GboroRam Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 18 minutes ago, ossieram said: Do you seriously think all Labours members support him? I know quite a few Labour members including shop stewards who can't stand him. He's very popular with the party members. He's obviously a good target for the right wing press, and I'll agree he's not a polished performer at the despatch box. But give me a politician with policies I agree with over a politician who looks good in a suit (maybe he also eats a bacon butty with panache, for good measure) but sexes up reports in order to bomb countries. Hopefully brexit will be delayed long enough to ensure elections, a general election can be organised, and the country can move forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 38 minutes ago, ossieram said: Do you seriously think all Labours members support him? I know quite a few Labour members including shop stewards who can't stand him. No of course not. I said he was marmite - people either love him or hate him. I know plenty of Labour friends who have a problem with him. My point is that 2 separate posters here have claimed that he is NOT marmite because EVERYONE hates him. Patently not true. That's all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 6 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said: And some of those old farts that voted leave in 2016 will have kicked the bucket by now. My daughter was not old enough to vote in 2016 wanted to remain in the EU but now given the chance she would vote to leave. My dad voted leave is 83 years old still going strong and a life long Labour supporter sorry to disappoint you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 55 minutes ago, Uptherams said: It's been happening for the last 3 years. Many reasonable-thinking people are now flocking to the Liberal Democrats, who I am pretty sure will absolutely hoover up just about all the 'new' voters and will do very well in many areas. The Conservatives will quite possibly be utterly wiped out in Scotland - I fully expect another 'hung' parliament with the SNP and Lib Dems holding a very strong bargaining position. Of course, I have been wrong before, but I'm willing to wait and see. Timing is everything, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 14 minutes ago, cstand said: My daughter was not old enough to vote in 2016 wanted to remain in the EU but now given the chance she would vote to leave. My dad voted leave is 83 years old still going strong and a life long Labour supporter sorry to disappoint you. Yes, I'm disappointed your dad is still alive. My gran too. Keeps hanging in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossieram Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 19 minutes ago, GboroRam said: He's very popular with the party members. He's obviously a good target for the right wing press, and I'll agree he's not a polished performer at the despatch box. But give me a politician with policies I agree with over a politician who looks good in a suit (maybe he also eats a bacon butty with panache, for good measure) but sexes up reports in order to bomb countries. Hopefully brexit will be delayed long enough to ensure elections, a general election can be organised, and the country can move forward. I'm not sure even he agrees with all of their ploicies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, Montgolfier said: Many reasonable-thinking people are now flocking to the Liberal Democrats, who I am pretty sure will absolutely hoover up just about all the 'new' voters and will do very well in many areas. The Conservatives will quite possibly be utterly wiped out in Scotland - I fully expect another 'hung' parliament with the SNP and Lib Dems holding a very strong bargaining position. Of course, I have been wrong before, but I'm willing to wait and see. Timing is everything, of course. They will be lucky to get 17% vote share and struggle to get 45 MPS. That's not me saying I like or dislike them, it's just the reality. Heck, the Lib Dems becoming more popular puts Labour in a terrible position. This is the Brexit Party strategy. In the North, in Labour seats, they face less of a battle to take those seats away from Labour because of the Lib Dems. Everyone knows the Conservatives and the Brexit party won't do well in places like Scotland and London. That's what people need to realise when they look at national polling figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 48 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: No of course not. I said he was marmite - people either love him or hate him. I know plenty of Labour friends who have a problem with him. My point is that 2 separate posters here have claimed that he is NOT marmite because EVERYONE hates him. Patently not true. That's all Goes without saying he is not hated by everyone but to lead a party into government or be a successful opposition leader you to have to appeal to the general public and not just your own members. Pity John Smith died so suddenly in 1994 think he would made a very good PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 7 hours ago, LE_Ram said: In 2016 I didn't vote (too young, wasn't eligible) but I did advocate a leave vote because I believed we'd be able to get a good withdrawal deal and negotiate a favourable trade deal post-Brexit. Not having a withdrawal deal will save us a lot of money. Do you not think a trade deal will be negotiated after we have left? I now think that the only was forward is a second referendum - the facts have substantially changed and we now actually know what form Brexit will take - either No Deal, or May Deal, there simply isn't the appetite on the part of the EU to renegotiate what was offered to Theresa May. Interested to know what facts have substantially changed? As stated above, No Deal is a snapshot in time, it means we leave without a deal and dont pay for the privilege of leaving. It gives no indication whatsoever of what may be negotiated going forward. The problem with the initial referendum was that Leave is a very ambiguous term. It doesn't specify which type of Brexit we were going for - how many people in 2016 who voted Brexit wanted no deal, or a soft Brexit, or other form of exit from the EU. If Leave is an ambiguous term then so was Remain. Was it Remain in the EU as it is now? Remain in the EU with new countries joining? Remain in the EU and become part of an EU army? Remain in the EU and have contributions increased? Remain in the EU and bail out country after country? People voted Leave full stop. What we need is a proper referendum with clear, defined options. The way it's done is up for debate - personally I'd whittle down all the leave terms so that we end up with one form of leave vs. remain - e.g. 1st referendum is No Deal vs May Deal, second referendum is the winner of the first vs Remain. The options were crystal clear. Leave or Remain. What is not clear about that? So you want Remain to get a bye through to the final vote? Sounds reasonable. It isn't undemocratic to do this as some people suggest - why should we blindly follow the result of the 2016 referendum when the facts have changed? If you went to a restaurant, ordered a steak, and they served you a turd on a plate, would you just blindly eat it because you've already made the decision? Or would you think that the circumstances have changed and alter your first decision? Not implementing the result of a democratic vote is not undemocratic? I will ask again, what facts have changed since the Referendum? The analogy is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 27 minutes ago, Uptherams said: They will be lucky to get 17% vote share and struggle to get 45 MPS. That's not me saying I like or dislike them, it's just the reality. Heck, the Lib Dems becoming more popular puts Labour in a terrible position. This is the Brexit Party strategy. In the North, in Labour seats, they face less of a battle to take those seats away from Labour because of the Lib Dems. Everyone knows the Conservatives and the Brexit party won't do well in places like Scotland and London. That's what people need to realise when they look at national polling figures. Yes, but if the SNP clean up in Scotland and the LibDems make a good showing, that would more than likely ensure that they together would become 'kingmakers'. The Conservative Party cannot possibly win under Johnson - the man is an idiot. What am I saying? Of course they can win. The Sun and Mail will try to see to that. Expect stories about Corbyn eating badgers or raping cats in the next few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 hour ago, GboroRam said: He's very popular with the party members. He's obviously a good target for the right wing press, and I'll agree he's not a polished performer at the despatch box. But give me a politician with policies I agree with over a politician who looks good in a suit (maybe he also eats a bacon butty with panache, for good measure) but sexes up reports in order to bomb countries. Hopefully brexit will be delayed long enough to ensure elections, a general election can be organised, and the country can move forward. I suppose it depends who wins because if it doesn’t go some of these bad losers way we’ll never move forward they’ve done everything possible to stop us carrying through what the majority voted for and don’t come back with the old technicality baalocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 8 hours ago, Montgolfier said: The first MP on record to resign from Parliament in order to spend less time with his family. Do you think Jo said to Boris, have I got news for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, Montgolfier said: Yes, but if the SNP clean up in Scotland and the LibDems make a good showing, that would more than likely ensure that they together would become 'kingmakers'. The Conservative Party cannot possibly win under Johnson - the man is an idiot. What am I saying? Of course they can win. The Sun and Mail will try to see to that. Expect stories about Corbyn eating badgers or raping cats in the next few weeks. The SNP and Libe Dems will get 100 seats combined. In other elections that may have made them Kingmakers. The Kingmaker of this election will be the Brexit party. You're not being rational... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 hour ago, SchtivePesley said: No of course not. I said he was marmite - people either love him or hate him. I know plenty of Labour friends who have a problem with him. My point is that 2 separate posters here have claimed that he is NOT marmite because EVERYONE hates him. Patently not true. That's all Who said that then? Because if it isn’t word for word I want another referendum and you have lied to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, Uptherams said: The SNP and Libe Dems will get 100 seats combined. In other elections that may have made them Kingmakers. The Kingmaker of this election will be the Brexit party. You're not being rational... Oh, I've been accused of much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Montgolfier said: Many reasonable-thinking people are now flocking to the Liberal Democrats, who I am pretty sure will absolutely hoover up just about all the 'new' voters and will do very well in many areas. The Conservatives will quite possibly be utterly wiped out in Scotland - I fully expect another 'hung' parliament with the SNP and Lib Dems holding a very strong bargaining position. Of course, I have been wrong before, but I'm willing to wait and see. Timing is everything, of course. Anyone who votes for Lib Dem after the poo show that was Nick Clegg should give there head a wobble . perhaps those holding them up as saviour of remain should consider it was Lib Dem that kept Cameron as PM . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: Anyone who votes for Lib Dem after the poo show that was Nick Clegg should give there head a wobble . perhaps those holding them up as saviour of remain should consider it was Lib Dem that kept Cameron as PM . You have a valid point, but on the other hand, anyone who votes for the Tories, especially with Cummings as Prime Minister, is just plain mental and needs locking up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 8 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said: And some of those old farts that voted leave in 2016 will have kicked the bucket by now. Umm. You don't agree with me so lets hope your dead or will be soon . Pleasant . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 I have several friends who are both landed gentry and Members of the House of Lord's, who wouldn't dream of voting for Boris Johnson. He's finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 25 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: Umm. You don't agree with me so lets hope your dead or will be soon . Pleasant . That's quite likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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