Jourdan

5 minutes ago, PrideParkhead said:

You're a major part of the problem. Accepting s****. Enjoy it while us  people in touch with reality Enjoy our weekends 

What’s the reality?

We’ve had a less than spectacular start to the season? Results have been mixed? Performances have largely been poor? Who has said this is not the case?

Everyone can see the reality. Some people are missing the fact that it’s a 46 game season. Absolutely nothing has been won or lost and nothing has been decided. Portsmouth are certainly not champions and we are certainly not doomed.

Everyone wants better results, better performances and better players, but we are where we are and this will take time.

13 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

Because Waghorn or anybody else might not score at all, like today, and we lose and we're not dreaming again. It's not rocket science.

In nine league games, today was the first time we haven’t scored.

Anyone would think we hadn’t scored since February the way you are carrying on.

2 minutes ago, angieram said:

No, because he should have laid it off to Barhuizen instead of keep running with it, then it would have been. 

My left ear is still ringing from my other half yelling at him repeatedly to do exactly that.

It makes you wonder what goes on in footballers' minds at times! 

This is a very important point. I think people forget these players are not top class players with top class decision making and composure.

Warne has obviously made mistakes this season. These players have also made mistakes this season, the kind of mistakes games hinge upon. There will be days when your players simply don’t deliver no matter how much you try.

Collins, Barkhuizen, NML, Waghorn - they will have days when everything they touch turns to gold but equally they will also have days when they frustrate you to high heaven. We know that very well by now - you have to take the rough with the smooth.

Today was one of those days. On Tuesday, it could be the reverse. Waghorn scores two, we win and people are dreaming again. Why so much panic?

8 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Genuinely at what point aren't we a work in progress? What points in this division would be unexpected? We've won 2 of the last 13 at home I believe with 11 goals scored. That's really not good enough. I think many fans are starting to have enough of the turgid Warne ball which is being served up. 

How many points did you expect from our five home games? 10? 11? 12? 15?

No-one has said that 5 points from 15 at home is acceptable, but there hasn’t been very much between us being where we are and having more points on the board.

Cut out a mistake here and there and we have four to five more points v Wigan, Oxford and Portsmouth instead of just one. Take a chance here and there and we have two more points v Cambridge and instead of just one.

I really think this feeding frenzy is unnecessary.

2 minutes ago, jameso said:

But surely one man's "he's still working on things" is another man's "he hasn't got a clue what needs doing"?

Maybe, I guess we will see what Clowes’ view is in the coming days and weeks.

It seems to me fans are desperately craving a managerial change to the point where any sense of perspective is lost.

We all would love to see picture perfect performances and results, but the reality is that it will still be the same group of players until January who have yet to implement any plan particularly well.

We go direct? It’s too chaotic. We keep possession? It’s too slow. We have the ball? In control but no spark. We don’t have the ball? Pathetic.

What’s to say the new manager will do better? What’s to say the new manager won’t have teething problems?

6 minutes ago, Marriot Ram99 said:

f****** clueless if you think that was acceptable.  Passing round the back and then getting it out wide to hopefully punt it in the box isn't acceptable ,when the football is that bad and the results at home are as they are don't think many people could do worse than Warne.

Why are you so angry?

We have 14 points from nine games. We are three points from the play off places with one to two games in hand depending on who plays on the 14th.  It’s not a doomsday scenario.

We are a work in progress. We have 37 games to get things right and it’s clear that Warne is still working on things and trying to achieve the right balance whilst dealing with a squad that has many absentees through injury and many players searching for form or fitness, sometimes both.

Who said anything anywhere about it being acceptable? I think we are all frustrated. We all want better football married with positive results, but there’s no need to react like this.

It’s a long season and we’ll pick up unlikely points and drop nailed on points whoever the manager is.

Warne really can’t win with this fan base.

Last week we win 2-0 but that wasn’t good enough because of the way we won. We didn’t have enough possession, enough control and didn’t keep the ball and so on.

This week we try to implement that and it doesn’t quite come off and it’s a frustrating 0-0 and still Warne is dragged across the coals.

We are only three points from the play off places. We are likely to be in the top 6 if we win our game(s) in hand.

Why not let the manager and the team work out these teething problems before we come down so hard on them?

65% possession, 12 shots, 83% passing success, 0-0.

The performance police:

Everyone else:

The injuries are mounting up but isn’t this just part and parcel of football?

Football is an intense sport, and more and more is demanded of the players these days. Clubs have injury crises at every level, even the very elite clubs with very elite set ups.

I am sure with Warne’s background in fitness and physiotherapy that if he knew a magic formula to stop players from getting injured, he would be using it to his advantage.

The reality is that we took a gamble on TJJ and Embleton where other clubs may have been more reluctant to, given their recent injury records.

This gamble was symptomatic of the difficulties we have had with recruitment and managing the transfer market. A case of high risk but high reward too as they could have added some much needed quality had things been different. TJJ still might.

It’s disappointing but unsurprising that people are suggesting this is down to Warne, yet when McGoldrick was missing for Rosenior, it was just pure bad luck.

Derby 2-0 Cambridge

Waghorn FRGS

I don’t think there is any need to panic really. The next eight games will take us to the end of October and most people agree that 15-20 games into the season is the right time to start making assessments into the manager’s performance. Rosenior didn’t get that luxury because he was in an interim position.

Personally I am looking for us to be winning anywhere from 5 to 7 in the upcoming run and setting a strong platform for the remainder of the season. We have to show improvement, we can all see that. Warne has to show us all what he’s made of.

Where Rosenior is concerned, Hull have made a very good start and look competitive. But so do Ipswich. So do Plymouth. So did Rotherham last season after 8-9 games.

If Hull are still in the same position 30-35 games down the line, then this is when Rosenior should be getting a ton of credit because he will have likely outperformed clubs who have recently come down to the Championship or teams who have had previous success at that level.

If anything, the way the Championship is shaping up indicates that there probably isn’t so much to fear about a return to the division.

Maybe a stable structure and a settled manager and group can help us.

Why do people do this to themselves every year?

It would take something incredible for any of Luton, Burnley or Sheffield United to get nine points or fewer across 32 more games.

Superior teams like Chelsea, Villa, West Ham, Brentford and Brighton will have off days and give them opportunities to pick up odd points here and there. Forest, Wolves, Everton, Bournemouth, Palace and Fulham are very beatable. Then they have four games against their immediate rivals.

They might not break the 25 point mark but they would have to be unfathomably poor to trouble our record breakers.

A 2-0 win in a potential banana skin v a newly promoted side?

Tomorrow feels like a sliding doors kind of game.

If we win, you could see a pathway for us to start building momentum, stringing results together and moving up the table. The next 8-9 games present a real opportunity to improve our form and lift the mood.

However if we lose, the pressure once again cranks up on Warne, the players and the staff. I honestly think the fanbase is wavering to the point where 4-5 more bad or uneven results could be Warne’s undoing.

It’s a very difficult game. Carlisle will be fired up to play one of the biggest sides in the division and get a scalp.

Here’s hoping for a positive, logical, balanced line up and a professional performance. Warne needs a nice anniversary present from the players.

Wildsmith

Wilson - Nelson - Cashin - Forsyth

Smith - Fornah - Sibley

NML - Waghorn - Barkhuizen

Carlisle 1-3 Derby

Waghorn FRGS

A 2-0 win v Lincoln reserves in a competition that is irrelevant until the semi final stage?

1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Interesting comparisons you've made there.

First obvious comment is that both Leeds & Southampton had points deductions in their first season in League One - 15 for Leeds & 10 for Southampton. Leeds were still able to finish 5th that first season (91 points before deductions) & Southampton finished 7th (83 points before deductions) - both better than Warne could manage in his first season. Pointing to the number of seasons they spent in League One has to be seen in the context of the disadvantages they had that we didn't.

Despite that, both Leeds & Southampton fired their managers the following season after 12 months in charge (Gary McAllister & Alan Pardew), before making the ultimate appointments that took them up (Simon Grayson & Nigel Adkins). Probably a lesson in there somewhere.

Re Bolton, this is their 3rd season in League One after being promoted from League Two - they weren't a Championship step down. They've come from a long way further back than us but have shown consistent improvement since returning - 9th in 2021/22 and 5th 2022/23. By contrast, I don't think even you would argue Derby have improved in the 12 months Warne has been in charge.

Obviously circumstances are never going to be exactly the same, but it doesn’t change the point that it takes time to recover.

Leeds and Southampton had their own problems, but equally they will have had privileges we have been without too.

Southampton signed Lambert for £1 million during their first summer in League 1, for instance and spent £3-4 million across two transfer windows in 2009-10.

Something we can only dream of, at present…

1 hour ago, S8TY said:

You’re exaggerating to suit your own narrative…I don’t expect champagne football and yes I would like some cohesive type of football and after a year I’m seeing us get steadily worse

it costs me over a 100 quid with fuel and beer and food and ticket to watch a load of b******* basically and I’ve travelled all over and not only in the good times I went to virtually every game home and away including midweek games when we were last in this division 

I underdstand about building teams and the transition from nearly extinct to flourishing but I’m not seeing the foundations being securely put in place yet from our gaffer that’s why I’m concerned 

if you’re going to lay foundations then at least build them correctly and solidly or it’s pointless 

my point is if we had a manager who was trying to build something with gameplay that I remotely could buy into I’d agree as it takes time …but I’m not seeing that at all and wonder how much we are regressing and accumulating the wrong type of players for the football id like to see …I do understand your points but I don’t need the glaringly obvious pointing out cannot see it getting better under Warne I’m afraid Jourdan just my opinion 

What is my narrative? It’s not really about supporting Warne. I haven’t defended any of the performances so far this season. The results are a reflection of an unsettled and disjointed team. Believe me, a 500-mile round trip to see us look so ordinary v Wigan did nothing but set off massive alarm bells. 

My narrative is more about time and patience and not expecting too much too soon. If a new manager walked in tomorrow, I wouldn’t be expecting an immediate upshot either. I honestly don’t think this is a squad that is playing well below its ceiling, so what would a new manager who can only bring in free agents until January really affect?

We’ve all watched enough football to know that Warne is under pressure. Bad performances and bad results - it’s not the kind of marriage that can last, so Warne probably has 9-10 games to turn things around. Like him or not, that’s the harsh reality of football.

Personally I’d give him until the end of the season but I am not the one who makes those decisions. The question is then, what do we do if the new manager doesn’t hit the ground running?

I can understand your concerns but as you have said, you have been a long-time supporter for tens of years and you have seen the few highs and many lows. If you have got this far, why would you stop now?

6 hours ago, S8TY said:

Because of the manner of how we play for the first time in many years I'm thinking of not making the long trip up from Kent as It's really horrendous football.....I want warne to succeed i really do but I just can't see me ever saying .."wow we are controlling games and outplaying teams " I know we are a world away from Brighton and where they currently are ....but there lies a good example of how to do it ...get good coaches and keep the same playing style, If anyone watches how Brighton played at United yesterday the football, passing and moving is quality and light years ahead of our archaeic turgid football ....I just can't see it changing under Warne I'm afraid

Brentford and Brighton are where they are after 10-15 years of gradual building. Bloom has been owner of Brighton since 2009 and Benham has been owner of Brentford since 2012 and has been an investor since 2007.

Yes, both clubs are great examples of how to get things right. But over that time period, they have had near misses and some highs and lows too. It hasn’t been completely smooth sailing but they have developed a club philosophy and stayed true to it and probably been able to because of the relatively low expectations.

Clowes has been owner of the club for just over a year so perhaps we need to be patient and understand that what Clowes is trying to build and trying to instil will take more than 12 months.

Perhaps a fairer comparison is other clubs who have come out of administration and bounced back from relegation?

It took Leeds three seasons to get promoted out of League 1 following administration and relegation. It took Southampton two seasons. Bolton suffered back to back relegations and are now into their fourth campaign in five in League 1.

Yes, the football isn’t great at the moment but the club is in recovery mode and perhaps we have to be realistic about those timescales. Expecting us to get promoted playing champagne football at this stage in our recovery is only something you might witness in a fairytale.

Stick with the club. Keep going to games when you can. Pain often comes before glory.

Derby 2-1 Portsmouth

Waghorn FRGS

To be honest, these forums do little but leave those involved having what they said, what they didn’t say, what attire they wore and what beverage they consumed picked apart until anything of value is completely diminished.

Warne and the players shouldn’t be at these events. They should be fully focused on the weekend. The best message they can put out is three points and a good performance on Saturday.

2 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

We had a budget, a lot of which I see as wasted.   I've said along we needed younger legs. If a team thinks the way you play football is conjusive to that player getting better development, they'd happily negotiate a lower loan fee over a bigger fee at another club.  It's a pee in the ocean. 

I know we missed out on one player just after we signed Washington who's started very well at another club in this league. We missed out because another club offered more wages and he was due to sign that day.  I was surprised we were gazumped by this club but the funds were used elsewhere and this fella looks a much better player. 

Are the kind of young players we want attainable though?

All summer fans have suggested we sign Nombe, for example. In the end he goes to Rotherham for around £1 million. So perhaps there is a disparity between what we ideally want and what we can realistically get?

We’ve wasted our budget? How do we know? Surely it takes more than six games to reach such a conclusion?

This would be a good point if we were 30-35 games in and looked toast. What if this mystery player’s form dwindles and what if the players we signed instead begin to click and we shoot up the table? Would you still think the same?

4 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

I don't agree with that to be honest. Burleys team was put together with magic beans as revenue and Smiths team that got promoted was during a period of financial cost cutting.  The team he put together on promotion was the likes of Laursen and Dailly for 500 k a piece. Asanovic for 600k, Delap 400 k, Wanchope 500 k, McGrath and Dorigo on frees. Bainio and Eranio were frees albeit Eranio would have been on a good wage.

You can create a good passing side if you choose to go that way by getting in 4 or 5 on season long loans currently to facilitate the more agricultural players, so it's even easier nowadays.

 

There are exceptions and there are norms. What I said was that building a good passing side is usually complex, expensive and timely.

To me, Burley’s and Smith’s sides were exceptional in every sense of the word, hence why they are still reference points for many fans some 20-25 years later.

If it was normal and easily achievable to produce a good passing side, surely the last 25-30 years as Derby fans would have been much more fruitful?

Where are these 4-5 accomplished loan signings coming from if you can’t afford their loan fees and to contribute to their salaries?

I think when it works, our football under Warne can be very enjoyable and no less exciting to watch than any other top League 1 team. The challenge for Warne is to marry performances and results more consistently so we can improve on last season.

I get having a preference for passing attacking football, but there is a reason why there have only been three Derby teams in 25 years to produce it on a reasonably consistent basis.

Good passing attacking teams are not easy (nor usually cheap or quick) to produce, otherwise we would have had far more success at it in the last 25 years.

I think Derby fans in general are too wedded to this idea that we are a club that should play in a certain way. As fans of a club in our position, we surely have to be patient, understanding, open-minded, and also able to manage our expectations.

As far as I am concerned, people are expecting too much too soon when we have signed 11 new players and we are only six games in. It’s not like it’s the same team from last season with 1-2 tweaks.

Nothing points to that more than Warne being stranded somewhere between wanting to implement his ideas and having to get results by any means to keep fans off his back. Is it any wonder tactics, style and selection all seem very muddled?

We are clearly still a work in progress but once Warne figures everything out, there is a good chance we can be both competitive and exciting to watch.

11 hours ago, Chris_Martin said:

yes, we only needed to finish 6th to potentially achieve that, we didn't need 95 points.

Plymouths manager has only been there about 6 months longer than warne has for us and they are playing far superior football. 

More concerning than the results is the 'football' we are playing. I have seen nothing throughout warne's entire time here to suggest he knows how to play any other way, why do you believe he will?

Schumacher became manager in December 2021, so he’s been in charge for just shy of two years and his predecessor Lowe arrived in 2019. So this Plymouth project is the culmination of four years of work.

Warne hasn’t even completed his first full year in charge.

It’s OK to have high expectations, but it’s important to put realistic timescales on them.

I personally think we have played good football in patches under Warne. The key now is for him to get us in a position to produce it consistently. I think by the end of the season if the football and the results are not up to par, the club will be well within their rights to reassess.