The Politics Thread 2019

[cannable]

1 hour ago, Van Gritters said:

I suppose it depends who wins because if it doesn’t go some of these bad losers way we’ll never move forward they’ve done everything possible to stop us carrying through what the majority voted for and don’t come back with the old technicality baalocks.

Patronising baalocks like this gets my back up. Being a bad loser is not getting over Zamora 90th minute or running on the pitch to smack Kelvin Wilson. Fighting something you believe will damage the country because laymen were trusted with a vote on the technicalities of trade agreements, judicial precedent and legislation… isn’t. 

[Ambitious]

21 minutes ago, cannable said:

Patronising baalocks like this gets my back up. Being a bad loser is not getting over Zamora 90th minute or running on the pitch to smack Kelvin Wilson. Fighting something you believe will damage the country because laymen were trusted with a vote on the technicalities of trade agreements, judicial precedent and legislation… isn’t. 

I agree, completely. 

It goes the other way, I personally wouldn't expect leave voters to shut up and step the line if we remained. People absolutely have the right to fight for what they believe, in every single walk of life, not just this matter. It goes for both sides of every argument. 

People shouldn't be apologetic about being a bad loser. I'd much, much rather be seen as a bad loser than a 'gracious' loser. 

[uttoxram75]

3 hours ago, ossieram said:

 Do you seriously think all Labours members support him? I know quite a few Labour members including shop stewards who can't stand him.

Is it Labour policies or Corbyn you dislike Ossie?

If Labour had similar policies but a different leader would that bring back some Labour voters?

My problem is that I believe any Labour leader with a manifesto of public ownership of the NHS, and all the other services most of us rely on, would face just as bad a character assassination as Corbyn has been bombarded with.

A younger, more media savvy leader would be a more difficult a target but he or she would still face a daily assault from the Tory media.

 

Maybe people have moved on and us lot fighting to maintain public services have lost the battle. 

Farage has said tonight that he will join a pact with a no deal Tory party to win the election and keep Labour out.  Between them they have most of the media in their pocket and huge financial backing from rich, powerful and secretive backers.

It makes me feel sick that so many working class people think that members of the elite like Farage and Johnson will ever do anything to try and improve the lives of ordinary working people but I suppose if you read it everyday in the papers it becomes the truth.

We're ducked.

 

 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Ambitious said:

I agree, completely. 

It goes the other way, I personally wouldn't expect leave voters to shut up and step the line if we remained. People absolutely have the right to fight for what they believe, in every single walk of life, not just this matter. It goes for both sides of every argument. 

People shouldn't be apologetic about being a bad loser. I'd much, much rather be seen as a bad loser than a 'gracious' loser. 

Farage said that "52:48 would mean that we have unfinished business". So remainers are only following his recommendations.

[ariotofmyown]

4 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

Is it Labour policies or Corbyn you dislike Ossie?

If Labour had similar policies but a different leader would that bring back some Labour voters?

My problem is that I believe any Labour leader with a manifesto of public ownership of the NHS, and all the other services most of us rely on, would face just as bad a character assassination as Corbyn has been bombarded with.

A younger, more media savvy leader would be a more difficult a target but he or she would still face a daily assault from the Tory media.

 

Maybe people have moved on and us lot fighting to maintain public services have lost the battle. 

Farage has said tonight that he will join a pact with a no deal Tory party to win the election and keep Labour out.  Between them they have most of the media in their pocket and huge financial backing from rich, powerful and secretive backers.

It makes me feel sick that so many working class people think that members of the elite like Farage and Johnson will ever do anything to try and improve the lives of ordinary working people but I suppose if you read it everyday in the papers it becomes the truth.

We're ducked.

 

 

Who cares about boring old policies? It's all about personalities.

Farage is a proper lad, loves a pint, hates the EU and I'm sure has the best interests of the people at heart. He'll look after us.

Boris too. He has great charisma and is a real good laugh. See that epic speech he gave yesterday in front if those friendly coppers. He respects democracy and knows that the people voted Brexit and it simply must happen, regardless of the consequences. 

I don't really know any of the details, but I'm sure he said something about hospitals so I know he cares about the NHS. His Leave campaign was purely driven by wanting to give 350 million to the NHS every week too.

Those 2 are proper leaders, whereas everyone in the country hates Corbyn. His policies are getting rid of our armed services and police that the Tories always look after. As a Communist, he supports the Russians and they are probably funding him. He used to be in the IRA I think, whereas the Tories just want continued peace in Northern Ireland. He hates jews too whereas Boris and the Tories all care passionately about everyone regardless of race, colour, religion and whether they went to Eton or not. I know literally nothing about Venezuela, but I know he wants to turn the UK into it apparently.

Corbyn is too much of a chicken to nuke other countries and now he is too much of a chicken to agree to a general election. Can you believe his hypocrisy! Just the other month he was saying he wanted an election, and now him, plus all the other parties, want to delay a few days! Makes me sick.

[ossieram]

6 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

If Labour had similar policies but a different leader would that bring back some Labour voters?

Getting rid of Corbyn would help, but they would have to sweep a few others away with him. People Like Abbot and also the Momentum mob along with stopping their support along with the unions of Antifa.

I'm no supporter of Fascism, but I reckon these loony left mobs are closer to the fascists than those they oppose.

[bcnram]

11 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

No of course not. I said he was marmite - people either love him or hate him. I know plenty of Labour friends who have a problem with him.

My point is that 2 separate posters here have claimed that he is NOT marmite because EVERYONE hates him.

Patently not true. That's all

 

He is definitely marmite, I think he and most (but not all) his closest backroom would be disastrous for the country. Having said that, I think those who organise his rallies do a great job and he has had some brilliant advice over the last week. A Tony Blair type Labour leader I am ok with. Johnson has many faults but he will get things done and that is what we need desperately after the last three years. 

[G STAR RAM]

8 hours ago, Ambitious said:

I agree, completely. 

It goes the other way, I personally wouldn't expect leave voters to shut up and step the line if we remained. People absolutely have the right to fight for what they believe, in every single walk of life, not just this matter. It goes for both sides of every argument. 

People shouldn't be apologetic about being a bad loser. I'd much, much rather be seen as a bad loser than a 'gracious' loser. 

I agree that people should continue to fight for what they believe in. 

Anyone that believes in overturning a democratic vote are a disgrace though.

By all means start formulating a plan for rejoining the EU in the future, but thinking you can overturn the vote of 17.4m people is shameful.

[G STAR RAM]

4 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Who cares about boring old policies? It's all about personalities.

Farage is a proper lad, loves a pint, hates the EU and I'm sure has the best interests of the people at heart. He'll look after us.

Boris too. He has great charisma and is a real good laugh. See that epic speech he gave yesterday in front if those friendly coppers. He respects democracy and knows that the people voted Brexit and it simply must happen, regardless of the consequences. 

I don't really know any of the details, but I'm sure he said something about hospitals so I know he cares about the NHS. His Leave campaign was purely driven by wanting to give 350 million to the NHS every week too.

Those 2 are proper leaders, whereas everyone in the country hates Corbyn. His policies are getting rid of our armed services and police that the Tories always look after. As a Communist, he supports the Russians and they are probably funding him. He used to be in the IRA I think, whereas the Tories just want continued peace in Northern Ireland. He hates jews too whereas Boris and the Tories all care passionately about everyone regardless of race, colour, religion and whether they went to Eton or not. I know literally nothing about Venezuela, but I know he wants to turn the UK into it apparently.

Corbyn is too much of a chicken to nuke other countries and now he is too much of a chicken to agree to a general election. Can you believe his hypocrisy! Just the other month he was saying he wanted an election, and now him, plus all the other parties, want to delay a few days! Makes me sick.

The thing is many Leave voters can see the flaws in both Farage and Johnson and admit them.

The only reason I give them the time of day is because I think they can force Brexit through and end 3 years of turmoil and give the country the opportunity to move forward.

It appears though that Corbyn supporters won't have bad word said about him and everything is a media smear, even when evidence is provided showing that it's not a smear but actual facts.

I know your above post is supposed to be ironic but to me its actually not too far away from reality.

[McRamFan]

22 hours ago, Norman said:

I would consider reading my post before spouting off. Where did I say they impose austerity on us?

If you think they haven't imposed strict austerity measures on member states, then good for you.

 

I did read it, you inferred that the EU imposed austerity on the UK, now you are back tracking.  Austerity is a hard right attitude, keep the rich getting richer and the poor screwed over, if you look at the UK model.  The UK knocked that domino over first.

 

[McRamFan]

30 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I agree that people should continue to fight for what they believe in. 

Anyone that believes in overturning a democratic vote are a disgrace though.

By all means start formulating a plan for rejoining the EU in the future, but thinking you can overturn the vote of 17.4m people is shameful.

It was not a democratic exercise, in fact referendums are notorious in how bias they are. Benito Mussolini in 1934, Adolf Hitler in 1936, Ferdinand Marcos in 1973, Park Chung-hee in 1972, Francisco Franco in 1947 and Robert Mugabe from the 80's for 30 years.  Go do some research on how dictators use referendums and show elections to legitimise their claim to power.

Boris Johnson saw this way back in 2015, and carefully plotted his path to the top, got derailed by Gove, however played the game with May in charge, undermining her at every step.  He voted against her every time, however if he gets voted against, he sacks them. He is the Pied piper, played you all for fools, and if not him Farage mopped up the stragglers.

[Ghost of Clough]

20 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

I did read it, you inferred that the EU imposed austerity on the UK, now you are back tracking.  Austerity is a hard right attitude, keep the rich getting richer and the poor screwed over, if you look at the UK model.  The UK knocked that domino over first.

 

No, he made no reference to the UK. Aren't Greece, Portugal, Spain and Italy examples of this?

[Norman]

21 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

I did read it, you inferred that the EU imposed austerity on the UK, now you are back tracking.  Austerity is a hard right attitude, keep the rich getting richer and the poor screwed over, if you look at the UK model.  The UK knocked that domino over first.

 

No i didn't. I just stated the EU likes imposing austerity.

You hate the Tories for doing it but won't criticise the EU for doing worse. 

We can vote to end austerity in this country. The EU imposes it via an undemocratically appointed board. 

[McRamFan]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yes I think you've told us we are all fools on numerous occasions, and you're the only one clever enough to know all of the facts etc, it's getting really quite tiresome and boring.

Never thought I'd stoop so low, because I generally like reading other peoples views, but your arrogance and the way you talk down to anyone with a different view to you is pushing me towards putting you on ignore.

Nope, I don't know all the facts, and that is why I do not trust what is happening.  I do know, for a fact, that the government has gagged the NHS from making pubic, information on both soft and hard brexit. 

I am in daily contact with a number of NHS trusts, and have heard the fears and concerns from the front line staff.  I have seen the departure of health care professionals, some I have known for years, from both Europe and the ROTW, since brexit reared its ugly head, I have heard patients tell HCP's to go back to their own country, even when they have been born here.  I expect I will hear more today, because I heard it yesterday, the day before, last week, last month and the last 3 years.

Please feel free to ignore me, after all ignorance is bliss.

[Stive Pesley]

9 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

My problem is that I believe any Labour leader with a manifesto of public ownership of the NHS, and all the other services most of us rely on, would face just as bad a character assassination as Corbyn has been bombarded with.

A younger, more media savvy leader would be a more difficult a target but he or she would still face a daily assault from the Tory media.

Correct - we're all young enough to remember what happened to Ed Miliband. Smears about his father, continual portrayal of how his policies would lead to chaos, and then finally resorting to mocking the way he ate a bacon sandwich?! Looking back now, it's harf to think what he did to deserve that treatment. Then the penny drops

When will people get it? Those who own the media, own the country

 

11 hours ago, Montgolfier said:

anyone who votes for the Tories, especially with Cummings as Prime Minister, is just plain mental and needs locking up..

I think that's a bit harsh. There is no need to threaten incarceration, but as the old adage goes:

Anyone who votes Tory is either rich or a fool

To find out which you are- check your bank statements

 

[McRamFan]

13 minutes ago, Norman said:

No i didn't. I just stated the EU likes imposing austerity.

You hate the Tories for doing it but won't criticise the EU for doing worse. 

We can vote to end austerity in this country. The EU imposes it via an undemocratically appointed board. 

Proof please. 

[G STAR RAM]

26 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

Nope, I don't know all the facts, and that is why I do not trust what is happening.  I do know, for a fact, that the government has gagged the NHS from making pubic, information on both soft and hard brexit. 

I am in daily contact with a number of NHS trusts, and have heard the fears and concerns from the front line staff.  I have seen the departure of health care professionals, some I have known for years, from both Europe and the ROTW, since brexit reared its ugly head, I have heard patients tell HCP's to go back to their own country, even when they have been born here.  I expect I will hear more today, because I heard it yesterday, the day before, last week, last month and the last 3 years.

Please feel free to ignore me, after all ignorance is bliss.

To be honest I think it's probably a good idea not to be sharing pubic information, unless we are looking to adopt the Brazilian model.

[G STAR RAM]

28 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

Nope, I don't know all the facts, and that is why I do not trust what is happening.  I do know, for a fact, that the government has gagged the NHS from making pubic, information on both soft and hard brexit. 

I am in daily contact with a number of NHS trusts, and have heard the fears and concerns from the front line staff.  I have seen the departure of health care professionals, some I have known for years, from both Europe and the ROTW, since brexit reared its ugly head, I have heard patients tell HCP's to go back to their own country, even when they have been born here.  I expect I will hear more today, because I heard it yesterday, the day before, last week, last month and the last 3 years.

Please feel free to ignore me, after all ignorance is bliss.

Back to seriousness, are you saying people are leaving the NHS based on something that hasn't happened and may never happen?

I've heard people telling other people to go back to their own country for the last 40 years, not really sure what that has to do with Brexit?

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

I agree that people should continue to fight for what they believe in. 

Anyone that believes in overturning a democratic vote are a disgrace though.

By all means start formulating a plan for rejoining the EU in the future, but thinking you can overturn the vote of 17.4m people is shameful.

I was called a traitor, just last night. The person who said it also reckons that Corbyn, in voting to not allow Johnson a free ride to an October 15 election, is guilty of Treason and should be locked up in the Tower of London. 

This is where we are now. No compromise, no surrender. People are going to die.

[Wolfie]

1 hour ago, McRamFan said:

Austerity is a hard right attitude, keep the rich getting richer and the poor screwed over, if you look at the UK model.

 

Proof please. Seeing as that's what you expect of others.

Prove to me that Austerity, rather than the official version:  An attempt to get the country living within its means, following years of overspend and the fallout from financial crisis, is a deliberate right wing policy to enrich the already rich and enslave the poor.