LeedsCityRam

5 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

I was also a little disappointed, apart from a few isolated moments, with the Sheffield Wednesday fans. I know there wasn't a lot to shout about but Wednesday are normally better value than that. 

Yes, I was a bit surprised with how quiet they were. Noticed some of them fighting amongst themselves after a couple of minutes & their first song wasn't until about 10 minutes in. They even trotted out the archetypal lower division chant of 'Yellow' - never heard any club of any significant stature sing that before. 

As to the game, feels like we've left 2 points out there today. Were the better side in general play throughout with Bird totally outshining Barry Bannan - unfortunately we were poor from wide areas & there seemed to be a real reluctance to get bodies into the box, something we had been a lot better at recently. Consequently Collins & McGoldrick found it heavy going & they weren't helped by some poor officiating - Wendie defenders given a lot of leeway to muscle us about.

Wildsmith 7.5 - one smart save second half & controlled his penalty box well. Rarely threatened in truth though

Smith 6.5 - decent enough shift & his pop passes enabled Dobbin to get on the ball a lot (esp first half). Did well to continue after what looked a severe injury first half

Cashin 7 - general defending was good although got outjumped for a headed chance for them first half. Some sloppy Hollywood balls that were underhit & invited pressure though

Forsyth 8 MOM - excellent all game, both aerially & on the floor. I can't believe how well he's playing as a makeshift CB & I can not justify Curtis coming straight back into the team ahead of him

Sibley 6 - struggled to make an impact today & quality from wide wasn't great

Hourihane 5.5 - quality also an issue with Conor today. One absymal shot first half when worked into a good position

Knight 6 - energetic sub appearance

Bird ? 7.5 - though Max was really good today. Granted he had a lot of space but managed the game well & contributed to our dominance in the centre of the park

Roberts 6 - brief sub cameo

Barkhuisen 6.5 - couple of good touches going forward but pretty quiet also. Unlucky not to score with a great block on their keeper second half

Dobbin 6.5 - he's quick & has a good touch but his decision making & conviction aren't great. Involved a lot first half especially but struggling to engineer those game changing moments. Seemed to back out of a 50/50 with their keeper second half

McGoldrick 6 - some sublime touches as usual but felt he struggled against their back line. Noticed a lack of bodies in the box & he'll always struggle being isolated due to lack of pace

Osula 6 - plenty of bustle & hard work closing down but didn't really get involved in an attacking sense

Collins 6 - not his best day today. Some misplaced passes & didn't get much change from their CBs. As with McGoldrick, felt he was a little isolated today & quality into him from wide wasn't good

Mendez-Laing 6 - like Osula, bustle but little impact going forward

Derby 1 Wendies 1

FRGS Collins

Pompey 1 Derby 0

Franchise 2 Derby 0

European Cup 2nd Round 2nd leg – Wednesday 8th November 1972 & the return leg with Benfica at the Stadium of Light, Lisbon

Despite their commanding 3-0 win two weeks previously, the trip to Lisbon was still a daunting challenge for Derby to navigate in order to reach the Quarter-Finals. They were greeted by 60,000 hostile Portuguese fans & facing a team with an absurd home record – Benfica hadn’t been beaten at home in the league or Europe since the 1965/66 season & had defeated both Sporting Lisbon & FC Porto there in recent weeks.

Derby managed to withstand considerable pressure in the first 30 mins to secure a goalless draw & their place in the last 8 of the European Cup, largely thanks to a superb display from Colin Boulton. Match report below;

Like Derby, Benfica also had their own newspaper – this was the edition of ‘O Benfica’ on the eve of the match;

Full round up of results from Round 2 below – as expected, Real Madrid reversed their first leg deficit to overcome Arges Pitesti in the Bernabeu. Celtic (1967 winners & 1970 runners up) were beaten emphatically in Hungary though to leave Derby as the sole British representatives in the competition

The draw for the Quarter-Finals saw Derby paired with Spartak Trvana of Czechoslovakia (European Cup semi-finalists in 1969) whilst heavyweights Ajax & Bayern Munich were drawn together – Johan Cruyff v Franz Beckenbauer and two clubs who would win 6 consecutive European titles in the 1970s between them. First legs to be played 7th March 1973;

Wildsmith 7 - another good display. Wasn't overly tested but handling & kicking all sound when required

Smith 7 - looked comfortable considering it's not his natural position. Quick to snuff out attacks & technically adept to join in with build up play

Cashin 7.5 - got caught out for pace a couple of times but recovered with well-timed challenges. Usual class on the ball

Forsyth 7 - another good display & did well to deal with a couple of balls over the top second half. Lost half mark for dangling his leg out for their lad to collapse for the penalty

Mendez-Laing 8 - excellent. How on earth Warne thinks he is a wing back is beyond me - absolutely terrorised Bristol & set up two of the goals with his persistence

Bird ? 7.5 - much better than Tuesday. More energetic so won plenty of second balls & more involved in the game

Hourihane 7.5 - like Bird, improved massively from Exeter game. He was tracking back constantly, his set pieces were much better & his energy around midfield meant we gained control of the game

Roberts 7.5 - won the header for Collins' goal & assured defensively all game

Sibley 6 - offered some impetus late on but Bristol dealt with him comfortably enough

Osula 6 - like Sibley, didn't really threaten late on but worked hard to keep the 2 goal lead in tact

McGoldrick 9 MOM - outstanding display. Three excellent goals (particularly the third) & a constant threat throughout. Only blot was his attempt to clear the ball in build up to their first goal

Collins 8.5 - team have clearly missed him, thought he was excellent yesterday. Works so hard to chase down defenders & secure quality possession. Scored also & looks set for a good season

Dobbin 6.5 - not quite as incisive as previous games & fluffed a golden chance to score second half

Thompson 6 - solid sub cameo

Morecambe 0 Derby 0

Will be an interesting watch this one. Wendy fan at work very impressed with Bristol Rovers other night, says their front 3 are excellent & they play good, energetic football. That said, they've come off a few days playing Plymouth & Sheff Weds and I wonder whether their energy levels will sustain another big occasion. They also played a day later than us.

Gven our CB injury issues & how much better we looked with 4 at the back on Tuesday, I'd be surprised if we went for 3 at back/wing backs again. Bristol pretty much matched Wendies & Plymouth for possession so think we need a bit more presence in midfield, hence I'd like to see Jake Rooney make his first league start at DM with Smith at RB & Roberts at LB. If we can get on top of them early, I believe we can tire them out

Some excellent points made on this thread.

As a general rule I hate changing managers & am loathe to call for Warne's head until well into next year - results haven't been that bad at all but the mood around the club is starting to darken. What disturbs me most is the lack of pragmatism which suggests he has one way of playing & isn't prepared to adjust that for the players he has at his disposal.

In time Warne may well be successful here but I don't believe that will be this season. He needs at least 2 windows to bring in the type of players he needs (made harder by the EFL imposed business plan) & a full pre-season to implement the style he believes will win games. Not unlike Bielsa at Leeds, I'd expect us next August to hit the ground running but the question is do the fans & Board have the patience to withstand a tricky few months until then knowing that the style is always likely to be crude even if results do start to go our way eventually. Then we have the longer term consideration of the effect on the Academy (what kind of players do we now need to churn out) & whether Warneball is our preferred long-term style i.e. if Warne doesn't work out, we would need to appoint another high intensity, direct coach given the players he is likely to have at the club if he is here longer than a year.

I think the Board need to have a thorough review of their 3 year plan for DCFC - some (including the media) will have assumed Warne was brought in to get a quick promotion but I'd argue he is going to take just as long as Rosenior would but with more upheaval throughout the club & fanbase. Is that what they wanted when they made the appointment? I doubt it.

25 minutes ago, Yani P said:

Amazing that people want him out after 5 minutes, total nonsense - and it isn't going to happen.

I also don't believe that he wants us to become Rotherham 2, I actually think his aim is to get them playing decent football.

Give the bloke and his team a chance to get their chairs under the table. I think he will be given this season and next as a bare minimum.

 

Why do you believe that is his aim? He has no track record for delivering decent football & he hasn't been particularly pragmatic with either his formations or style of play so far with us.

Wildsmith 7.5 - one good save early on, great kicking & very secure under high ball. In great form recently

Chester 7 - was very steady until forced off by injury

Cashin 8 - fantastic all evening. Kept their front lads very quiet, great distribution & couple of superb forward passes

Forsyth 8 MOM - like Cashin, kept their very quick front men quiet. One excellent cross for Dobbin second half also

Mendez-Laing 7 - very prominent but was up against an excellent FB (Sparkes) & couldn't make that telling contribution despite plenty of breaks/runs down the right

Smith 6.5 - solid performance both in midfield & at right back. Didnt get tested much defensively 

Bird 5.5 - couple of good early passes but struggled to get into the game. Ball wasnt going through him & Exeter pressed well. Want to see him demanding the ball & making his presence felt

Hourihane 4.5 - last 15 mins were decent but first 75 mins were poor. Lacked energy all night & quality from set pieces was dismal

Roberts 7.5 - impressed with him tonight. His energy stood out in our apathetic display & kept Javani Brown relatively quiet

Sibley 5 - anonymous when playing centrally, he then got a silly booking which meant he couldnt stay left wing back for long. Dont want him in that position again though

Osula 6.5 - willing runner but struggling with lack of service & slightly heavy touch

McGoldrick 6.5 - not as much impact as other sub cameos but some nice touches & usual hard work

Dobbin 7 - played well left side & got past his full back a couple of times. Still struggling to make a game changing impact though

Derby 2 Gas 1, FRGS Collins

European Cup 2nd Round 1st leg – Wednesday 25th October 1972 & the visit of mighty Benfica to the Baseball Ground

Fair to say that short of Real Madrid & Ajax, Benfica were probably the most glamorous & storied European club Derby could have drawn in the 2nd round of the European Cup. In the 17 years the European Cup had been in existence, Benfica had won the title twice (the first winners of the tournament other than Real Madrid) & had been runners up on 3 other occasions.

On top of that pedigree, Benfica were in the middle of a 29 match consecutive winning run domestically which saw them clinch the 1972/73 Portuguese title without losing a single game (still a European record) & still had the great Eusebio in their ranks – he would win the European Golden Boot at the end of the season.

All that said, Benfica stepped onto the (soggy) Baseball Ground pitch 50 years ago today & were promptly torn apart on one of the greatest nights in Derby County’s history. Action from the game;

Pre match copy of the Ram;

Summary of results from elsewhere in Round 2 – Gerd Muller scored 5 as Bayern Munich crushed Cypriot minnows Omonia 9-0 whilst there was a surprise in Romania, as the mighty Real Madrid were beaten 2-1 by Arges Pitesti. Second legs to be played 2 weeks later on 8th November;

Derby 1 Grecians 1, FRGS Osula

6 minutes ago, jameso said:

I don't think it's reasonable to attach so much weight to being 7th when PW took over from LR. That was after 9 games, 5 of which were at home and we hadn't managed an away win (or goal).

Had we played more games, the more credible would have been the argument that LR got us to 7th and any subsequent manager improved on that or blew a promising position (although certainly even PW acknowledged it was a decent position for him to start from). 

Had we played even fewer games, the less credible it would be. You could say the same about Rotherham's position in the Championship. If they end up surviving on goal difference (having not survived in the Championship in their last 2 times), is that a successful season under their new manager, or did he blow it having taken over from PW with the club in 8th place and having suffered only one defeat?

I think it's true that Clowes has picked someone who's ideally a fast-track-to-the-Champ manager, but what's all the talk about instilling a culture if not an indication that some long-term planning and changes are required and that PW is seen as the man to do that? I think the second priority outweights the first, for Clowes, and I would go along with that.

Plus, for me, as good as some of LR's summer signings were, we are nowhere near the strength of squad to be too critical of results or even performances yet (and I would argue that performances at Cambridge and Accrington were as good as Ipswich was not). PW has noted too that we don't have those "peak of career" players - we have a (mostly) good crop of youngsters and a lot of experienced and talented older players. I don't know how much we'll be able to do in the transfer window, but surely it's after the opportunity to add to/change personnel that it becomes fairer to judge PW's results and performances.

I hear the argument about it being the wrong style for the players we've got. This may be true, but there are two other considerations:

1) How much of a leap is it to tweak the player to the preferred style? (open question)

2) Does it make more sense to shape the general style, then bring in the square pegs in square holes when we're able to, to slot straight in, rather than having to start all over again with a new way of playing because THEN we'll have the right players?

Some fair points there. With respect to appraising Rosenior, thats all the time he got so unfortunately thats the sample size & hence the benchmark some will apply. I'd also add the context of our chaotic summer & last minute recruitment that makes that position look even better & attracted media confusion as to why he didnt get the full time gig. I'd also have to accept however that some will point to our away record (also a small sample size) as part of that.

As to your last points about building a style within a club in League One, I believe you need to be pragmatic until you have suitable players available. Some players can improve to a certain extent, for instance Curtis Davies has improved on the ball since Rooney & Rosenior were at the club (last night excepted!) but at this level, players tend to have some dominant skills but are weak in other areas. At the top level, players have a more of an 'all court' skillset which is what they need to adapt to the nuanced ways of crowbarring results at the top level.

The contrast between Rosenior's style & Warne's is so large, I think a hybrid would be wise at this stage. Improve fitness of the players by all means but forcing high tempo football on them this quickly results in the kind of scattergun passing, technique & quality we saw last night. They're not capable of it currently although they may be in 2/3 months time allied with suitable January incomings. 

Just now, Tyler Durden said:

Not at all I still believe that reaching the playoffs this season is within our gift. 

How significant is a significant proportion of our fanbase? Again that's your opinion but you're touting it as fact. No need to warn me as frankly it's not a concern for me even it might but true but again is conjecture and pure speculation on your part. 

Folks can bring anything up that's their prerogative - but just bear in mind that the more time they regurgitate the same line it doesn't add any more weight or make it any more valid than the first time it was mentioned - merely just serving to repeat the same entrenched viewpoint ad infinitum.

No, my opinion about our fanbase's expectations of playing style was not presented as a fact. It is an informed opinion based on watching different Derby teams over a fair few years and observing the obvious disdain at football served up by likes of Gary Rowett & Phil Brown. Remember the Rowett season saw noticeable supporter unrest despite us being in & around the top 6 for all of that season. In contrast the teams of McClaren, Burley & Jim Smith are fondly remembered despite the first two also not achieving promotion like Rowett.

Glad you agree about realistic playoff ambitions & am sure we'll revisit that as the season progresses.

42 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

That's your opinion which you're touting as fact.

Show me the articles where Clowes has said he demands promotion this season - which you can't. 

He never said Clowes had publicly demanded promotion. He quite rightly made the observation that in removing a manager who had us in 7th place after a substanial rebuild, it would be bizarre to bring a new manager to comfortably accept a position below that mark. Warne has to achieve top 6 as a minimum or this season is a failure - the club & the media constantly harp on about his promotion record, thats why he's here.

Clearly you're on a mission to dampen down expectation but this point is going to be constantly brought up this season. I'd also warn you that this style of football is going to fast alienate a significant proportion of the fanbase who want us to play good football. Often heard from his fans on here that he would adapt his style to better quality players at Derby but I've seen no evidence of that so far. He in fact has just imposed his style on players ill-suited to his Rotherham demands.

Decent first 20 mins but thereafter thought we were poor & Ipswich not much better.

There are some things I like about our new style but probably more I dislike. We are winning more second balls & undoubtedly getting more men into the box when the ball is out wide. Unfortunately the level of intensity is having a ruinous effect on our composure on the ball, technique, passing & quality from out wide - I saw this a lot with Warne's teams at Rotherham, they often looked a much better side without the ball than with it.

Thought Sibley was very good in that first 20 mins & another good display (and penalty save) from Wildsmith but struggling for positives other than that. Yes, Evans should have been sent off & I didn't think Ipswich were at all top 2 standard but reality is we barely threatened for the last hour of that game & looked like willing runners without the ability to string more than a couple of passes together. I don't believe we have the personnel to play Warneball so you have to question the managerial strategy in forcing the team to set up that way - our centre halves are not quick enough to deal with wingers breaking on them, we don't have proper wing backs any longer & playing at 100 mph means our quality gets eroded.

Tractor Folk 3 Derby 0

9 hours ago, Ellafella said:

Half-marks allowed; please rate all subs. Closes Thursday @ 18:00. Results  by Thursday 22:00. Average is 6.00. Therefore when a sub steps on the pitch he is on 6 - that's the baseline. 

Wilsmith

Chester

Davies

Cashin

Mendez-Laing

Knight

Smith

Dobbin

Osula

McGoldrick

Roberts

Stearman 

Bird

Sibley

 

 

You forgot Barkhuizen!

Wildsmith 8.5 - saved one penalty, put their lad off enough to miss their second, clean sheet, kicked well & handled well throughout

Chester 7.5 - composed throughout although do worry about lack of pace

Davies 8 - dominant aerially which meant they rarely threatened in our final third

Cashin 7.5 - like Chester, very composed. Unlucky with a scissors kick second half

Mendez-Laing 7.5 - good shift defensively (although tired noticably second half) & some decent quality from wide

Kinght 7 - understated but effective. Game suited him as there were plenty of gaps for him to move into

Smith 6 - solid sub cameo

Dobbin 7 - caused difficulties with his pace & worked hard. Still believe there's a lot more to come from him

Osula 9 MOM - two fantastic finishes & an absolute menace in general

McGoldrick 6.5 - as per, added plenty with his hard work & flair late on

Roberts 6.5 - offered left side threat during his brief cameo

Stearman 6 - solid sub cameo

Bird 7.5 - liking the more mobile Max Bird, dictating play a few yards further up the pitch is helping the team away from home

Sibley 8 - excellent all day. They couldn't cope with his direct running

Barkhuizen 8 - best game for Derby so far. Fantastic shift out wide both going forward & covering back line. Quality was good & scored late on

Just now, S75 Ram said:

Was on that train too

In the bees knees now

The Stanley & Nags Head so far, latter seems full of Accy's local 'characters' ?

Just on train over to Accrington from Leeds..its like a condensed version of the South Stand on here. Had to wince when they asked the 3 Swansea fans in the carriage to start the bounce...fortunately the train remains on the tracks. For now.

Accie Stanley 2 Derby 0

Derby 2 Mini-Stoke 0

FRGS Collins