Jourdan

30 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

This

while like everyone else im disappointed and at the crap what we witnessed last night.

weve done the managerial merry go round before and it nearly killed us

sadly weve got to sup it up put our big boy pants on and keep our fingers crossed that time allows the players to gel and execute a game plan with greater conviction than last night

I think Warne will get the whole season to make his mark, unless we see absolutely no signs of improvement and we look in complete free fall.

I believe we have four home games in seven before the end of September, so as disappointing as recent results have been, the opportunities to put things right will come thick and fast. After ten games, for example, we need to be sitting on somewhere between 15 and 20 points and be showing signs of life.

One win in three league games and three losses in four competitively is terminal to our optimism levels, but in real terms it isn’t terminal to our season and it isn’t enough of a sample to make the call that Warne can not retrieve the situation. So there is definitely an element of having to accept our position, be rational, and let things play out.

However the messaging internally has to be loud and clear - we have time to turn it around but things have to change. Not just for Warne, but for all the football staff, and Clowes too.

We are stuttering and each and every one of them needs to step up and pull together for the benefit of the club. Warne needs to show flexibility with his approach. The recruitment team need to present Warne with viable targets that will actually solve problems, not create them. Clowes needs to green light as many signings as permissible.

17 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

no mate.  Idiakez wouldn't get a dirty shirt.  Taylor and Osman did his running for him . Idiakez goals were great but almost all free kicks and pens. Taylors all round play was the most effective part.  If we'd kept Knight and had a bit more muscle with some actual pace for the ball to moved on to he'd be more visible as well as the goals.  He'd probably get more. At the minute we have stand up head and kick defenders which is fine but they ain't quick enough to be pulled around as the ball heads back their way every 30 seconds. There is no retention up top as we have no natural wingers playing out wide and start every game with an angry man who plays ok 1 game in 5 and gives away possession and free kicks in the other 4.  

Idiakez joined us in the 2004-05 season. Osman played for us on loan in 2003-04. They never played in the same Derby team.

So maybe your memory is playing tricks on you.

Idiakez finished up player of the year that year and was sorely and decisively missed v Preston away in the play-offs too.

That said it was a lovely team to watch and everyone played their part. I’d agree with you there.

But Idiakez v Hourihane at this stage of his career? It’s no contest in terms of influence.

15 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

I disagree with Hourihane.  I'd lose Smith or Bird to accommodate the fact he's the only midfielder who's getting 7 or 8 goals,  We did it with Idiakez in the past.  The trick is having the right players in midfield to do the other jobs on a consistent basis. 

I feel Hourihane is a luxury, one we can’t really afford when the midfield isn’t functioning well and we’re getting bossed in games. How many games does he end up being anonymous in?

Yet he is our captain and quite possibly our highest paid player, so it puts us in a difficult position.

Granted he does chip in with goals and assists, but if he is unable to help us control games from midfield and as a result take the pressure off the defence, he will cost us goals and results just as frequently.

The Idiakez comparison doesn’t really hold weight. Idiakez was at the heart of everything we did well for a time. Hourihane has nowhere near the same level of impact.

4 minutes ago, G-Ram said:

You can be patient when you see some sort of improvement, style of play being implemented etc. At the min its diabolical. There is no point in being patient when the man is clearly the wrong person for the job

Our circumstances - trying to rehabilitate after being in financial ruin - dictate the level of patience though, and let’s be honest, we’re in no position to be rash.

Ripping up Warne’s contract will cost money. Dismissing his backroom staff will cost money. Appointing a new manager and his coaching team will cost money. Paying compensation if they are contracted will cost money. Bringing in players for the new manager will cost money.

Money we seemingly don’t have or if we do, we are either not prepared or not permitted to spend it. So which managers would be queuing up to replace Warne in any case?

Warne has been in the job for less than 12 months. He has three years left on a four year contract. He is not getting it right at the moment, that’s plain to see, but surely Clowes will be thinking: maybe things will look different in 20-30 games?

We have to stay calm and Warne has to step up and show what he can do. It’s a 46 game season, not a 4 game season, after all.

9 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

I think he provided his own expectations and guarantees when he first came.  Better to just get out and play.  

True, his interview was anything but humble.

However I am thinking from the standpoint of having experienced players who have probably signed contracts and joined us in this division with a certain level of entitlement, an element of being untouchable irrespective of performance.

Take Hourihane and Bradley, for example. Two players who came in with big fanfare. Right now, it is hard not to look at them as anything but two of the biggest weak links in the team. Yet one is captain and the other came in as a marquee signing and a supposed leading figure both on and off the pitch.

How do we improve the team if the core of the team is dysfunctional? What do we do when the central figures in the team are standing in the way of progression?

He looked like the weakest link v Wigan and that seems to be a continuing trend in the games that have followed.

The system doesn’t play to his strengths, but equally we don’t have the players in the squad to cancel out his shortcomings. We don’t even know if a new system will completely remedy his issues.

What I struggle with is that he was our big summer signing and with that, he probably came with certain expectations and certain guarantees. How can he start at the moment?

Personally, Cashin and Forsyth would be my starting centre backs. Given we have signed several new ones whom were playing at a higher level previously, it doesn’t reflect well on the recruitment team whatsoever.

We looked in a really good place in pre-season but everyone saw that we needed to continue our work in the transfer market and improve the blend and balance of the team. We haven’t done that and we are paying the price for that.

We do have to be patient because realistically the club is not in a financial position to rip up Warne’s contract or even in a good bargaining position to attract a new manager.

I think the only way this improves is if Warne takes a long, hard look and accepts that changes need to be made because with each passing game, goodwill is rapidly diminishing.

Another performance and result that is impossible to defend.

Warne can have success here but he has to help himself and make the job less difficult than it needs to be. He has tried three at the back in three separate spells and each time it has been clear that it is not the optimal set up for the players available.

I really hope he assesses the opening games and understands that being intent on imposing a style of play and a system will only hamper his chances of being successful here.

Three at the back can work. Plymouth, Ipswich, Wednesday all succeeded with it last season. However they also had the freedom and flexibility in the transfer market to make it work and bring in the right profile of player to tweak it and evolve it - players with a mix of presence, pace, power and dynamism - and over time achieve the right balance.

This is a luxury we simply don’t have. We are still under restrictions and still under a business plan, so sadly our transfer business at this point looks painfully inadequate and incomplete.

If our budget is limited and our squad is small and there is little to no scope to improve it, Warne has to be wise to that and make the necessary changes and get the players in a system that might not be perfect but is at least workable.

Persisting with the current set up will only see support desert him from all directions.

Derby 1-1 Oxford

Collins

Burton 2-1 Derby

Waghorn

Let’s see where we are by the end of December.

Writing a manager and a reshaped squad off after two games is bonkers.

We have had the worst start imaginable, but we have time to grow and improve.

This is the biggest test of Warne’s career and his reputation will live or die with what he does in the coming weeks and months to remedy the situation.

I remember leaving Plainmoor after Torquay away last season wondering where the season was headed. Weeks later, we were in the midst of a long unbeaten run and looking inspired. So there’s no reason to think there can’t be a turnaround.

This is a time for calm and for Warne to show his ability to pinpoint problems and make fixes to get the blend right.

If that means dropping one of Smith, Bird or Hourihane to insert an attacking player into the mix, OK. If that means dropping star signing Bradley to reunite Cashin and Forsyth at the back, so be it.

The concern for me is if we see the same XI and the same approach as we did v Wigan. I understand set ups have teething problems but we can’t really afford to write off games while the players settle into a system. It’s not even looked 70-80% of the way to being right, after all.

We have to show some bravery and adaptability.

The results and performances are tough to take, but hopefully Warne and his team learn from this and make the necessary changes and push for the necessary signings.

It doesn’t look good so far, but some of the posts on here are extremely reactionary and exaggerated.

Yes, what we have tried so far hasn’t worked. You can see that both pro and anti Warne camps are in agreement there. No-one is in denial. It’s the worst start imaginable.

However it is a very recoverable position, so do you abandon a manager and his project on the basis of two games and 180 minutes of meaningful football with a reshaped squad?

Seasons and fates are not defined by two games. Wins v Burton, Oxford and Fleetwood would present a totally different picture.

We need to stay calm and Warne needs to deliver a response and quickly.

9 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I think this is a very fair assessment. It seems to me, that the fans who were dissapointed or couldn't understand Paul Warne's appointment have not been shouting any louder recently. What we are not seeing much of now is those who were cheerleaders for Warne last season speaking up for him too much. This could be for a number of reasons, but there has been a change of mood on this board, and Warne has a few more fans to win over/win back than he did say at the end of January. Hopefully his next two signings will help him deliver. I think we have a pretty good squad. It should go up. Come on Warney earn your money.

I would love to defend and speak up for Warne, but on the basis of Saturday’s performance, it is difficult.

It was the kind of result and performance that would give anyone with doubts over Warne all the ammunition needed. It would be plain ignorant to suggest otherwise.

The tactics didn’t work. The shape didn’t work. We conceded two painfully avoidable goals that highlighted major flaws in the coaching team’s approach. The overall approach brought the best out of few, not many.

Warne doesn’t have to win me over personally, but I think it is fair to say that the situation is fragile and goodwill from the fanbase could evaporate very quickly If signings aren’t forthcoming and there aren’t signs of life.

We really need a win tonight to get the ball rolling and build some confidence because if not, our upcoming run looks littered with trip hazards.

Everyone knows that we’ve only played one game, but the opening day in many ways can be a tone setter.

Everyone knows that I back Warne and believe he has what it takes to succeed here, but after the way we finished last season and the way the summer transfer window has unfolded, we needed a positive, affirmative start to wash away growing concerns.

You could feel the energy in the stadium - it wasn’t one of confidence or excitement. It was rather flat - a mix of nerves, tension and in some cases trepidation.

The performance didn’t do anything to lift the mood. Making one solitary signing won’t do that either, as welcome as Waghorn obviously is.

I don’t think anyone is whining. I think people are seeing fears realised and in some cases, like mine, people are just disappointed we didn’t show more.

That was desperately disappointing.

The Warne doubters will be in full voice and I can’t really blame them. It wasn’t a performance or a result that will get people excited about the season ahead.

I think the effort and application was there but the quality, cohesion, composure and decision making were all completely missing.

The system didn’t look very effective. The back three were wide open and vulnerable to pace. The midfield three were too safe. It didn’t bring the best out of Collins and Mendez-Laing. The attacking threat was too one-dimensional and predictable, and we were relying too much on hopeful crosses into the box.

Both goals were a disaster and completely self-inflicted, but Wigan sent a warning sign within the first minute when they opened us up and sent a cross rolling dangerously across the box and they also created some good openings in the first half before they eventually scored. We were too open and disjointed.

Of course, the new players will need time and we still clearly need 3-4 players to freshen things up and put ourselves in the best possible position.

On another day, it might have been a draw but a very worrying start but hopefully a huge learning exercise and wake up call.

Derby 3-1 Wigan

Collins

13 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

I can honestly say I've also never heard of either of these players.

Carlton Morris was a standout for Barnsley before getting promoted with Luton.

Colwill plays for Chelsea but has just come off a breakout year on loan at Brighton and winning the under 21s Euros.

These Warne doubters eh - clearly lacking in knowledge! 😁

1. Bolton

2. Barnsley

3. Derby

4. Oxford

5. Peterborough (if they avoid a financial meltdown)

6. Bristol Rovers

Best of the rest: Portsmouth, Blackpool, Charlton and Wycombe

Timing is everything.

If you had asked many fans a few weeks ago when we were active in the market and making promising and shrewd looking moves, they likely would have been in favour of Bird moving on and getting a fresh start.

Our midfield does need a shake up.

But at the moment, at a time when our business has ground to a halt and the recruitment team appear to have exhausted all avenues, it will raise concerns that another important player is on their way out and we don’t seem to have a succession plan in place.

I have been quite relaxed so far, but today this news is the first sign of concern for me. 

I think we are in a really good place.

Warne is building the squad in his image. He has been backed and his vision has been backed but in a sensible way that won’t endanger the club’s future.

Of course there is still work to be done and of course we have to see how it translates on the pitch but the signs look good to me.

Are we clear favourites for promotion? No. Are we guaranteed to succeed? No. Is there grounds for optimism? Absolutely. Can we judge Warne from here on in? No question.

With each passing day, this looks more and more like a Warne team. He is bringing in the characters, the leaders, the grafters, the example-setters that he wants.

Top six looks like a fair target and expectation at the moment, because there is a nagging feeling that something is missing for top 2.

I am confident of a positive season. We only look two or three forward players away from being a team no-one will want to face.

42 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Could it be… that Paul Warne can’t attract players?

Wonder who told you all that and got laughed at… 

I can’t believe Warne approved this.

My confidence in him is beginning to waver.

George Burley and Steve McClaren wouldn’t have stood for this.

35 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Ahh, the Cocu hating, Rooney hating, Rosenior hating, Warne loving, supporter is suggesting we need to take circumstances into account, and allow a little more time.

Not exactly an original response, or a particularly relevant one.

Let’s focus on the present.

We’ve had two days of pre-season. We haven’t played our first friendly. How many clubs have finished their transfer business at this point? None.

Most if not all clubs still have deals to conclude after they are several games into the season and some will be working on deals right up until the deadline.

To question the manager’s ability to attract good forwards would be fair and valid after we have lost a few games to nil and missed out on a few realistic and attainable signings.

But now? 

You’re assuming there’s a problem before any genuine evidence of one exists.

Fuelling the Warne doubt before we’ve even lost 1-0 to Matlock? You’ve really outdone yourself.

It’s only July 1st. We’ve been in pre-season for a few days. We’ve not even played a friendly.

We have made four signings, all of whom will strengthen the squad and give us more depth and flexibility and all of them have a good track record in this division and experience of the division above.

Knowing how quickly deals can come together, why would anyone be twitching?

We need to judge Warne and this squad with the fullness of time. We have to see how the team looks on the pitch and how it performs in relation to the rest of the division.

Warne is looking for a winning blend. It’s not necessarily always big names and big reputations that deliver the best teams. Last year’s champions Plymouth were not laden with star names, but what they did have was a group of players that bought into the manager’s vision and executed it on the pitch.

Let’s wait and see if Warne can assemble a group in a similar manner and let’s not let our assumptions hold us in a vice-like grip. We could be one of the best footballing sides in the division come August 5th.

I don’t see what more the club could have done here.

We haven’t had any leverage where Bielik is concerned for a while now.

We are obviously trying to make the best of an extremely bad situation.

If the fee is £1 million, then it’s a small victory.