Constitutional Treaty

Superseded by the Treaty of Lisbon (2007)

Czech Republic: cancelled; never held

Denmark: cancelled; never held

France: No (55% with 69% turnout)

Ireland: cancelled; never held

Luxembourg: Yes (57% with 88% turnout)

Netherlands: No (62% with 63% turnout)

Poland: cancelled; never held

Portugal: cancelled; never held

Spain: Yes (77% with 42% turnout)

United Kingdom: cancelled; never held

 

Why do you feel the Lisbon treaty required a referendum? I don't really understand why people think that the Lisbon treaty is somehow an awful document. Can you explain? 

Ironically it even sets out the way to leave the EU. 

[King Kevin]

8 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

Why do you feel the Lisbon treaty required a referendum? I don't really understand why people think that the Lisbon treaty is somehow an awful document. Can you explain? 

Ironically it even sets out the way to leave the EU. 

It was the start of the slippery slope to political union with the outline to centralised power in Brussels .

Any EU document is awful.

[alexxxxx]

8 minutes ago, King Kevin said:

It was the start of the slippery slope to political union with the outline to centralised power in Brussels .

Any EU document is awful.

I think the EU had been a political union for decades really. Any kind of shared sovereignty is going to do that.

From what I can see all it did is make some structural reforms to improve the efficiency of it all. 

I think the latter point you've made just shows the real reason why many didnt like it. The emotional feeling towards it rather than the text itself. 

[Wolfie]

If Boris's deal gets through, Labour are going to wish they'd supported May's version after all.

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, alexxxxx said:

People seem to think that if this deal is passed on Saturday, big if, that brexit is done and dusted... Its just the first stage... 

And will almost certainly be the first stage of the breakup of the United Kingdom

[Spanish]

12 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

What a funking shambles this Brexit has turned out to be. Did no one think of raising the Irish border problems during the referendum? Did the Leave people not mention it on purpose? Were Remain so complacent they didn't bother? Does anyone still want this farce to continue?

Maybe the 2nd referendum should just be in Northern Ireland?Do you want to be part of an United Ireland and in the EU? Or part of UK and not in the EU?

Scotland can have the same referendum question for independence.

Wales will probably want the same then too, and England can turn into a fully inward looking irrelevance so we can pretend it's like the good old 1950s again: food supplies rationed, openly racist politicians, kids allowed to roam the streets late at night cos we pretend paedos don't exist, no abortions especially for rape victims.

Might be time now to get those Irish passports for me and the kids sorted out.

I recall it was raised but not sure actually when (might have been after the referendum).  Some on here were calling it 'project fear' and a 'red herring' made up by remainers.  I cross a border every day so I am very interested in this matter

[Grumpy Git]

3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not sure if they can be changed the day after but:-

1 - Stop freedom of movement, thereby halting influx of cheap labour

2 - Regain our fishing waters

3 - No longer have to abide by the Common Agricultural Policy

4 - Reduce or scrap VAT on goods 

1. Not going to happen as our Tory paymasters love cheap labour in their businesses.

2. Come back to me in a couple of years and let me know whats changed to our benefit.

3. Strange one as our farmers get massive EU subsidies, yet I saw lots of "out" posters in their fields (maybe our farmers are jealous of their French counterparts)?

4. Tories love VAT as it means a bloke earning £20K pays the same for his stuff as a bloke earning £200K, (but the bloke on £200K pays much lower overall tax as a proportion of his income - who'd a thunk it), so not going to happen. VAT was 8% when I started work in 1978, but Maggie Thatcher almost doubled it to 15% when she became PM in 1979 (she reduced income tax, so VAT had to go up - which hurts the working man more).