v Millwall (A) Match Thread

[Papahet]

So many attacking options and yet we are still reluctant to change the system when thinks clearly aren’t working, never understood it. 

That’s why Mac got so many goals in the dying minutes 13/14 switching to 424.

[Waffle]

I miss Vydra

[Comrade 86]

18 minutes ago, Spanish said:

Get that.  Increasingly noticing an element that needs to blame someone else if something goes wrong whether that’s in everyday life or the rams.  In my industry not every investment goes right it is a risk which I clearly point out.  Never less I cam guarantee that apart from the odd person of principle most try to blame anything/anybody rather than accept it was their choice.  I support DCFC it is my fault nobody else and I will defend the current players and management through thick and thin.  I support a side with championship players who make mistakes.  Today wasn’t great, I am worried that FL has an enormous learning curve, I’m worried that keo has been with us a season too long, I’m worried flo jo has no end product, I’m worried that we have once again gambled heavily but blame any of these guys for my ridiculous expectations, hell no.  It is What it is being a supporter of DCFC.

Spot on. I'll never learn in any case. Every season without fail, I set myself up for a fall but that's my choice. For me it's all about the hopes and dreams. The day it's not is the day I jack it all in. One day it'll all go swimmingly right straight from the off and I'll probably keel over in amazement ?

[SSD]

Another defeat with a terrible first 20 minutes. Much better second half and Milwall were on the ropes for the last 20 miunutes of that game.

I'll get my negative out the way before I make my main point. Centre back Championship players cannot pass the ball out from the back effectively enough for my liking. Especially in the first stages of the game when players sprint to close the ball down like headless chickens. It's fine when you're winning a game and there's not long left to go. Strikers haven't got the legs to press for much longer so CB's have more time. As everyone knows, the first job of a centre back is to not take risks and defend. World class centre backs struggle to play out from the back under pressure. Ferdinand and Vidic were the best CB pairing I've seen in the Premier League. They were the best because they took no chances and did their jobs perfectly. Just played either a nice simple ball into midfield or hoofed it down the wing. They concentrated on the defending. And that's what our defence needs to start doing. I have no issues with a defender hoofing it clear if the pass isn't on. Frank will get burnt enough times to realise it's going to throw games away, fannying around with the ball at the back with no purpose. So that will need to change.

Apart from that, again like last week, I won't criticise the team and the manager to death because we're THREE games into a season. There's so much time to go. Frank wants us to play attractive football, all fans must appreciate that. If fans were annoyed because the team played dire football and we finished in a play off place last season, then that's a clear signal for changing the style of football. And Frank is trying to deliver fast flowing tactics. The manager has had 4 competitive games in charge. He's going to need a full season to feel more confident in his abilities as a boss. He's not going to get things right all the time like any other person in life. I've seen enough in pre-season to excited my inner football child, I can't remember when it last happened. These things will take time.

Supporters do need a reality check and stop the childish complaints which are infuriating. I accepted this season would mean a top ten finish would be solid enough to show progress. Rowett football was woeful. It reminded me of what this division used to be like when we were relegated at the beginning of the century. Lumping it forward in the hope of someone with pace could finish it. Crap. Frank is going about his vision the right way. Nobody wants to pay good money to watch lump it down the channels rubbish. What can the man do? Change his style in the hope something will fall into his lap. Changing philosophy shows weakness. He has to believe in his style for the players to buy into it. So for supporters to start firing shots at the manager at this stage is pathetic. Doesn't any supporter have patience anymore? Give the bloke a chance. Look at Fulham last year. Doing fairly steady in midtable and at Christmas were on fire. So there's many many games to go yet. Yes, today's first half performance was dreadful and pretty terrible. But c'mon, let's give Frank everything we have because where else do we turn to? Everything we've done since Mel Morris has bought the club has fallen on its backside. This is our direction and we must get behind it.

 

[Gritty]

In first half we were shockingly bad. I mean really awful. Probably the worst 45 mins of football I've seen Derby play since Jewel was in charge. The first goal was comically bad and the second an unlucky deflection but they could have had more. Keogh is a player I have supported for a long time but he had some comic moments: he managed to run across the box and then turn and kick the ball out for a corner.  It was just weird. He looked petrified.  This wasn't just down to players though; it was the organisation of the players and the tactics. Whenever we had a Goal kick, our fullbacks pushed up almost to the half way line and Keogh and Tomori kept splitting and going to either side of the box but only about 5 yards in from the goalline. This left a gaping hole in the middle and Carson had to try and play the ball to the midfield 2.  It was obvious this was going to happen so Millwall just overwhelmed them and basically marauded through at will. It was just shockingly bad and - I'm sorry - it was the organisation and tactics that were most at fault. 

Second half began like the first but Forsyth came on and his passing was pretty good and things started to improve. Then we put on Nugent and Bennett and the game changed completely (it wasn't lost on me we had taken off 3 FL signings and replaced with 3 players already at the club).  We were suddenly enthused with desire: Mount, Bryson, Johnson and Forsyth marauded forward. Bennett stretched, hustled and bustled, Nugent chased lost causes. We started winning the fights and Milwall were on the back foot.  Nugent's goal was fully with the run of play. And then we poured forward and were winning all the second balls and attacking properly. Mount was in and around most of our good stuff but - athough not flashy - Johnson was everywhere mopping things up and keeping things ticking. An equalizer would have been deserved.

I'm not sure what to make of it all.

• Lampard's tactics look naive. If we are going to play with wingbacks and push both forward at same time (which we seem to), we need to play with 3 at the back I think; or as least play with 2 defensive midfielders so one can drop into the back line when the wing backs roam forward. Alternatively, when one wingback surges, the other should stay back. But pushing both forward just leaves the centre halves exposed. 
• Keogh should be dropped on the first 3 games unless we are going to play 3 at the back.  I say that with great sadness. Play Wisdom or Tomori in his place when Davies is back if we are sticking with 2.
• Lawrence is playing well. Mount is playing well. Stick with them.
• Bennett has to start. He did far more than Jozefzoon (and infinitely more than Wilson has done thus far). 
• Play Nugent. Waghorn may be the better player. But Nugent's presence just energises the team.
• I'd keep Forsyth in ahead of Lowe and Malone. He looked our best leftback of the season so far in the second half
• Lampard is learning his trade and it looks like he's going to take a while. I fear this season is not going to be one we are challenging for the top 6. He'll make mistakes but he's intelligent and needs time to work it out. I think. But I thikn this year he'll be making mistakes as he goes along and we'll be midtable  
• I can't get that first 45 out of my mind. Truly unbelievably bad

 

[RoyMac5]

40 minutes ago, Gritty said:

In first half we were shockingly bad. I mean really awful. Probably the worst 45 mins of football I've seen Derby play since Jewell was in charge. 

Lol. Hyperbole.

 

40 minutes ago, Gritty said:

• Keogh should be dropped on the first 3 games unless we are going to play 3 at the back.  I say that with great sadness. Play Wisdom or Tomori in his place when Davies is back if we are sticking with 2.

What the hell did Keogh do wrong. FFS bar cover for Tomori a couple of times. 

 

40 minutes ago, Gritty said:

• Lawrence is playing well. Mount is playing well. Stick with them.

Thought JoFlo and Bogle were better than Lawrence and fb until Fozzy came on. Thought Lawrence was lucky to stay on.

[Finch]

Midfield needs sorting

[Finch]

In transition for 2019-2020

[Gritty]

16 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Lol. Hyperbole.

 

What the hell did Keogh do wrong. FFS bar cover for Tomori a couple of times. 

 

Thought JoFlo and Bogle were better than Lawrence and fb until Fozzy came on. Thought Lawrence was lucky to stay on.

All about opinions. Here's the "WhoScored view" FWIW: https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1288709/Live/England-Championship-2018-2019-Millwall-Derby

Lawrence comes out ahead of JoFlo on their view. Lawrence scores better than most too.  Keogh worse than Tomori. But they are just opinions too

 

[Anag Ram]

Mine FWIW 

Carson 6

Bogle 5

Malone 4

Tomori 4

Keogh 5

Bryson 5

Johnson 7

Mount 5

Lawrence 6

Jozefzoon 5

Waghorn 4

Subs:

Nugent 8

Forsyth 7

Bennett 7

 

 

 

[Millenniumram]

22 minutes ago, Finch said:

In transition for 2022-2023

FTFY with all our years of transition recently 

[Rev]

29 minutes ago, Finch said:

In transition for 2019-2020

I'd take that, as long as we get a few pointers along the way that the journey is worth waiting for.

[RoyMac5]

Mine FWIW 

Carson 8

Bogle 7

Malone 6

Tomori 6

Keogh 7

Bryson 6

Johnson 8

Mount 6

Lawrence 6

Jozefzoon 7

Waghorn 6

Subs:

Nugent 8

Forsyth 7

Bennett 6

[S8TY]

1 hour ago, SouthStandDan said:

Another defeat with a terrible first 20 minutes. Much better second half and Milwall were on the ropes for the last 20 miunutes of that game.

I'll get my negative out the way before I make my main point. Centre back Championship players cannot pass the ball out from the back effectively enough for my liking. Especially in the first stages of the game when players sprint to close the ball down like headless chickens. It's fine when you're winning a game and there's not long left to go. Strikers haven't got the legs to press for much longer so CB's have more time. As everyone knows, the first job of a centre back is to not take risks and defend. World class centre backs struggle to play out from the back under pressure. Ferdinand and Vidic were the best CB pairing I've seen in the Premier League. They were the best because they took no chances and did their jobs perfectly. Just played either a nice simple ball into midfield or hoofed it down the wing. They concentrated on the defending. And that's what our defence needs to start doing. I have no issues with a defender hoofing it clear if the pass isn't on. Frank will get burnt enough times to realise it's going to throw games away, fannying around with the ball at the back with no purpose. So that will need to change.

Apart from that, again like last week, I won't criticise the team and the manager to death because we're THREE games into a season. There's so much time to go. Frank wants us to play attractive football, all fans must appreciate that. If fans were annoyed because the team played dire football and we finished in a play off place last season, then that's a clear signal for changing the style of football. And Frank is trying to deliver fast flowing tactics. The manager has had 4 competitive games in charge. He's going to need a full season to feel more confident in his abilities as a boss. He's not going to get things right all the time like any other person in life. I've seen enough in pre-season to excited my inner football child, I can't remember when it last happened. These things will take time.

Supporters do need a reality check and stop the childish complaints which are infuriating. I accepted this season would mean a top ten finish would be solid enough to show progress. Rowett football was woeful. It reminded me of what this division used to be like when we were relegated at the beginning of the century. Lumping it forward in the hope of someone with pace could finish it. Crap. Frank is going about his vision the right way. Nobody wants to pay good money to watch lump it down the channels rubbish. What can the man do? Change his style in the hope something will fall into his lap. Changing philosophy shows weakness. He has to believe in his style for the players to buy into it. So for supporters to start firing shots at the manager at this stage is pathetic. Doesn't any supporter have patience anymore? Give the bloke a chance. Look at Fulham last year. Doing fairly steady in midtable and at Christmas were on fire. So there's many many games to go yet. Yes, today's first half performance was dreadful and pretty terrible. But c'mon, let's give Frank everything we have because where else do we turn to? Everything we've done since Mel Morris has bought the club has fallen on its backside. This is our direction and we must get behind it.

 

The performance today and last week against Leeds were different but ended with the same result ...defeat...if fans can look ahead to next season with a view that Frank will be wiser and better for a season in the championship getting to know players and the division it will help ...but......

what happens is and I’m guilty of it as are most fans we cannot see beyond what’s actually happening right now and at this moment in time we are making errors with new players and a management team cutting there teeth in an unrelenting division where everyone can see the promised land of the premiership and the so called glories it can bring....

Im the same I want it now I’ve beem to nearly every game and travelled the country but I want it now but reality is we have got to be both realistic and patient ....Frank may not be right for us he may be perfect who knows but what is clear is we will not know the answer to that now or in the next few weeks ....if we can be positive and look to next season without writing of this season ( or what’s the point in going I hear fans saying ) we will progress 

why??? Because FL is intelligent and will learn but also he’s a winner and it’s a journey 

get behind Frank through thick and thin and let’s see where it takes us ....but criticising after 3 games as a rookie manager is not supporting the long term project ....Just give it time ...Frank will make mistakes ...but he is a winner and a hard worker and you could see what it means to Jon after the reading winner ....keep the faith with Frank ??

[Inglorius]

3 minutes ago, Saity said:

 why??? Because FL is intelligent and will learn but also he’s a winner and it’s a journey 

His learning curve of coaching his defenders to play out from the back has been an unnecessarily extended one.

[Roboram]

59 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

 

What the hell did Keogh do wrong. FFS bar cover for Tomori a couple of times. 

He’s a joke, when he managed to somehow tackle himself & put the ball out for a corner right in front of us was comedy genius ?

 

[Bris Vegas]

I laughed at Keogh putting the ball out for a corner. But generally he was good and he made some excellent passes into the striker’s feet - a pass BJ finds physically impossible.

Lawrence offered nothing again. Jozefzoon not much better. 

Our best two starters were Keogh and Bogle. Then Fozzy, Nuge and Bennett did more in 20 mins than Malone, Waghorn and Lawrence before them.

I also thought Bryson looked better today, but I still don’t like him picking the ball up from the two CB’s before making a simple pass Keogh could do.

 

[CWC1983]

Just back in the house after a good day out. 

Ill give a bit of a more considered assessment later, but it was exactly like Sheff Utd away last season. 

It was all a bit 'timid' and were beaten after the 1st joke of a goal. 

 

 

 

[CWC1983]

16 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

I laughed at Keogh putting the ball out for a corner. But generally he was good and he made some excellent passes into the striker’s feet - a pass BJ finds physically impossible.

Lawrence offered nothing again. Jozefzoon not much better. 

Our best two starters were Keogh and Bogle. Then Fozzy, Nuge and Bennett did more in 20 mins than Malone, Waghorn and Lawrence before them.

I also thought Bryson looked better today, but I still don’t like him picking the ball up from the two CB’s before making a simple pass Keogh could do.

 

Bang on assessment bar the Bogle comment. ?

[Inverurie Ram]

5 hours ago, 86 points said:

Maybe you're right but the happyclapper in me wants to believe that slowly but surely, the team is coming to grips with what's expected of them. I think we need to be braver earlydoors and believe we can pass around the press. We've looked really nervy early on in all three games.

early doors.........get em in!......."to the regiment!....I wish I was there"........FL Charming Man.....