The Politics Thread 2019

[Eddie]

58 minutes ago, cstand said:

You mean the pensioners who worked their fingers to the bone to put this country back on its feet after the Second World War, the ones who voted to join the common market not the EU.  

You are the leader of euthanasia UK and I claim prize of death by injection at the your predetermined age on which old people are not allowed to vote. 

Does anybody else struggle to make any sense whatsoever of this post?

[Wolfie]

19 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

That's also an opinion. I think there are plenty of people who would disagree with you. Those using food banks, sleeping on the streets, waiting for NHS operations, unable to get Doctors appointments, unable to afford to buy a house, watching food/utilities bills continually increase, struggling to navigate their way through Universal Credit, PIP etc...I could go on

Personally I'm in a far worse position financially, no pay rise for 5 years, and annual bonuses scrapped, so I'm earning a lot less in the same job - both in real terms and even worse when you consider the cost of living increases over that time

 

So am I. Except that I'm only in year 3 with no pay rise - primarily due to the uncertainty surrounding Brexit.

I meant as a country, we are better off now than we were a few years ago. New choices can be made, now the finances are in a better state.

[Eddie]

26 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

That's also an opinion. I think there are plenty of people who would disagree with you. Those using food banks, sleeping on the streets, waiting for NHS operations, unable to get Doctors appointments, unable to afford to buy a house, watching food/utilities bills continually increase, struggling to navigate their way through Universal Credit, PIP etc...I could go on

Personally I'm in a far worse position financially, no pay rise for 5 years, and annual bonuses scrapped, so I'm earning a lot less in the same job - both in real terms and even worse when you consider the cost of living increases over that time

 

I think he meant that he was in a better position now, and that's all that counts to Tories.

[cannable]

2 minutes ago, Montgolfier said:

Does anybody else struggle to make any sense whatsoever of this post?

My immediate thought was Geoffrey Boycott going off on one about how if we can win World Wars we can survive Brexit ?

[GboroRam]

37 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said:

That's an opinion.

One fact is that, if the objective was to stop borrowing altogether, then it has failed. However, the current borrowing rate is around 2% of GDP - which means that with an inlfation rate & target of 2%, the amount of national debt isn't increasing in real terms. I'd call that staying within our means. Close enough for me anyway.

Borrowing hasn't increased, as you claim but of course the national debt has, because you can't stop borrowing the amounts we were, post-crash, overnight. It amuses me when the left attack austerity and at the same time attack for increased national debt. Presumably they would prefer to increase spending further instead and aim for high inflation - dealing with the debt in that way. Oh, and wiping out everyone's savings at the same time.

We are in a much better state as a country (financially) now than we were 6-7 years ago and future governments will be able to spend a bit more freely.

Borrowing hasn't increased but the divide between rich and poor is growing faster than ever. Austerity is hurting those at the bottom, meanwhile those at the top are getting more of the pie than ever. Austerity is only good for a very small percentage of the country. Evidence that we never were all "in it together". The share of the pie needs to change. Unfortunately the EU gets blamed for much of the trouble, which in my opinion is unfair. 

We need a Labour government to address the growing inequalities in the country. When that's addressed, the EU in/out question can be asked without it muddying the waters. Right now people are supporting leave for a myriad of reasons and have a myriad of views of what it means.

[Norman]

5 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

But in actual fact - if that ever came to pass (being forced to take the Euro when we've always been able to veto that - and also schengen) - they would be issues actually worthy of a referendum!

Personally don't think we would have one.

But back to austerity.

[Wolfie]

3 minutes ago, Montgolfier said:

I think he meant that he was in a better position now.

I'm not (as per my reply above). I'm dealing with it by getting new qualifications in my spare time and applying for new jobs.

I suppose you'd prefer it if I blamed my woes on everyone who earns more than I do and expect a free hand-out.

[G STAR RAM]

44 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Remainders are not shouting at people to go back to their own countries or intimidating them on social media or actually physically attacking them. All of this has happened to colleagues or clients of ours in the last 3 years. 

It’s happening. Now. Because you don’t believe it does not mean it doesn’t exist. 

Wasnt you earlier, basically, wishing death upon older members of society that voted Leave? Apologies if it wasnt you.

Remainers have been telling leavers how thick they are for the last 3 years.

Did none of this happen to colleagues before the last 3 years?

Just because you want to pretend these things didnt happen before the Referendum, does not mean they didnt happen.

[cstand]

21 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

All of which are a far cry from fighting on the beaches, now, aren't they? Yet they are proudly proclaiming they won the war. They may have picked up the pieces afterwards, but they weren't the ones fighting. And won't be again, if they are from that age demographic.

Who on earth are you on about fighting in the war, on the beaches etc !!!

So the leftwing propaganda is no longer smash the Tories it's smash the pensioners the very people who if they had not voted to join the common market would mean we would not be in the EU.

 

[Stive Pesley]

15 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said:

So am I. Except that I'm only in year 3 with no pay rise - primarily due to the uncertainty surrounding Brexit.

I meant as a country, we are better off now than we were a few years ago. New choices can be made, now the finances are in a better state.

I'm not really qualified to judge the state of the national finances, but I'll take your analysis as true. Boris Johnson is the last person I'd trust to make those new choices. He doesn't care about people like you and me.

 

[Wolfie]

2 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

I'm not really qualified to judge the state of the national finances, but I'll take your analysis as true. Boris Johnson is the last person I'd trust to make those new choices. He doesn't care about people like you and me.

 

Amen to that. I wouldn't trust him to tell me the time.

[cstand]

3 hours ago, McRamFan said:

It was not a democratic exercise, in fact referendums are notorious in how bias they are. Benito Mussolini in 1934, Adolf Hitler in 1936, Ferdinand Marcos in 1973, Park Chung-hee in 1972, Francisco Franco in 1947 and Robert Mugabe from the 80's for 30 years.  Go do some research on how dictators use referendums and show elections to legitimise their claim to power.

Boris Johnson saw this way back in 2015, and carefully plotted his path to the top, got derailed by Gove, however played the game with May in charge, undermining her at every step.  He voted against her every time, however if he gets voted against, he sacks them. He is the Pied piper, played you all for fools, and if not him Farage mopped up the stragglers.

Yes referendums are bias to the sum of 9 million pounds by a remain government.

[GboroRam]

13 minutes ago, cstand said:

Who on earth are you on about fighting in the war, on the beaches etc !!!

So the leftwing propaganda is no longer smash the Tories it's smash the pensioners the very people who if they had not voted to join the common market would mean we would not be in the EU. 

 

It's not me discussing the war.

 

[tomsdubs]

36 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

All of which are a far cry from fighting on the beaches, now, aren't they? Yet they are proudly proclaiming they won the war. They may have picked up the pieces afterwards, but they weren't the ones fighting. And won't be again, if they are from that age demographic.

The irony of these types hating the greatest peace time collaboration in modern history of European nations vowing never to fight again and calling them dictators. Just feels like a lot of people have lost sight of how the world used to be, older generations that didn't grow up in the information age are way too easily led astray.

[cstand]

13 hours ago, Ambitious said:

I agree, completely. 

It goes the other way, I personally wouldn't expect leave voters to shut up and step the line if we remained. People absolutely have the right to fight for what they believe, in every single walk of life, not just this matter. It goes for both sides of every argument. 

People shouldn't be apologetic about being a bad loser. I'd much, much rather be seen as a bad loser than a 'gracious' loser. 

Totally disagree the EU referendum was to solve the in or out EU question for a generation winner takes all the so country can more forward on which ever direction the people decided.  

I expected everyone to accept the result whatever the outcome I am truly shocked at people in this country who think the have the right to overturn the referendum.

If remain had won I would have accepted the result.

[cstand]

7 minutes ago, tomsdubs said:

The irony of these types hating the greatest peace time collaboration in modern history of European nations vowing never to fight again and calling them dictators. Just feels like a lot of people have lost sight of how the world used to be, older generations that didn't grow up in the information age are way too easily led astray.

You don't have to be in the EU to agree not to go to war. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

30 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Wasnt you earlier, basically, wishing death upon older members of society that voted Leave? Apologies if it wasnt you.

Remainers have been telling leavers how thick they are for the last 3 years.

Did none of this happen to colleagues before the last 3 years?

Just because you want to pretend these things didnt happen before the Referendum, does not mean they didnt happen.

Yes it was me. In jest. But get offended if you like.

I am not pretending such things didn't happen. None of my colleagues reported any abuse based on their nationality before the referendum campaign. Of course they could have kept it to themselves, I don't know. I wonder why they would do that then wait until the last 18 months or so to decide to up and leave.

Nationalists have been emboldened by the tone of the referendum. We have become a more febrile society. Our business has suffered over the past 3 years because people are concerned about coming to the UK. Embassies have warned their sponsored clients to stay indoors on certain days - like when there is a far right protest (they have, so far as I am aware, not done so when a remainer protest takes place). That didn't happen before the referendum campaign. This kind of thing is far more prevalent than it was. Why do you think that is? 

You don't, of course, have to believe any of this.

[AndyinLiverpool]

11 minutes ago, cstand said:

You don't have to be in the EU to agree not to go to war. 

No but it helps.

[cstand]

35 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

It's not me discussing the war.

 

Not me either discussing the war on FB don't do twitter either,  but you are tarring every old person with the same brush because two people on FB have raised these comments, blimey.

I do use FB occasionally but nothing is posted about politics just for the record. 

 

[ariotofmyown]

5 minutes ago, cstand said:

Not me either discussing the war on FB don't do twitter either,  but you are tarring every old person with the same brush because two people on FB have raised these comments, blimey.

 

These are the moderates ones! (Probably)