Jourdan

Well deserved for Crewe.

Their game plan has worked to perfection.

It looks a long way back for us as you can barely see us scoring one, never mind two or three.

Crewe are defending in numbers and that’s all they need to do really.

Crewe away is the big test.

11 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

So now I can't understand why Clowes didn't give the job to Rosenior. He's willing to let us be abysmal under Warne under the belief he'll give us stability, and eventually promote us. A man who I don't think gives a monkey's for this club - he said he didn't care for our history. 

Rosenior who stuck with us through awful times, who had us playing some great football and some dull (not awful, just dull) stuff too. Why didn't Mr Clowes appreciate what he'd already committed to the Club and give him a chance?

Maybe Rosenior had already planned his next move, much like Rooney?

I don’t think you can blame Clowes for the Rosenior situation.

Was it guaranteed that Rosenior would succeed? Was it guaranteed that Rosenior would sign a deal to stay? Would we have been able to invest in the squad in the same way Hull have been able to? 

Warne might not succeed here but it’s a separate issue. It doesn’t automatically make moving on from Rosenior a mistake.

Derby 2-1 Northampton

Collins FRGS

5 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

I'm really sorry to have to tell you this but @Jourdan has seen the light. He knows enough awful football is enough.

I do think the writing is on the wall for Warne, yes. Results and performances cannot continue as they are. One more adverse result could be the tipping point.

But ultimately if Clowes decides to back Warne, we have to support him too and hope that he can turn things around.

I don’t think I am negative about Warne but more realistic about where he stands. I won’t be jumping for joy if he leaves. However I do accept that if results don’t improve, we’ll be left with no choice but to explore different options and Warne could have no complaints.

3 hours ago, CongletonRam said:

I started a thread on this recently called, 'How good is our squad', for which I got berated by many on here.

Our squad is average, very average with a mix of journeymen professionals even at this level.

Granted, it's good enough for a play-off challenge, but it is not even close to being good enough for a top 2 challenge.

Nothing I have seen has changed my mind.

People speak about this squad in such glowing terms.

The best in the league? Anything but top two is a failure? I can’t understand why.

If you have a number of players playing at a level below their actual level, this tends to shine through and become very telling very quickly. See Leicester in the Championship currently.

In our 15 months in League 1, the only player to really genuinely evidence that on a consistent basis has been McGoldrick. The rest of the players have performed like a top half League 1 team and with the exception of 15 games last winter, they have not looked out of place at this level whatsoever and that should be a massive concern.  

This is not a top two team masquerading as a top ten team, and one that will greatly surge up the table if things change.

I have to echo the comments of @BramcoteRam84.

To win back the fanbase, Warne needs a sustained run of positive results and performances to return the feel good factor. I am not sure the fanbase will tolerate many more showings like we saw on Saturday. It’s reached Hail Mary territory.

However it’s hard to know where he stands with Clowes as we don’t know their relationship and what expectations have been laid out. It might be the case that Clowes anticipated some bumps in the road. Given the cost of a managerial change can be thousands if not millions, maybe he will let things play out longer to ‘protect his investment’. We know if it was Mel, he would have been sacked weeks ago. 

What I am struggling with is who comes next. It’s not an easy job to walk into. It’s a squad with signings from two different managers, a squad plagued by inconsistency and weighed down by expectation, a squad with very few players secured on long term contracts, and a club that is still in recovery from administration and without the financial flexibility of years gone by.

The idea of a young, up-and-coming, progressive manager with the right principles seems to appeal to many. However I do think people underestimate the level of backing needed for such an appointment to work and whether our patience would really last if there were mixed results.

People want to point to the good jobs being done by Kieran McKenna at Ipswich and Rosenior at Hull as to why a good coach with the right principles is the way forward, yet both of them have needed significant investment in the playing side to accelerate matters.

Yes, we might be able to get a better coach in than Warne but good coaches also need good players. I just don’t know that our squad is really as good as people imagine and whether our financial position will allow us to bring in the players needed to make the favoured style work.

1 minute ago, DCFC Kicks said:

I'm not sure how last seasons position dictates what success would be this season. It just means Warne has failed two seasons in a row.

Why are you listing Bolton, Barnsley and Peterborough like they're amazing teams that it's natural we'd finish behind? We were the odds on favourites for promotion at the start of the season. 

If you think the players aren't good enough that's your opinion, which I disagree with. But if they're not good enough, isn't that partly Warnes fault as well?

I think these players are good enough to finish in the top six, but I don’t think we have strengthened enough to finish in the top two. Results and consistency levels so far tend to reflect that.

I will readily admit Warne is also at fault. We should be comfortably in the top six, not having to win games in hand to sneak in there.

Things have to improve, whoever is in charge. But top two was always a tough ask because there are other competitive sides in the division who also spent the summer trying to improve.

Just now, Chris_Martin said:

errrrr..........the players we have.

Which players make us the best squad in the division?

Who would get into each and every one of the teams above us?

2 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

Just aiming for the top 6 isn't good enough and was never the target anyway. I remember warne even saying in pre season the target is automatic promotion. 

We have probably the best squad in the division. Why would that be a problem for a potential new manager?

The best squad in the division? What is this based on?

3 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

The fact is we should be challenging for the top 2, and in that regard it looks like the position is unrecoverable. Finishing top 6 shouldn't be the goal, anything below second is a failure. 

I would understand you if we had finished 3rd or 4th last season, but we finished 7th. So top 6 is a step forward, like it or not.

We finished behind Bolton, Barnsley and Peterborough. Blackpool always looked best placed to compete from the relegated sides. So that’s at least three strong teams we need to outdo. Then you always have teams that surprise and emerge from the pack - this year the two being Portsmouth and Oxford.

Saying anything but 2nd is a failure would be fair if we had a group of players overwhelmingly better than the rest but I don’t see that personally and results tend to back that up unfortunately.

19 minutes ago, Justa said:

That’s a sudden turn around ?

You have to appreciate when the writing is on the wall.

I think everyone - no matter which camp you are in - needed to see a response today and we were all willing Warne and the team to succeed.

We needed some kind of reaction, even rallying back to draw 2-2 would have been a positive sign, but it didn’t materialise.

We had an indefensibly poor start to the season with many undercooked performances, but I am sure I wasn’t alone in thinking we’d recover.

Yet now at a time when we should start seeing green shoots, we’ve taken 1 point from 9 in away games v Cheltenham, Shrewsbury and Stevenage and undone all of the good work of winning away v Blackpool, Burton and Peterborough.

We’re 10th and five points from the play offs. It’s not an impossible position to recover with 32 games to go, but you can sense when a manager has something left to give. Sadly I don’t think Warne has.

Unfortunately I think Warne’s time is up now.

I don’t think it’s an impossible position to recover. We have plenty of time to find form, claw back points and find ourselves in the top six. We could win both games in hand and be in 6th, for example.

The problem for Warne is the goodwill has gone and it’s the hardest to get back once it’s slipped away and results like today only cement the ill feelings.

The scenes post match v Shrewsbury either tend to be the beginning of the end or to stir up a reaction. To deliver that today against a newly promoted side from League 2, irrespective of form and the momentum they are riding, is surely the nail in the coffin.

I think he has tried his best in challenging circumstances but clearly something is not right and Clowes has to act. We just haven’t clicked.

The trouble is that the new man can’t bring in any players until January, so there’s the danger that things might get worse before they get better.

14 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Stevenage 1-2 Derby

Washington FRGS

Edited

Stevenage 1-2 Derby

Waghorn FRGS

26 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Shaun Barker must have used the word quality a dozen times which did resonate with me as our crossing was pretty poor our composure in front of goal pretty much non existent.

Collins decision not to pass well that was on a different level altogether 

Give it a week or two under Eustace and Collins sees that pass and many others and suddenly 1-0 or 2-0 becomes 5-0 or 6-0.

Get on board, Tyler.

Good farewell win for Warne.

He has laid the foundations. He can walk away with his head held high and leaving us in a position of strength.

John Eustace can come in and take us to another level.

I see it now.

On 22/10/2023 at 22:22, Jourdan said:

Derby 3-0 Exeter

Waghorn FRGS

Edited

6 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

you keep saying that, but what actual evidence do you have? go on, just a tiny shred...

What actual evidence do you have that it won’t get better? Neither of us can dip into the future and see.

When you look at how we started the season, we lost two of our first three league games. Since then, we have won four and lost two in nine. We’re recovering, albeit slowly.

Saturday was our first loss in any competition since the beginning of September. The way some are carrying on, you would think we’d lost 10 in 12.

Our current form simply suggests that we’re recovering from a poor start, but that recovery is not yet complete for several reasons - injuries, inconsistencies amongst players, some poor decisions by the manager, a lack of cohesion, a lack of luck in some cases. Obviously we haven’t clicked as quickly as many would have liked, surely including Warne himself.

We can all see performances haven’t been good enough in the main, but it’s a long season and you don’t have to be the finished article in October, November or even January. I would be worried if we were in this position in April and time was running out.

As it is, we have 34 games to play and there is so much life left in the season. There’s no need for so much catastrophic thinking, especially when a team can click very suddenly and often in spite of any evidence pointing to it, and then they look a completely different prospect playing with confidence and belief and riding momentum.

Derby 3-0 Exeter

Collins FRGS

1 hour ago, Millenniumram said:

We found him ladies and gentlemen. The one remaining pro Warne Derby fan.

Does this mean you are David Clowes himself?

Warne will come good. Wait and see.

The scenes in May next year will be glorious. Warne leads us to promotion and Waghorn and the lads are on the Wembley turf in front of the Sky cameras belting out ‘Paul Warne, your football is s***’.

I’m looking forward to it more than my honeymoon in Antigua.

Personally I’m still in the pro-Warne camp.

We will win 3-0 on Tuesday and the fans will be singing Warne’s name for the right reasons again.

7 hours ago, nottingram said:

The key is to find these forwards before they become £1m players. It’s not easy obviously but that is what people are paid good money to do. I don’t think the question is how much would Colby Bishop, Devante Cole or Dion Charles cost now, but rather how much did Bishop and Charles cost Accrington, and Cole cost Barnsley.

It’s not an exact science, I’m sure Accrington have had some duds alongside those two but if they can find these hidden gems, so can we. Incidentally Bishop was at Derby til he was 15 and released. Probably the best all round 9 at this level now. 

If the manager or recruitment team are simply looking at last seasons top scorer list to inform their targets then we will never ever get good value for money again. We have to be smarter.

I don’t disagree, but you also have to weigh up time and expectation.

Warne has been here for 12 months. Mark Thomas has been here for less than 6 months. It will take time for them to get our recruitment department in order.

We are the biggest club in the division and have the expectations to match and perhaps also a difficult bargaining position.

If we are going to see ‘smarter’ signings, surely this will also take time and perhaps too require an adjustment in expectations.

If we are going to unearth players, there has to be an appreciation of what that entails.

Our fans are used to having players who are proven and can hit the ground running. Would the fans have the patience for a different approach, or would they think ‘doing an Accrington’ is settling for life at this level?

10 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

I find these sorts of comments baffling. Warne picks the team. We can all see Collins is a terrible finisher and also that Warne needs to set up differently to make us more threatening. For me, it's absolutely Warne's fault that he's relying on Collins to take chances, without having us playing in a more dangerous way that creates better chances, and for better finishers.

Forwards are expensive to acquire. Who could we have signed realistically that would have come here and we could have afforded given our financial limitations?

Nombe cost £800k - £1 million, for instance. How much would other high performing forwards at this level like Devante Cole or Colby Bishop have cost? Probably similar or more.

We have Waghorn and Collins in the top 10 of scorers in the league at the moment. Take their goals away and we are likely to be 10 points worse off.

I don’t think they are the problem at the moment unless you are expecting them to score a goal a game, which would beg the question of whether that is realistic.

The problem we have is that outside of those two, our goalscoring threat is very minimal in other areas. Washington won’t get the game time. Ward, Barkhuizen, Sibley, Wilson and Mendez Laing are not going to score on the kind of regular basis we need. Hourihane chips in with goals but hinders the side in other ways.

Realistically the best time for us to improve our attack is when we can go out and spend reasonably high fees, so not imminently.