LeedsCityRam

Derby 1 Latics 0, FRGS Hourihane

35 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Great overall post, which I nearly missed as you didn’t tag @i-Ram on it. I agree that I would undoubtedly be brilliant as an elected member, and have today bought 2 new 3-seater sofas so the rest of the board can sit comfortably next to me.

Recliners built in? We'll have a flood of applicants. Whilst I obviously agree with your candidature, I didnt want to embarrass anyone by tagging them..I know you're a humble sort by nature 😉

What a difference a year makes eh? Up until the end of June, we were not only faced with the potential collapse of Derby County but worse still, there was nothing that we as fans could do about it. We were totally dependant on a benevolent millionaire deciding to overpay for us & miraculously after months of desperation & with time running out, we found one - sat in our very own North Stand.

I think its fair to say we could never hope to be that lucky again & David Clowes is quite right when he says measures have to put in place to stop Derby going to the wire like that again. Today was a massive step in that direction & it again shows the calibre of the man that he is putting the long-term future of the club before any personal self-interest.

Obviously there is a fair amount of detail in the proposals & the structure may raise eyebrows but the main headlines really are a) a fan veto over the sale of Pride Park & b) access to regular financial information. Those two elements alone would have stopped the previous regime going as far down the road as they did & allied with the imminent introduction of an independent regulator, gives this Shadow Board real teeth in the future. Remember, this isn't about holding David Clowes to account - its about his successors as club owners, the future Mel Morris & the future three Amigos. We never know how owners can turn out - safe to say no-one in 2015 would have predicted 2021/22.

I totally echo @angieram comments - there are a number of posters on here who would be brilliant as elected members to the Shadow Board. Leave aside any personal distaste for other groups on the Shadow Board, this is your opportunity to help with the future stewardship of this great football club - something that would have been unthinkable 15 months ago.

I urge anyone remoted interested in the future strategic direction of the club to send constructive feedback to DCFC before the deadline 👍🐏

The bar isnt set very high for me. Started following Derby summer of 1987 upon our return to the top flight & that 36 year investment has seen the grand total of no trophies or major finals, 11 top flight seasons, 4 relegations, 2 financial implosions & 2 promotions, one leading to the worst ever season in top flight history.

Yes, the top flight days under Cox & Smith were great but all too brief.  We had one stellar season under Cox in 88-89 (great for playground rep in a Northern school but without a UEFA Cup place to show for it)  but our 4 year Division One stay was mostly spent at the wrong end of the table. Smith's side played some great football but never got the European place they deserved, dropping out of top 5 around April time in both 97/98 & 98/99.

Whilst it seems silly to talk about European football from where we sit today, there's no reason why it couldn't happen at some point in the next 10 years if we remain stable & well-run. Football can change very quickly...just ask Brighton, Luton or Coventry fans. Since I supported Derby, the following 'giants' of English football have won a major trophy; Sheff Weds, Leicester, Wigan, Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Blackburn, Swansea, Portsmouth, Wimbledon, Notts Forest. We're well overdue some silverware too.

Derby to win the Europa League one day? You can never take the hope away.

1 hour ago, simmoram1995 said:

For context before Mcgolderick’s 22 last season , he only had 5 seasons of double figures out of about 15-16 seasons 134 goals .

Washington has 161 goals in less seasons. I fully expect him to outweigh his expectations.

Of those 161 goals, 74 were for St Ives Town - his professional record is 87 goals in 391 games. You are of course correct about McGoldrick's modest goal tally before last season.

I believe Washington's value will be in the hard work he does to win the ball back, holding the ball up in the final 3rd & stretching the play with his pace. Suspect his arrival will get the best out of Collins, who was isolated at times last season & will also present opportunities for Mendez-Laing & Barkhuizen to feed off. Blend in a team is more important than the relative ability of individual players & I believe like one or two other maligned past players, he will prove a fair few wrong with his overall impact.

2 hours ago, jimtastic56 said:

Would free agent Lyle Taylor be too much of a personality for Warne ?

I suspect most managers would be wary given his behaviour towards the back end of his time with Charlton.

It is a shame as I do rate him as a mobile CF & his nasty streak marks him out as a player you'd want during a tough away game/clash against a top 6 opponent.

8 hours ago, TomTom92 said:

Swansea sniffing around Duff, if he goes then the stars have definitely aligned for us this season.

Yes, helpful from a Derby POV. Really rate him as a manager & will undoubtedly disrupt their summer.

Barnsley a real threat for one of the top 2 spots if they were able to replicate their form from February onwards. Interesting to see who they replace him with & how quickly.

8 hours ago, caymanram said:

Well..except that this ‘logic’ ignores the three teams coming down from the Champ 😎

Suspect that was entirely deliberate given Wigan have been deducted points & Reading are set to suffer the same fate. Only Blackpool of the relegated clubs are stable & given they are a well run, sustainable club, will likely aim for a gradual rebuild following relegation rather than throwing money at an immediate return. Therefore I would agree with Warne that Derby, Barnsley, Bolton & Peterborough would be the main contenders with a couple from Charlton, Portsmouth, Wycombe & Blackpool challenging also.  Get our recruitment right & we should be expecting a top 2 push.

To the topic of the thread - watched the interview which I think was well timed given there may have been some apprehension with McGoldrick leaving, Roberts signing elsewhere & no new signings announced as yet. Warne looked relaxed & I don't see why not - still extremely early in the summer and as others have mentioned, we'll probably be announcing signings when players return from holidays or their contracts expire 30th June. He's got a lot of support with a well-regarded Head of Recruitment in post, a supportive owner & likely a decent budget for this level - probably the best situation for a Derby manager since Lampard in June 2018.

Have no problem with his stated size of squad either - around 22 sounds fine assuming the quality of a second XI is comparable with first XI but we will need some signings into the Academy (likely Prem academy departures) to bolster those numbers if unlike last season, we suffer significant injuries or suspensions. Particularly important in attacking areas & given those players won't be known to opposition scouts, no reason why another Ebiowei or Plange couldn't emerge & chip with important goal/assists.

1 hour ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Italian football must be a dismal experience

Its actually far more expansive than the days of catenaccio & well drilled early 90s Milan teams. New champions Napoli play some wonderful stuff, as do Maurizio Sarri's Lazio & Milan (sporting Fikayo Tomori at CB).

Inter were faced with a formidable opponent tonight & did exactly what they should have done - didn't over-commit, aggressive intensity throughout & tried to make the game as niggly as possible. Only poor finishing denied them a 4th European crown, which surely confirms how sensible their gameplan was.

23 hours ago, Warren Blufitt said:

I’m not sure why you’re even having this conversation, of course Derby are a big club and even massive at this level. As has been said, there are lots of reasons players sign for certain clubs but I’d say ambition is one of them and playing at the highest level possible is too. Players can achieve both with Derby but if players are short sighted enough to only consider money the main criteria, unless it’s so much it would be crazy to turn down, you’d join a Derby before you’d join anyone else in this league and half the one above and that’s from a Bolton fan!! 😉

As the other stand out big club at this level, what's the mood amongst Bolton fans at present? I'm guessing like ourselves you'll be aiming for a top 2 push...do you believe your squad needs a lot of new recruits or just tweaking in a couple of key areas?

Also, am I right in thinking there's been no confirmed signings at the Unibol yet?

2 hours ago, tomsdubs said:

Looks like all our supposed targets gone elsewhere, lets hope all the rumours are wrong cause it looks pretty bleak so far. Early days though.

You won't be alone in wanting signings in asap - we all do but it is very early in the window (as you do say in fairness) & hence is too early to make an assessment on whether the situation is bleak or not. About a month early I reckon.

Had to check dates but roughly this time last year we were chasing Chris Kirchner around a golf course (see below tweet) & yet by July 2nd, we had an impressive batch of names announced to play for us. 

In contrast to last year's chaos, we now have stable ownership, a Head of Recruitment, the EFL restrictions have loosened & a fairly compelling project to sell to new players - a probable tilt at automatic promotion from League One. Keep the faith ✊

22 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

Had a think about this question over a few days and I think I’ve come to the conclusion that while I expect us to be challenging near the top, I’m not too bothered about promotion. I mean if it happens then great, I’d be ecstatic but a few things bother me.

1) I want us to be a sustainable club, I don’t want us to have a chairman who’s having to throw thousands, if not millions, into the club just to keep us afloat or chasing a near impossible dream. We are a community club and I don’t want us to have an idea that the finances of the club are an ownership problem rather than an overall problem we need to keep an eye on.

2) I want us to have an achievable plan in place to build something. We might have this already in place internally but I want us to have a plan to build something over x amount of seasons rather than just getting to the championship and then going from there. 

3) I have great concerns for the football pyramid as a whole, I can’t see the point in being a championship team with more overheads, trying to get to the prem where the gap between the have and have nots gets ever bigger.

Yes I’d love promotions and getting back to being a big club again, but I also like local ownership and I want us to be steady and stable. We need to be careful what we wish for and think about what’s next and how it’s going to be achieved as much as just having expectations.

 

I share your wish for the club to be sustainable but don't believe that is inconsistent with expecting success or wanting to leave this division asap.

The revenue generated by this club would put us top 10 of the Championship with only the clubs with parachute payments & Sunderland (with their crowd numbers) significantly ahead of us. Obviously there will be a small handful of clubs spending well beyond their means (Bristol, Stoke. Parmo Parasites) but I think it should be perfectly achievable for Derbý to be both a sustainable & relatively successful club in the division above. The examples of Luton & Coventry further illustrate that approach is possible on much smaller revenue.

Not relying on spending means thinking shrewdly about recruitment & planning. I suspect in time Clowes' careful stewardship will get us a lot closer to the top division than Mel Morris ever managed.

6 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Depressing and for my money, the worst call of Mad Mel's tenure, though I concede that I was pretty excited when we signed him as pre-injury, the lad looked an absolute beast. When we signed Bradders and that midfielder who was so f****** bland that I've forgotten his name for around £11 million combined, I thought we'd taken leave of our senses, but £8M plus add-ons (none of which will be paid, thankfully) for Bielik trumps it by some way.

By my count, Bielik has played @48 league games for Derby. He's only 13 games short of that figure for Birmingham. Grim AF and my guess is that his likely fee should he stay at Brum would be little more than a miserly £1 million, leaving the club with somewhere between £1M and £3M still to pay, with the latter figure most likely IMO.

Had he honoured his contract, there's little doubt in my mind we'd already be back in the Championship, but I'm heartened by the fact that he got to fulfil his ambition to play in a World Cup, because that's what really matters 🤐

And to add insult to injury, Bielik was bought after Morris decided to put the club up for sale. A club record spend on a player he knew someone else would be likely to pay.

I'm not actually that annoyed at Bielik, he's a young lad with clear ability to play higher & his injuries will have probably accelerated his desire to grab as much as he can whilst his body can stand it i.e. play at a World Cup & as high a level as possible. I can tolerate that whilst we're not paying his wages & I've a feeling he won't be playing for many more years given his injury record.  Obviously there's the contractual obligation & we as fans will demand loyalty but that should work both ways; some fans are very quick to want rid of a player on a contract if they don't perceive their value to the club.

I'm not convinced he'd have been an asset last season because of his stated lack of motivation to play in League One & we'd have been saddled with his wages, which will have impacted our ability under the business plan to bring in the quality we did recruit (McGoldrick, Hourihane et al). We just need a club to take him off our hands pronto & depressingly, the 1m you suggest is probably the ceiling we can expect.

11 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Except he is nowhere close to the level of Hughes. Even Hughes his first full season of breaking into the team was better than Bird, and I don't dislike Bird but it's not a great comparison. Hughes in his first season was better than Bird at everything he does a couple of years into his Derby career. 

Where did I say Bird was at the level of Hughes? I don't think anyone could credibly argue that. I was clearly comparing the type of player, that was the point being made.

11 hours ago, jimtastic56 said:

The only way you can compare Bird to Hughes is in the lack of goals. Other than that Hughes could run a game from start to finish in a top 3 Championship team. Hughes could play killer balls in the box and get a team up the field. Bird has just had a poor season in Tier 3. I think his days are numbered with Warne .

You do realise Will Hughes also had relatively few assists whilst playing for Derby? The killer balls you refer to were less of a feature of his game than the way he threaded play together.

I also can not agree Bird has had a poor season. The team struggled as soon as he got injured in Jan, which should speak volumes for his contribution. 

Bit saddened by the dismissal of Bird's impact on here...its clear some folk just don't realise what a good player he is. Like Will Hughes, he's a tempo player & controls the pace of the game but his defensive nous is also very good & clearly under-rated. No, he isn't particularly strong in the tackle but its 2023, not 1985...players are not rewarded for smashing into opponents these days but are rewarded for staying on their feet, tracking oppo midfield runs & intercepting dangerous passes/counter attacks. Max does all these very well & to the OP question, is the one player I absolutely would not want to leave.

As a contrasting midfielder, I could live with Jason Knight going especially as he's coming up to end of his contract & has international ambitions to protect. To be blunt, I haven't been impressed with his output in midfield this year & don't believe he has the quality to play centrall midfield long term. I do think he would make a good right wing-back (his best football this year was right side) & suspect that's where he will be played by whoever buys him. An offer of 2m plus would be a must sell.

Bielik is unlikely to return also given his international ambitions & at a reputed 20k a week (1m plus a year), just needs a quick move away. 

Sibley is a difficult one. Like Knight, I wasnt that impressed with his output this season but feel there is a player in there given time. With a more incisive front line in 23/24, he could make hay playing off the main striker(s). Hence I would only sell for silly money.

Surprised not to see Martyn Waghorn v Sheffield Wednesday (May 2021) mentioned so far. Scored twice & hit the pass to Roberts for the other goal in the 3-3 draw that kept us up. He ran around like a man possessed all game & when subbed at the point of exhaustion, was still vocally encouraging the lads from the sidelines in the empty stadium.

Had we lost that match (and we were behind twice), we'd have been hit with the 21 point deduction in League One the following year & been struggling to keep out of League Two. His contribution that day was the best individual performance I can recall watching.

On 07/03/2023 at 19:03, Eatonram said:

I seem to remember the return leg was televised, I think by ITV but have never been able to track it down.

Footage from the two goals have been posted on Youtube in the past few days, with a jaunty French backing track. Enjoy 👍

Definitely renewing. Covid & last year's trauma taught me never to take watching the club for granted

4 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Do you really take any notice of what the manager and the players say in the media? Why do they have media training? They can’t say what they truly think and their answers are carefully manicured like Beyoncé’s nails.

If Warne genuinely thought this season was a failure, he would be honorable and resign. He is saying it is a failure because he thinks that kind of accountability is what fans of a big club like ours, the big fish in a small pond, want to hear.

I prefer to make up my own mind and from my perspective, it’s not a failure nor a success, but a learning curve. 

Have we at any point this season looked like one of the top three teams in this division? If not, how have we failed?

Also, this idea that we are poor v top sides seems misguided to me. How many top sides have played us off the park and left us well beaten? Arguably two - Ipswich at PP and Barnsley at Oakwell, and even the outcome of those could be debated.

Pretty much all other games have been tight, back and forth, well-contested and decided by fine margins. The only noticeable patterns I have observed is poor refereeing, missed chances at key times, and costly defensive mistakes going against us.

We can only control two of those and I am sure Warne will be looking to add more goalscorers to the team and to tighten up the defence.

We all want to improve, we all want to see better times and progression, but I stand by what I said. You are usually very fair and even handed. There has been little evidence of that lately.

No offence Jourdan but that is a weak defence. You are in essence saying Warne & the players are fibbing on camera to keep the fans happy because their obvious disappointment at missing out contradicts your opinion. And the notion that an honourable resignation is the only true confirmation of failure is very far-fetched.

The players will have expected to finish top 6 after returning there after the Burton win (and having been there most of the past 4 months) & had two bites of the cherry last week and this to secure our spot. Of course they will see it as failure - I'd question their professional ambition if they didn't. I don't disagree that we have never looked like one of the top 3 teams but I'm struggling to think of anyone who legitimately thought top 2/3 was achievable - I certainly didn't. 6th on the other hand very much was in our grasp & we haven't done it.

And like I said earlier, disagreeing with you doesn't imply bias. You've cleared stated your position from the start with Warne & are relentless in sticking to that, which is fine but means you're not really best placed to comment on a lack of balance from others.

44 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I feel like you have let yourself down here. We’ve missed out on the play-offs by a point, not ten. Calling it a failure is sensationalism.

You’ve long been considered one of the most respected and most measured posters on the forum, but in recent months it seems you have abandoned that sense of balance and perspective previously held.

You’ve been on a singular mission to discredit the manager, diminish any good he has done and superimpose the bad, and to what end?

Warne will be back next season and as a club hopefully we’ll have learnt lessons and be wiser and stronger after this experience. The time to be heavy handed is this time next year if Warne hasn’t moved us forward. 

Top two should be the aim.

Hang on a sec, Warne has called it a failure, the players have called it a failure (Hourihane anyway in his interview) & I happen to agree with them. So lets not pretend its an outlier opinion or sensationalist.

The attempt to tarnish contrary opinions to yours as lacking balance is pretty shameless but I would point you in the direction of my post following the win at Exeter where I was complimentary of the performance, result & specifically praised Warne. So your accusation of constant denigration of Warne is totally unfounded. I will post as I see the current situation & if Warne goes on to be successful (which I hope he does) then I will praise him accordingly - I'm not interested in this polarisation of posters into pro-Warne or anti-Warne 'camps'.

I fully recognise Warne will be back next year - the heavy handed approach would be to demand his removal which I haven't said at any stage this season nor would I do now. I just want him to be better. Glad you've mentioned top two as the aim for next season - I would agree there.

My specific point in my reply to you was in relation to the season as a whole not about today - a one-off like today can be considered unfortunate (and I'm not calling Warne out for today's result in singularity) but this result feeds into a noticeable pattern based on a siezable sample. I don't want to finish 7th again next year & hence this needs to improve.

Just now, Tyler Durden said:

This all stems back to you getting all bent out of shape as I had the temerity to call you out on a post you made a few weeks ago.

Get over it. 

Good grief, you're really not taking today well are you? 

I can see you're desperately trying to turn this personal & away from the discussion at hand; Warne's performance. Always happy to discuss the football, not interested in the childish petulance. To return the advice, get over it 👍

5 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Reciprocally you've cheered my evening up with your tedious, predictable claptrap.

You do have some uses after all 🤣

Ah, good old ad-hominem in the absence of argument 👍

You're having a mare today 😆

5 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Yer tell @LeedsCityRam that as he found what you said amusing.

Obviously needs to generate some more pivot charts to keep his brain occupied.

Your petulant outbursts since full-time have brightened my day a little. Keep it up 😆

54 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Some might deem this season a failure and the anti-Warne sentiment will no doubt be in overdrive over the coming days and weeks, but it’s needless.

There's no 'might' about it - it is a failure. Warne quite rightly admits as much in his post-match interview (link below - about 4 mins in & end of interview also) & had been making similar comments in the past few weeks.

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2023/05/sheffield-wednesday-a-reaction-paul-warne

Rosenior's last game in charge left us in 7th place, outside the playoffs on goal difference. When Warne was appointed to much fanfare from the club referencing his promotion record, no-one would have regarded finishing in the same position as success.

Your point about fine margins appears to absolve Warne of any responsibility for this late season collapse. His job is to get results, he has not done so & the timing very much correlates with playing better teams. We haven't been good enough over his stint in charge & he in particular has not been good enough. This season has been a missed opportunity.

3 hours ago, VulcanRam said:

Sorry, but I have to call this out. As a referee and someone who knows how observers work, nothing could be further from the truth. They are judged on getting the decisions right, nothing more. The size of crowd, hostility etc has nothing whatsoever to do with it. Give an incorrect penalty "against Derby in front of 30k at Pride Park or sending a Wednesday player off in front of 20k at Hillsborough" and you'll be marked down, simple as that. 

There's only one way to show how adept they at "dealing with hostile crowds/situations & deserving of higher profile fixtures", and that's managing the players, managing the game and getting the decisions correct. Nothing more. I know your opinion feeds into the ridiculous conspiracy that someone everyone is against us, but I'm afraid it's just incorrect. 

No need to apologise - its a forum so I'd expect opinions to be challenged, particularly by someone who clearly knows the system better than I do!

Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting referees were giving clearly incorrect decisions to impress observers but there is an element of subjectivity with some decisions that don't necessarily fall into correct/incorrect - penalty calls being the most obvious. It clearly takes courage to award decisions against a hostile large home crowd, courage is a key trait for a successful refereeing career & that may be a factor with those marginal calls.

As I said in my previous post, I don't believe it is a conspiracy against Derby specifically but there is a lot of noise from the bigger clubs at this level about the refereeing hence my theory. Just with regard to impressing observers with decisions made in hostile environments, clearly incorrect decisions didn't do Stuart Atwell's career much harm - interested in your thoughts on his trajectory.