cstand Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 Just now, ariotofmyown said: These are the moderates ones! (Probably) Never new ageism was rife on this forum when did this begin can only assume you all use the same leftwing propaganda sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: The thing is many Leave voters can see the flaws in both Farage and Johnson and admit them. The only reason I give them the time of day is because I think they can force Brexit through and end 3 years of turmoil and give the country the opportunity to move forward. It appears though that Corbyn supporters won't have bad word said about him and everything is a media smear, even when evidence is provided showing that it's not a smear but actual facts. I know your above post is supposed to be ironic but to me its actually not too far away from reality. You are right. It was very close to reality as this is what people genuinely think after years of biased reporting. They said the same sort of thing about Red Ed too, with his Stalinst Energy Price cap that the Tories then decided to copy. Criticise Corbyn for his policies, even though they are actually pretty popular. People are so obsessed with who the leader is. Labour's policies have come from the party and the people who are in it, hence they are popular. Johnson/Cummings are making them up as they go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, cstand said: Never new ageism was rife on this forum when did this begin can only assume you all use the same leftwing propaganda sites. The only left win propaganda site I use is this one. Which sites did the guy who murdered Jo Cox use? He was even more extreme than these ones on FB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: Johnson/Cummings are making them up as they go. I think you will find that describes Corbyn very well too. Doesn't like the EU, promises to deliver the result of the referendum, no policy in the European elections, wants a general election, now he doesn't. They are all as bad as each other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 1 hour ago, GboroRam said: Borrowing hasn't increased but the divide between rich and poor is growing faster than ever. Austerity is hurting those at the bottom, meanwhile those at the top are getting more of the pie than ever. Austerity is only good for a very small percentage of the country. Evidence that we never were all "in it together". The share of the pie needs to change. Unfortunately the EU gets blamed for much of the trouble, which in my opinion is unfair. We need a Labour government to address the growing inequalities in the country. When that's addressed, the EU in/out question can be asked without it muddying the waters. Right now people are supporting leave for a myriad of reasons and have a myriad of views of what it means. "the divide between rich and poor is growing faster than ever" Actually according to the ONS the wage gap between the top and bottom has actually shrank between 2010-2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 23 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Yes it was me. In jest. But get offended if you like. I am not pretending such things didn't happen. None of my colleagues reported any abuse based on their nationality before the referendum campaign. Of course they could have kept it to themselves, I don't know. I wonder why they would do that then wait until the last 18 months or so to decide to up and leave. Nationalists have been emboldened by the tone of the referendum. We have become a more febrile society. Our business has suffered over the past 3 years because people are concerned about coming to the UK. Embassies have warned their sponsored clients to stay indoors on certain days - like when there is a far right protest (they have, so far as I am aware, not done so when a remainer protest takes place). That didn't happen before the referendum campaign. This kind of thing is far more prevalent than it was. Why do you think that is? You don't, of course, have to believe any of this. According to opinion surveys we've actually become more tolerant of the idea of migration since brexit not less as Matthew Goodwin has shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 Just now, ariotofmyown said: The only left win propaganda site I use is this one. Which sites did the guy who murdered Jo Cox use? He was even more extreme than these ones on FB. If I only occasionally use facebook why would I know about what site the murdered of Jo Cox used?? I cannot believe the ageism on the forum it's getting beyond a joke now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 35 minutes ago, cstand said: If remain had won I would have accepted the result. Fair enough - and I accept the leave result - always have. That's not made me especially popular with some of my more hardcore Remainer friends. Had quite a few arguments over the past 3 years as I refuse to specifically push to revoke A50 purely for the sake of remaining What I do say though, is that given how close the result was, our politicians have a duty to negotiate any exit in the least damaging way possible. Pushing us to the edge of a no-deal exit is a dereliction of that duty IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, Norman said: I think you will find that describes Corbyn very well too. Doesn't like the EU, promises to deliver the result of the referendum, no policy in the European elections, wants a general election, now he doesn't. They are all as bad as each other Speaking of Labour being confused on Brexit..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 8 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said: According to opinion surveys we've actually become more tolerant of the idea of migration since brexit not less as Matthew Goodwin has shown. I don't know who he is. I will look him up later. Do you have a link to the opinion surveys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 8 minutes ago, cstand said: If I only occasionally use facebook why would I know about what site the murdered of Jo Cox used?? I cannot believe the ageism on the forum it's getting beyond a joke now. Nothing ageist about pointing out older people heavily voted leave, young people heavily voted remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 1 minute ago, AndyinLiverpool said: I don't know who he is. I will look him up later. Do you have a link to the opinion surveys? Sadly I don't as I was looking at it a while ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Montgolfier said: Does anybody else struggle to make any sense whatsoever of this post? Sorry not got the time to explain further as you require back to the work is getting ever closer unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 16 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said: "the divide between rich and poor is growing faster than ever" Actually according to the ONS the wage gap between the top and bottom has actually shrank between 2010-2017 The wage gap is only part of the equation. That doesn't take into account changes in costs. For example the constant drive to remove social housing and replace it with more expensive "affordable" housing, or private rented accommodation, is more likely to affect low incomes than high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 Referendum result by social class is quite striking as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 14 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said: Speaking of Labour being confused on Brexit..... Nah you're getting confused, that's just more biased media reporting I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 27 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Fair enough - and I accept the leave result - always have. That's not made me especially popular with some of my more hardcore Remainer friends. Had quite a few arguments over the past 3 years as I refuse to specifically push to revoke A50 purely for the sake of remaining What I do say though, is that given how close the result was, our politicians have a duty to negotiate any exit in the least damaging way possible. Pushing us to the edge of a no-deal exit is a dereliction of that duty IMO Fair play to you I respect your opinion I hope a solution can be found. It would have been better if the UK and the EU could have avoided the referendum in the first place that would have been my first choice. Not on this politics forum for a while please I would ask do not put people on the ignore list as I believe in free speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 27 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said: Speaking of Labour being confused on Brexit..... Fiona Bruce …….. (sigh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 13 minutes ago, GboroRam said: The wage gap is only part of the equation. That doesn't take into account changes in costs. For example the constant drive to remove social housing and replace it with more expensive "affordable" housing, or private rented accommodation, is more likely to affect low incomes than high. It depends how you define 'divide'. I'd measure it as wages vs inflation on a day to day basis as otherwise you can get into measurements which aren't massively helpful as no government could then reduce the divide. Housing is a mess atm and in fairness it has been for the last 20 years there is nothing new about that. There's nothing necessarily wrong with focusing less on social housing stock than affordable housing but it does therefore need to be affordable. There are areas where affordable housing definitely exists and people can put deposits down but there aren't enough areas. If you couple that with high saturation points such as in London then it becomes a problem. I know a lecturer for example at my university who commutes from Derby to leeds because it's so much cheaper to buy a nice house and live in Derby than it is to live in leeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, cstand said: It would have been better if the UK and the EU could have avoided the referendum in the first place that would have been my first choice. You said it pal It's pretty heartbreaking that the country is being torn apart by such a stupid error of judgement from one guy in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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