Jourdan

If we decide to cash in on Bird and Knight, then we have to trust Warne and the men behind the scenes.

I like both players but maybe they have reached their ceiling with us. At their age, they should be developing and improving year on year but they seem to have stagnated. Sometimes you can hold on to a young player for too long.

A fresh start might be exactly what both players need, especially as neither really made their mark in this division last season, well perhaps not to the levels we would have expected. They both excel at specifics, whereas we probably need midfielders who are more well rounded.

Personally I think we’ll be figured out pretty quickly if we persist with Bird and Knight as two key components of our midfield. Freshening things up and becoming more unpredictable would be a step in the right direction for me.

We have to be moving forward.

Anything less than play offs and Warne’s job would be in serious jeopardy and understandably so.

I think top 6 has to be the target at first but our targets will evolve over time. There are still too many variables at play to say whether automatic promotion is a realistic target. 

We have to see how recruitment goes and we also have to see how the new team gels and how we measure up against the other 23 teams in the first 10 games of the season.

At that point, you have a fair idea of a team’s prospects. Many will be true to form, but there are always surprise packages, for better or worse.

McGoldrick is a quality player and his moments of magic will be missed.

You can’t replace him like for like under the parameters we are working. All we can do is look at building a more balanced and varied team where goals are coming from all angles.

I think we also have to remember nothing is a straight line. Form and confidence go up and down.

Just because Sibley, Collins, Barkhuizen and NML didn’t hit great heights last season doesn’t mean they can’t this season.

This is their opportunity to shine and step out of McGoldrick’s shadow. It’s a fresh start and a clean slate and Warne will present that challenge to those players.

We’ll be absolutely fine.

The way I see it, Wildsmith was only second to McGoldrick last season in terms of quality and overall importance to the team. 

With McGoldrick gone, Wildsmith is the first name on the teamsheet. So for Vickers to take the number one spot he will have to be some player!

It’s a problem but one Warne will be very much glad to have.

Two very shrewd signings with plenty of upside.

Having Vickers will be valuable given we’ll be playing in four competitions again and we now know first-hand how a fixture pile up can take its toll. Wildsmith will be pushed and able to be rotated for a break, but also we’re covered if he gets injured too.

Bringing in Ward again looks sound. A mainstay in a Peterborough side that is well known for being free scoring and attacking. His versatility and potential output gives us options all of a sudden and will lighten the load for NML.

They aren’t signings that blow off the roof or grab any headlines by any means, but again I think we are moving towards a more balanced squad and a cohesive unit rather than a collection of headline grabbing individuals.

I like what I see so far - the signings look considered, logical, very much low risk and high reward.

I don’t think Warne, Thomas and the recruitment team can really win at the moment.

If we get the players in quickly and then when some don’t work out, we’ll be told the club didn’t do their homework.

If we leave it late and then when some don’t work out, we’ll be told the club weren’t proactive enough or made many panic buys.

If we sign proven players and then when some don’t work out, we’ll be told the club should have unearthed some gems.

If we sign unproven players and then when some don’t work out, we’ll be told the club should have shown more ambition and signed players with pedigree.

Let’s show some patience and give Warne some time to actually realise his plans and deal with the task at hand.

Are we still a draw? Of course we are. Our very own manager left a stable club in a higher division because of our standing and potential.

6 minutes ago, alram said:

beat the club with or voice our concerns about a lackluster start to the summer?

this is the year we should be kicking on, feels like we are heading backwards as things stand. it may change, but i am not going to sit here and ignore the red flags, the club needs to be proactive not reactive

I think this is premature.

Our pre-season friendlies start in four weeks. The players won’t be back in for pre season for another 2-3 weeks either.

Also keep in mind how quickly deals can come together - it’s not transfer deadline day, we have weeks to figure everything out, not hours.

Just because nothing has been announced doesn’t mean things aren’t taking shape behind the scenes and out of the public glare.

To be honest, I am not really worried about who is leaving.

Contracts come to an end. Loan deals come to an end. Players will make their choices.

We don’t want to get reckless and desperate just to hang on to a player or two, regardless of how good they may be. We’d be going back to the same ways that got us here in the first place.

For me, we don’t need impressive individuals. We need signings that will contribute to us being a better, more cohesive, more effective team.

Let’s see who we bring in before we pass judgement.
 

I am not sure what Warne and Clowes could have done.

Sentiment trumps sense every time. Football is a sport of emotions and as we all know, there is no greater honour imaginable than representing your boyhood club.

On the one hand, McGoldrick will be a very big loss and on the other, this really gives Warne a chance to shake the squad up and bring his own players in.

I just hope we have been preparing for this eventuality for a while and haven’t been caught by surprise.

Cashin seeing the sights of Pompeii and the Amalfi Coast?

You can see why he’s our most valuable player and clubs higher up are interested.

A man of culture and good taste.

Since 2001-02 when I got my first season ticket:

1. Jewell (second half of 2007-08 and first half of 2008-09)

2. Gregory (2002-03)

3. Brown (2005-06)

4. Cocu + Rooney (particularly the end of 2019-20 and all of 2020-21)

5. Clough (particularly second half of 2010-11 and much of 2011-12)

Those spells stand out as being the most depressing times to be a Derby fan in my match going time.

I don’t think you can really put Pearson and Clement here as Mel had the patience and longevity of a three year old watching an opera.

Neither finished the season, so who knows what would have happened had both been given the time to reverse poor runs that Lampard and Rowett were granted, for instance?

Congratulations to them.

If you gain 10 points from 15 at the business end of the season and reverse a run of no wins in 11 to stay up, you deserve credit.

It’ll be interesting to see how things develop over the summer. Will they be able to hold on to Gibbs White, Johnson and Danilo? Will they be able to spend big again? What will Marinakis see as success next season? 

You’d imagine they will be in a mini league of nine with Palace, Wolves, Bournemouth, Fulham, one from Leeds, Leicester and Everton, and the three promoted clubs.

Get it right and they can be towards the top  of that mini league. Get it wrong and they could be back in the Championship. It will be another high stakes season for them.

Leicester finished 5th and won the FA Cup two years ago. They were 8th and in the semi finals of a European competition a year ago. Now they are two games from relegation.

Amazing implosion. They were once the model to follow for a club of our size. It just goes to show how hard it is to become a genuine mainstay in the PL and I am sure Brighton, Brentford and Fulham will see this as a warning.

You constantly have to evolve. You can’t really stand still and three or four poor strategic decisions can quickly undo getting so many decisions right.

Sacking Rodgers with no succession plan and 10 games to go and stumbling into the arms of Dean Smith is just so unlike Leicester and not what we’ve come to expect.

Something tells me they could even find the Championship difficult to navigate.

2 minutes ago, bimmerman said:

He's got a court case next week for assaulting 2 females in town when he was drunk on a weds night in the local wetherspoons

He's already pled guilty to 1 charge, not guilty to the next

City dropped him when he got arrested and have allowed the contract to run down so they can release him. Morally the correct thing to do for a club in the community 

It’s an interesting dilemma for clubs in our division and possibly even those in the lower half of the Championship, given how influential he was in the first half of the season.

I can understand why Exeter have frozen him out and let his contract run down. As a club that is built upon trust ownership and community involvement, their stance makes complete sense.

But is there a club out there who will look at his situation and wonder if they can take the heat?

I am sure there’ll be clubs out there thinking they could be the ones that are able to turn him around and help him reform.

There are a number of players who have bounced back from major issues of misconduct, after all.

Even our very own NML. 

1 minute ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Always going to win this one.  Saints had too win so they probably left gaps the size of a Greek war profiteers arse at 1-0.  3 to go.  Expect it may be as you were with 2 to go.

Forest will be fine, unfortunately.

Beating both Brighton and Southampton will have done their confidence wonders.

With their three games left, normally you would say if their opponents play to their potential, it’s three losses for Forest.

But they only need one surprise result now, even a singular point might be enough, so they should be feeling very confident.

It might not have been £170 million well spent. They’ll probably get rid of 70-80% of this year’s signings. But the signings that have worked out have really stepped up in their hour of need.

Forest 4-3 Southampton

I am rapidly falling out of love with football.

2 minutes ago, nottingram said:

This is fine and all makes perfect sense but doesn’t actually diminish much of what people are saying about Warne.

You can count on one hand the number of people who actively want him out, it’s pointless because barely anyone actually thinks that. But there are legitimate concerns that can’t just be brushed under the carpet despite posters getting their throats jumped down as soon as they say them. Our record is crap against top half teams. We have had an alarming drop off since February. We have blown multiple chances to get into the play offs etc etc. 

You then have, and I mean no disrespect by this but it is true, all this coming from a poster who has regularly wanted managers sacked. And that is managers who haven’t been in post long, or who have inherited (far more so than Warne) difficult circumstances under which to operate. And it makes it all look a bit confusing. It’s great you want to give him time but given you’ve been so vocal about managers in the past I don’t think it’s a great look to be getting on at people for not being jubilant about a manager who, so far, has done a job that could probably be argued as ranging between poor to maybe just above average.

Who is saying people should be jubilant? I am not jubilant. I am thoroughly disappointed and frustrated.

I have not even said Warne has done a successful job. I have said this season has been a learning curve and next season is the season to expect and demand success as we should, in theory, be better placed for that.

People are more than entitled to their concerns, but it’s all in the way you put them across.

I don’t really understand what is confusing. I think Warne was a sensible appointment given his track record and in time I think he will prove that.

Should next season be a disaster, then of course those who have advocated for him like myself will look silly.

When I was vocal about previous managers like Cocu, Rooney and Rosenior, getting pushback was the norm. Why should those in the anti Warne brigade be immune?

I think it’s fair game if you are not rude or disrespectful.

Wildsmith will be first choice goalkeeper and deservedly so.

Time will tell on everything else. Who wants to stay? We don’t know. Who does Warne want to keep and see as part of his plans? We as yet don’t know.

I think the first thing I would be looking to do is tie down Forsyth and McGoldrick for another year. Both of them are absolutely top professionals and will be mainstays in the team if they decide to stay.

22 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

No offence Jourdan but that is a weak defence. You are in essence saying Warne & the players are fibbing on camera to keep the fans happy because their obvious disappointment at missing out contradicts your opinion. And the notion that an honourable resignation is the only true confirmation of failure is very far-fetched.

The players will have expected to finish top 6 after returning there after the Burton win (and having been there most of the past 4 months) & had two bites of the cherry last week and this to secure our spot. Of course they will see it as failure - I'd question their professional ambition if they didn't. I don't disagree that we have never looked like one of the top 3 teams but I'm struggling to think of anyone who legitimately thought top 2/3 was achievable - I certainly didn't. 6th on the other hand very much was in our grasp & we haven't done it.

And like I said earlier, disagreeing with you doesn't imply bias. You've cleared stated your position from the start with Warne & are relentless in sticking to that, which is fine but means you're not really best placed to comment on a lack of balance from others.

And what’s my position?

I wanted to give a manager with a good track record and experience in the division a chance, yes. I wanted him to succeed, yes.

I think he deserves time to bring in his own players and put his stamp on things and not be written off after less than a season and marginally missing out on the play offs in the challenging circumstances he inherited, yes.

If that’s all I am guilty of, I can live with that. 

Next season is a completely different animal and Warne should be held to a different standard. He will have a full summer window to operate in, a full pre season to embed exactly what he wants, and everyone starts on zero. Any disadvantages he will have can be countered with months of careful and considered strategic planning.

I think we will be placed amongst the frontrunners given what we know about the division as it is, the instability of the teams coming down and the strength of the teams going up. Last summer ask a random Derby fan and we could have finished anywhere from 1st to 14th.

Next season, we will have much more clarity. Warne needs a strong start next season and he needs promotion next season, or people’s patience will genuinely desert him. 

If you are upset that people would suggest you are not being fair, perhaps don’t draw up Excel spreadsheets and come across like you’re only furthering an agenda?

See you in August!

13 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Hang on a sec, Warne has called it a failure, the players have called it a failure (Hourihane anyway in his interview) & I happen to agree with them. So lets not pretend its an outlier opinion or sensationalist.

The attempt to tarnish contrary opinions to yours as lacking balance is pretty shameless but I would point you in the direction of my post following the win at Exeter where I was complimentary of the performance, result & specifically praised Warne. So your accusation of constant denigration of Warne is totally unfounded. I will post as I see the current situation & if Warne goes on to be successful (which I hope he does) then I will praise him accordingly - I'm not interested in this polarisation of posters into pro-Warne or anti-Warne 'camps'.

I fully recognise Warne will be back next year - the heavy handed approach would be to demand his removal which I haven't said at any stage this season nor would I do now. I just want him to be better. Glad you've mentioned top two as the aim for next season - I would agree there.

My specific point in my reply to you was in relation to the season as a whole not about today - a one-off like today can be considered unfortunate (and I'm not calling Warne out for today's result in singularity) but this result feeds into a noticeable pattern based on a siezable sample. I don't want to finish 7th again next year & hence this needs to improve.

Do you really take any notice of what the manager and the players say in the media? Why do they have media training? They can’t say what they truly think and their answers are carefully manicured like Beyoncé’s nails.

If Warne genuinely thought this season was a failure, he would be honorable and resign. He is saying it is a failure because he thinks that kind of accountability is what fans of a big club like ours, the big fish in a small pond, want to hear.

I prefer to make up my own mind and from my perspective, it’s not a failure nor a success, but a learning curve. 

Have we at any point this season looked like one of the top three teams in this division? If not, how have we failed?

Also, this idea that we are poor v top sides seems misguided to me. How many top sides have played us off the park and left us well beaten? Arguably two - Ipswich at PP and Barnsley at Oakwell, and even the outcome of those could be debated.

Pretty much all other games have been tight, back and forth, well-contested and decided by fine margins. The only noticeable patterns I have observed is poor refereeing, missed chances at key times, and costly defensive mistakes going against us.

We can only control two of those and I am sure Warne will be looking to add more goalscorers to the team and to tighten up the defence.

We all want to improve, we all want to see better times and progression, but I stand by what I said. You are usually very fair and even handed. There has been little evidence of that lately.

1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said:

There's no 'might' about it - it is a failure. Warne quite rightly admits as much in his post-match interview (link below - about 4 mins in & end of interview also) & had been making similar comments in the past few weeks.

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2023/05/sheffield-wednesday-a-reaction-paul-warne

Rosenior's last game in charge left us in 7th place, outside the playoffs on goal difference. When Warne was appointed to much fanfare from the club referencing his promotion record, no-one would have regarded finishing in the same position as success.

Your point about fine margins appears to absolve Warne of any responsibility for this late season collapse. His job is to get results, he has not done so & the timing very much correlates with playing better teams. We haven't been good enough over his stint in charge & he in particular has not been good enough. This season has been a missed opportunity.

I feel like you have let yourself down here. We’ve missed out on the play-offs by a point, not ten. Calling it a failure is sensationalism.

You’ve long been considered one of the most respected and most measured posters on the forum, but in recent months it seems you have abandoned that sense of balance and perspective previously held.

You’ve been on a singular mission to discredit the manager, diminish any good he has done and superimpose the bad, and to what end?

Warne will be back next season and as a club hopefully we’ll have learnt lessons and be wiser and stronger after this experience. The time to be heavy handed is this time next year if Warne hasn’t moved us forward. 

Top two should be the aim.

I think two words define this season: fine margins. Since February, we’ve fallen on the wrong side of them every time. 

The players gave everything today and the performance was a creditable one. The game hinged on one mistake and sometimes in football that’s all it takes.

Some might deem this season a failure and the anti-Warne sentiment will no doubt be in overdrive over the coming days and weeks, but it’s needless.

Personally I don’t think at any point we’ve looked like one of the three best teams in the division, so I don’t think there should be much of a hangover if any at all. The signs have been there that it is simply one season too soon.

We just have to lick our wounds, regroup quickly, have a positive rebuild over the summer and go out and finish in the top two in 23-24.

Not going into the Championship with this group of players and under financial restrictions could turn out to be a blessing in disguise.

I said this a few weeks ago and the sentiment remains - this is where Warne’s work really starts.

An absolute class act.

I hope he doesn’t get the Keogh or Roos treatment.

Some players just pass through, but he has really taken the club to heart. Let’s not forget how thrilled we were to see him sign a new contract last summer. He has built up that kind of connection with the club.

This season probably hasn’t gone as he would have expected, and today’s minute of madness probably underlined that.

But that doesn’t diminish years of great service. I hope he stays in the fold in some capacity. If not, he goes with nothing but complete respect and well wishes.

Sheff Wed 2-2 Derby

Hourihane FRGS

Derby 3-2 Portsmouth

McGoldrick