BondJovi

1 hour ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

100% as a player. 

As a manager he doesn't have to run around for a living. Although it's probably slightly more embarrassing when he's caught out doing what he looked like he was on the verge of doing.

Personally I think it is worse as a manager. Being a manager comes with far greater responsibility, he sets the standard through the club. Have our expectations dropped so much that we are ok with our manager getting pissed in a nightclub and allowing himself to be in this situation? Especially given our current situation. We need leadership and responsibility. When you step up to the big role you have to act the part. This isn't that.

What did you expect really with Rooney as manager. He sells stories, makes headlines. With the club in the garbage place it is, this is not a situation he should have allowed himself to be in.

This stupid lust for celebrity is poison to the club.

24 minutes ago, nottingram said:

But you would be hugely limited on who you can replace him with. Neil Taylor I have seen mentioned - is he accepting a contract worth less than £11.5k p/w? 

You might argue that the fee for Buchanan could go towards paying the bills to get us out of embargo, but that depends how much the bill is. If we’re scratching around for a million here and there to pay it, it’s hard to see that we’ll be paying transfer fees once we’re out of it. Loans would be a different story of course.

Not just that, but only a year deal. Players might want a bit more security than that. That player could then leave for nothing.

I fail to see the point of even considering it, unless the money takes us out any restrictions, but that seems impossible.

1 minute ago, G-Ram said:

Think he's been our best youngster out of the bunch to come through. It shows how far we have fallen having to sell our best talent to forest. I wont be happy seeing him go there but its needs must. If it allows us to bring in players and build a team that can stay up then we have to look at the bigger picture  

Would allow a direct replacement currently, who would have to be free and only a year deal. Can't see us doing it. I don't think there is a bigger picture, unless that sale alone solves all our problems...which it can't.

It is a mess. This is the third season running where our preparations have been completely disrupted by aspects outside of the managers control.If nothing else, that is more than enough punishment from the EFL. 

I think we did well the previous season, but last season, everyone underperformed, from top to bottom. To make matters worse, the job done from external sources (the EFL) has also been rubbish.

This all leaves Rooney in the middle of potential disaster. What can he do? He was very lucky to get the job in the first place, he was lucky to keep his job (better performing managers have gone for far less). He is probably the manager most in need of support but he is getting none.These are not conditions to help a manager blossom. He doesn't have any previous performances to give him leverage. The only thing he has right now is that the club cannot afford to sack him. I am certain he believes he can be a success, yet I think he had an arrogance last season that let him down. I think Rooney knows his managerial career will not be tarnished with what happens here, I think it still remains a win win for him. If he makes something of this season he will deserve all the credit going.

We have to support him, we have to back him. I didn't want him, I thought he should have gone at the end of the season and I have minimal enthusiasm for this season. But right now, based on pure blind faith, I hope he aces it. Until any kind of takeover happens, this is what we have. Though I fear things could get nasty if we don't make a good start.

11 hours ago, Rample said:

Interesting Radio Derby interview.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09p7ggs

Cocu said something to the extent of Rooney has to play and Bird needs to be developed, so it doesn't matter how you play or train you won't get in.

Sounds like directions from above?!

I am surprised this isn't getting more interest. I think it shines a very worrying light on interference from above. Should Cocu have done what he wanted? Yes. Could he? We may never know. Huddlestone was a Cocu favourite early on.

As for Huddlestone. He would definitely have been a useful player to have last season. But I wouldn't want him now.

Delete this one!

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Are we really though? So far, we look to have improved on 4 of the 5 January loanees, with Baldock being on par with Gregory.  There's still 3 more weeks to strengthen further.

Clarke
Edmundson vs Jagielka
Mengi vs Stearman
Baningime vs Morrison
Roberts vs Aluko
Gregory vs Baldock
Waghorn

Rather take my chances with Mengi than Stearman. Rather Roberts any day than Aluko. Agree on Gregory and Baldock. My bigger concern is how many games can Jagielka actually play.

As for Morrison. We took a gamble with Ibe and it failed. This isn't the same sort of gamble, but it remains a risk.

I would say at best we have got bodies in for bodies sake(if we sign them). It might be the best we can do but it doesn't suggest anything other than a long hard season of scrapping.

24 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

It would be touch and go I think. Defensively, I don't really love that team at centre back. Clarke was a very good player at this level and replacing him will not be easy. I don't know just how important he was or how many goals he stopped by being there though but with Bielik we've seen the potential influence of one very good player. 

Mengi would likely have to step up in that role and be the consistent player on the team sheet rotating the others but davies and jagielka can't have many games left in the tank (maybe good for 10 a piece this year and that could be considered optimistic) and stearman was a centre back for a team that conceded the most goals in the entire division last season. My gut is that it would need to be a wisdom- mengi partnership for the majority which doesn't really fill me with a ton of confidence. 

going forward adding Baldock and Aluko might give us something a bit more so that might be positive but we likely will need to score at least 10 goals more than last season to pick up around 50 points so with those who have gone that probably means we need to pick up around 20 goals off the top of my head with new signings etc. I'm not sure Baldock and Aluko will get us there on their own, maybe the others will chip in a bit more though. 

Well, Aluko has scored 6 league goals in his last 4 seasons. Baldock, 10 in the last 3. Going to take some career turn around to even get us close. Even Marriott out scored Baldock last season!

I have no issue with the plan as such. I don't really enjoy much of football currently, so the idea that we would have a set of young players to support and watch grow was great.

But you can't suddenly decide to take this path then scrap the man trusted to do it after a season and a bit. Based on what these players have shown (under Cocu) I would have no issue with our team starting with Buchanan, Knight, Bird and Sibley. They aren't the problem, that belongs to the under performing senior players. 

I don't believe the senior players were fully on board with Cocu, but due to our own ineptitude off the pitch he could do little about it. I think they gave more for Rooney but the younger players suffered.

It is a shame that at the point we decide to fully use the academy and youngsters, we have the worst set of senior players for at least 8 seasons.

Our best asset is the academy, we had the ideal manager for that. We panicked when it got rough, we put a manager in place to sell the club. And now we are in a situation where we will have to rely on the young players even more with a manager who has shown little understanding of getting the best from them.

There was no clear vision on how to use the academy, just a faint dream. We stumbled on a plan but did our best to give it no chance of success.

Sadly I don't believe we will even get the money we should when we inevitably sell one of them.

1 hour ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said:

Look. No one (virtuallly) wanted Cocu to carry on.

Most people were happy with Rooney when form picked up (before injurys bit).

Rooney is going to be the manager at start of next season. I for one am going to look forward to get back in the f.ing ground and will back the ugly sh-one-t for now.

Bitching time is done for me....

I did! And I believe we would have still been safe. 

However, it is done. Gone. Rooney will start the season and we have to hope he shows something magical, because we are going to need it.

23 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Well if the youngsters are currently as good as some think then we may not have them around next season anyway, we need money!

I believe the youngsters are the only real thing going for the club currently. When the season started Sibley, Bird, Knight all could have attracted a high price, Whittaker and Buchanan potential. By 15 games or so you could say Buchanan was worth his most.

Now? We flogged Whittaker for a pitiful 700k. And all those players stock will have dropped. Sibley in particular.

Letting the value of our assets drop at a time when we are financially screwed could be seen as a failure of management. 

Let's be brutally honest. Rooney was signed for business reasons first, playing reasons second. His name has failed to attract the big bucks Mel wanted. His playing after initial promise sank. We then gambled that him as manager would make us an attractive prospect. It hasn't. 

We have zero signs that he can improve next season. All we have is hope and blind faith. And that is before you even consider our financial position or even points position.

57 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but the only free agent we signed in the previous 12 months was Ibe whom has played how many minutes for the club? Think MTW was also a free signing, both have turned out to be unmitigated disasters - at least MTW actually played a few games compared with Ibe.

As I said something radically different has to change in out recruitment.

MTW was clearly Cocu's man. I don't really think he was given a fair chance. Binned out by Rooney. Just like Shinnie was nearly canned under Cocu. The others? I suspect Bielik was already in place, as was Rooney. 

Recruitment would be easier if we had a set style to go for, but when managers change every season and they each want a different style, it is a lottery. 

I actually think our recruitment has been better since the Lampard splurge. Paid money for Bielik and Jozwiak, young players with potential, riskier signings on free and cheap fees for reliable champ players. We just majorly cocked up by not signing the striker Cocu wanted/needed and getting Rooney in on a sponsored deal was not the right direction.

That has been our major problem. We start doing something right and then go and screw it all over and start a whole new plan. As if we constantly have a loaded gun pointed at our feet and an itchy trigger finger.

1 hour ago, Curtains said:

We’ll probably yes .

I argued we should have kept Cocu party because of the cost of sacking him and it appears it was 8 Million !

This sack sack sack of managers has not helped us. 
 

I thought it was reported at the time he accepted a 60% reduced pay off? Even so, never thought he should have gone in the first place. The fact we allowed a group to make a managerial decision, who at that point had put no money in and now have nothing to do with us, is a farce. I don't believe we would have got relegated, we would then have hit the end of Rooney's contract as well. Now, just a mess.

55 minutes ago, Srg said:

This is 100% right. We shouldn’t be giving him more time just because he’s already here and he’s had a bit of a crap hand dealt. 

Countless managers move to worse situations and do better than he has done. Just look at the likes of Lee Bowyer... Birmingham were hopeless and certainly heading down until he turned up with not that many games to go. That’s just one example.

Rooney knew the players before taking over full time. There is zero excuse, despite what he says, for not imparting a style of play. He changes formation, tactical advice and personnel every single game and expects continuity some how. His subs are terrible and he doesn’t seem to motivate, let alone harness anything other than mental fragility. 

It’s not hyperbole when I say I think he’s the worst manager I’ve seen here in my 25 years supporting this club. 

One win in 15. I don't see how that can be defended. 

14 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Last we heard he was brought to the club on a sponsorship deal funded by 32Red. It may have changed, but I've heard nothing that says it has. I would not be surprised if Rooney got the gig because he was a cheap option, as we're not paying his wages. Genius if it works. 

My theory is they paid if he played, we pay if he didn't, or at least a percentage. Wouldn't surprise me if at least a large portion of his wages were still being covered. Our sponsored manager.

1 minute ago, Curtains said:

Well you make good points but can you remember the end of last season. 
 

Didn’t we capitulate from a position of fighting for top 6 to hardly winning.

Already been pointed out, we dropped to midtable form. Hardly a collapse but we did well to even be in with a chance of top 6. And we did our best run without Bielik...

9 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Well to begin with he's a marmite personality. Then there's the 32Red Cocu conspiracy. But mostly it's not being able to turn this small, average, inconsistent, injury riddled, young squad into world beaters.

Waghorn, Lawrence, Knight and Sibley. 34? goals last season between them. 10? So far.

Maybe you excuse Lawrence due to injury, but the rest have been available for Rooney for most of his games. Who should take responsibility for that? In a team that desperately needs goals...

We are as injury riddled now as we started the season. Maybe more fitness wise at the start. 

Rooney himself said this team should be nowhere near the bottom 3. He has played with them, trained with them. He knew what he was signing up for!

11 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

The really sad thing is that Mel seemingly did have a vision for the club at that time with the whole a “Derby way” thing, but then (for whatever reason) did everything he could to make sure it never ever happened.

Hiring Cocu, then signing Rooney being the best example. One to do the plan, one to shaft it.

13 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

But the likes of Luton and Coventry have got the players...

I would like to know who isn't good enough in our team to play at the level of those sides at least. Who are all these boys we supposedly have. Last time I looked we had Scotland's number one. A Polish international winger,  a regular for Wales and one of the best defenders in the league in Clarke. Rooney said Shinnie should be in the Scotland squad... Buchanan a future England player. Sibley a future star only a year ago. 

Are they playing to the best of their abilities? No. Why?

6 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Buchanan played well at the start of the season but has faded....

Buchanan and Knight were the stand out performers early on.  Both have faded as the season has gone on. I suspect in Knight's case he was just overplayed.

1 hour ago, mwram1973 said:

I don't think for one minute he's rode in and rescued us as he hasn't yet and there's still a chance we could go down. Saying he wasn't interested goes against everything, every player and coach says about him throughout his career, so forgive me if i take what a few disgruntled fans who probably doesn't like him anyway, no matter what he does with a pinch of salt.

He'll feel responsible if we do go down and I'm sure he'll say this, but you can't blame him for taking us down and then not congratulate him if he keeps us up.

EVERYONE has to take responsibility, that, I 100% agree with but it's the players/squad that inevitably have to take the lions share as they are the ones that put all the training and tactics into play on matchday.

I'm not a fanboy ?, I just think he deserves a fair crack of the whip. We have one or 2 good players and thats it.

imo ?

I have always been a fan of Rooney as a player. You are right, those are all qualities no one could ever dispute, however, what we got since lockdown was severely lacking in those qualities. I was disappointed.

8 minutes ago, mwram1973 said:

Imo, as I said AT BEST we are bang average so a mid to lower part of the league is where we should be and we do find ourselves in that position. 

I think Rooney & his staff are doing all they can do with this squad, Cocu took us to the bottom of the league so he started with basically a points deduction. If we survive I think he'll have done a great job with what he had to work with.

Look down the road, Hughton, who I think is a good manager and started pretty much the same time as Rooney, is only 6 points better off with a better squad and he joined them clear of the relegation places.

I really believe, given the backing promised, Rooney has the pull to get quality players in and will get us going in the right direction.

It reads like Rooney swept in on a white stallion and has rescued us. Completely ignoring that he and his coaching staff were all part of a team being bottom! Rooney was supposedly our star, but he was overweight, out of shape and barely interested in fighting at the start of this season. He has to take some responsibility for our league position that he inherited. This mess is on the players too and Rooney was part of that. If anything he helped make his own job harder.

32 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

We had a couple of those last season. Knight scored 6 in 31 and Sibley scored 5 in 11.

We did, the more the merrier!

7 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

Always said he could be our Matt Le Tissier. Timi could score from near the halfway line practically every game. Huge talent. Lived in Derby for quite a while after he was released. I tried to encourage him (just on social media) to ask to train at the club "to build his fitness" so he could put himself back in the frame and maybe get a new deal. 

He's been captain of the Slovenian U21 team, but that's come to an end as they're out of the Euros and he's 23 later this month. I'm surprised no one else has come in for him, or maybe they have and after all these years away he wanted to spend time at home.

If he had come through a couple of years later he could well be a hero. A goalscoring midfielder...would love one of those.