Early Realistic Aspirations for 24/25

[BramcoteRam84]

10 minutes ago, CBX1985 said:

Takeovers and major investment can work against you: see Birmingham.  Well run clubs, like Brentford and Brighton, are the way forward.  You don't need billions, you just need good business sense and stability.

I think we need a survival year (2024/25), followed by a push on year (higher mid table) followed by a promotion chase.  We need to get them ducks in a row, and then kick on.

Yes agree completely. My point on major investment is that “could” change the dial and have us competing quickly but you’re quite right it can work the other way a La Birmingham, also be interesting to see what happens to Hull next season.

Would like to see us mount a top 6 challenge 25/26 but probably too soon so your trajectory is more realistic. A lot will depend on how quickly our very talented youngsters become championship ready. Our relative success 13/14 onwards was built on the likes of Hughes and Hendrick before Mad Mel started spending cash. We’d need to keep Cashin, Thommo improve and see the likes of Robinson Brown and Cruz Allen become top championship players - or we get a couple of quality loans.

Ironically if we were starting the season with the likes of Knight and Bird in our midfield I’d be looking for a top 6 push at least.

Edited May 20 by BramcoteRam84

[Mucker1884]

8 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

Coventry should be our model, not Ipswich. They haven't spent a fortune, have a decent if unsexy manager and came up from league 1. In their first season, they finished 16th then 12th then 5th then 9th with an FA Cup semi-final achieved as well. It is possible to be successful in the championship without spending a ton of money but it requires an ethos, properly planned management and consistency.  For my money anywhere between 12th and 18th is a solid achievement. Any lower than that and depending on the budget then questions should be asked. Anything higher than 12th and it's an extremely good season but I'm not expecting it. 

Are you trying to compare our manager to an "unsexy manager"?  Seriously? 😲

Warney is hotter than a steaming espresso in a Sicilian heatwave!  

#scorchio
#Phwarne
#I would
#Ooh er, missus
#etc

[Jourdan]

10 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

Coventry should be our model, not Ipswich. They haven't spent a fortune, have a decent if unsexy manager and came up from league 1. In their first season, they finished 16th then 12th then 5th then 9th with an FA Cup semi-final achieved as well. It is possible to be successful in the championship without spending a ton of money but it requires an ethos, properly planned management and consistency.

Coventry are a good model in terms of progression timescales and in terms of capitalising on good recruitment.

The question is whether we can realistically do the same. We don’t have a particularly good recent history when it comes to recruitment and selling players for profit, for example.

There is a lot to admire about what Coventry have done in recent years, absolutely. In an ideal world you would say OK, let’s do what Coventry have done.

But it is also fair to say they had to speculate to accumulate to an extent also. Both Gyokeres and Hamer generated incredible profit for the club, but they were still bought for transfer fees clocking in the millions to begin with.

Can we afford to spend £1m+ on a player or two at this time? And if we do, can we unearth a player who could have a similar impact and trajectory to a Gyokeres or a Hamer? Do we have the negotiating power and resolve to turn a £1 million player into a £10 million player, for instance?

Coventry are a good model, yes, but it does also come with its challenges as you need healthy investment allied with good scouting, good recruitment and good business strategy. So much has to marry up.

We might have to just forge our own path.

[Rammy03]

 

[Crewton]

On 20/05/2024 at 20:54, Jourdan said:

Coventry are a good model in terms of progression timescales and in terms of capitalising on good recruitment.

The question is whether we can realistically do the same. We don’t have a particularly good recent history when it comes to recruitment and selling players for profit, for example.

There is a lot to admire about what Coventry have done in recent years, absolutely. In an ideal world you would say OK, let’s do what Coventry have done.

But it is also fair to say they had to speculate to accumulate to an extent also. Both Gyokeres and Hamer generated incredible profit for the club, but they were still bought for transfer fees clocking in the millions to begin with.

Can we afford to spend £1m+ on a player or two at this time? And if we do, can we unearth a player who could have a similar impact and trajectory to a Gyokeres or a Hamer? Do we have the negotiating power and resolve to turn a £1 million player into a £10 million player, for instance?

Coventry are a good model, yes, but it does also come with its challenges as you need healthy investment allied with good scouting, good recruitment and good business strategy. So much has to marry up.

We might have to just forge our own path.

Gyokeres and Hamer were bought from the proceeds of sales. Over the last 10 years Coventry have had a +ve transfer balance, successfully recycling income into new players. That's well worth emulating.

[G STAR RAM]

On 19/05/2024 at 20:12, RoyMac5 said:

Why can't we expect a good run at top 6? We'll have a good budget and will be an 'attractive' and ambitious club, with a 'successful' manager wanting to prove himself.

Why on earth would we settle for bottom half of the Championship? 

Because we spent most of the last season being told how useless and tactically naive our manager is?

[MaltRam]

On 20/05/2024 at 16:51, CBX1985 said:

Takeovers and major investment can work against you: see Birmingham.  Well run clubs, like Brentford and Brighton, are the way forward.  You don't need billions, you just need good business sense and stability.

I think we need a survival year (2024/25), followed by a push on year (higher mid table) followed by a promotion chase.  We need to get them ducks in a row, and then kick on.

I agree generally, but Brighton's debt is eye-watering.

[Tamworthram]

6 minutes ago, MaltRam said:

I agree generally, but Brighton's debt is eye-watering.

Indeed. Their creditors amount to something like £400m and, breaking into the top flight didn’t come cheap. I think the total losses for the three years leading up to their promotion amounted to just over 80m. 

[Foreveram]

59 minutes ago, MaltRam said:

I agree generally, but Brighton's debt is eye-watering.

Brentford owe a mere £62 million to their owner.

[jimtastic56]

On 23/05/2024 at 07:50, Tamworthram said:

Indeed. Their creditors amount to something like £400m and, breaking into the top flight didn’t come cheap. I think the total losses for the three years leading up to their promotion amounted to just over 80m. 

The Glasers borrowed £450 mill to buy Man Utd. They have just got that back for 25% of the club. Brighton are different, Bloom is a big fan like Clowes . He is a £Billionaire and Brighton are paying him back £33 mill a year , and owe him £130 mill . The big difference is that Bloom is a gambler ( He loves his horse racing ) he has played with His money and got Brighton into Europe and the fans are loving the ride.

[Foreveram]

29 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

The Glasers borrowed £450 mill to buy Man Utd. They have just got that back for 25% of the club. Brighton are different, Bloom is a big fan like Clowes . He is a £Billionaire and Brighton are paying him back £33 mill a year , and owe him £130 mill . The big difference is that Bloom is a gambler ( He loves his horse racing ) he has played with His money and got Brighton into Europe and the fans are loving the ride.

Brighton have paid him one payment of £33 million and still owe him £373.3 million.

[superfit]

1 hour ago, jimtastic56 said:

The Glasers borrowed £450 mill to buy Man Utd. They have just got that back for 25% of the club. Brighton are different, Bloom is a big fan like Clowes . He is a £Billionaire and Brighton are paying him back £33 mill a year , and owe him £130 mill . The big difference is that Bloom is a gambler ( He loves his horse racing ) he has played with His money and got Brighton into Europe and the fans are loving the ride.

Your absolutely right about the glaziers leveraged buyout. People thought they were mad at the time paying that kind of money, turns out it was cheap, especially as the loan was guaranteed against Man Utd stock and the interest was paid back by the club each year. 
 

As you say Blooms investment was more of a gamble, he may say it wasn’t, and he’s still owed around 373m as foreveram states. Brighton are still owed around 140m in player sales and the compensation for Potter and that will continue to flow into the clubs accounts over the next few years. 
 

I don’t think Bloom will be losing much sleep over the money owing to him as he owns the club and the value of his stock is double what he’s owed. 
 

 

[Foreveram]

23 minutes ago, superfit said:

Your absolutely right about the glaziers leveraged buyout. People thought they were mad at the time paying that kind of money, turns out it was cheap, especially as the loan was guaranteed against Man Utd stock and the interest was paid back by the club each year. 
 

As you say Blooms investment was more of a gamble, he may say it wasn’t, and he’s still owed around 373m as foreveram states. Brighton are still owed around 140m in player sales and the compensation for Potter and that will continue to flow into the clubs accounts over the next few years. 
 

I don’t think Bloom will be losing much sleep over the money owing to him as he owns the club and the value of his stock is double what he’s owed. 
 

 

That’s the thing though, it’s always a gamble. Brighton and Reading are similar sized clubs, in a sliding doors moment they could change places.

Did they really expect Chelsea would pay £105 million for one of their players.

[Van der MoodHoover]

Very confusing question. Aspirations are to my mind oxymoronic to being realistic.

But, to play the game.... realistically we will have half a new team and possibly a whole new style of play.

So I aspire for them to settle quickly, get a few morale boosting early results and gather a bit of momentum because I also expect a flat to tailing off patch sometime during the season.

[Foreveram]

On 19/05/2024 at 20:12, RoyMac5 said:

Why can't we expect a good run at top 6? We'll have a good budget and will be an 'attractive' and ambitious club, with a 'successful' manager wanting to prove himself.

Why on earth would we settle for bottom half of the Championship? 

This is what the bookmakers think, obviously Leeds or Southampton will be favourites, that puts us between 13th and 18th.

[Ambitious]

The teams are set. It could be argued as the most competitive Championship in recent history as there seems to be a ton of teams within a gnats dick of each other and with almost everyone going through a rebuild, it’s the smartest (not richest) teams who will come out on top. 

As we are almost a completely blank slate, I don’t think we will have much of an idea until a few players come through the door and we fill the gaps. A very good summer of recruitment and who knows, we will see. 

[NottmRAM]

Paul Warne said something along the lines of "you have to aim for promotion or what's the point in turning up". We have to aim for top six but I'd be happy with top 10.

10th place or above would be our best finish in 6 seasons.

[Alty_Ram]

Ah, this one again 😉 Aspiration vs expectation. It makes people go all weird this one. Some folks take it as a personal affront if someone else expects a tough old year. It's not a loyalty test 😊

Some fans (a very small number!) would say our aspirations should be the highest and that we should expect to win the league because we all start on the same points yadda yadda, but personally I took the general intent of the question to be something more along the lines 'Being realistic, what do see as a reasonable, achievable goal". Personally I just don't think it is reasonable to set that bar anywhere near the promotion places because we are a newly promoted team with a very limited budget compared to a clutch of the likely challengers, particularly if folks are going to have a strop if we don't get anywhere near that lofty ambition.

I'd be really happy with solid mid-table but I expect us to be bottom half but hopefully keeping a reasonably comfortable distance from that trapdoor and looking to push on next year and maybe have a shy at playoffs the year after.

The manager has to make positive noises, it's expected. As fans of whichever club we're allowed to say "It's going to be a tough old year. Just hope we stay up", but managers don't really have that luxury and need to put a more positive spin on it.

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, Alty_Ram said:

Ah, this one again 😉 Aspiration vs expectation. It makes people go all weird this one. Some folks take it as a personal affront if someone else expects a tough old year. It's not a loyalty test 😊

Some fans (a very small number!) would say our aspirations should be the highest and that we should expect to win the league because we all start on the same points yadda yadda, but personally I took the general intent of the question to be something more along the lines 'Being realistic, what do see as a reasonable, achievable goal". Personally I just don't think it is reasonable to set that bar anywhere near the promotion places because we are a newly promoted team with a very limited budget compared to a clutch of the likely challengers, particularly if folks are going to have a strop if we don't get anywhere near that lofty ambition.

I'd be really happy with solid mid-table but I expect us to be bottom half but hopefully keeping a reasonably comfortable distance from that trapdoor and looking to push on next year and maybe have a shy at playoffs the year after.

The manager has to make positive noises, it's expected. As fans of whichever club we're allowed to say "It's going to be a tough old year. Just hope we stay up", but managers don't really have that luxury and need to put a more positive spin on it.

Kids are crying now. Thanks! 🙄

[jimtastic56]

4 hours ago, Alty_Ram said:

Ah, this one again 😉 Aspiration vs expectation. It makes people go all weird this one. Some folks take it as a personal affront if someone else expects a tough old year. It's not a loyalty test 😊

Some fans (a very small number!) would say our aspirations should be the highest and that we should expect to win the league because we all start on the same points yadda yadda, but personally I took the general intent of the question to be something more along the lines 'Being realistic, what do see as a reasonable, achievable goal". Personally I just don't think it is reasonable to set that bar anywhere near the promotion places because we are a newly promoted team with a very limited budget compared to a clutch of the likely challengers, particularly if folks are going to have a strop if we don't get anywhere near that lofty ambition.

I'd be really happy with solid mid-table but I expect us to be bottom half but hopefully keeping a reasonably comfortable distance from that trapdoor and looking to push on next year and maybe have a shy at playoffs the year after.

The manager has to make positive noises, it's expected. As fans of whichever club we're allowed to say "It's going to be a tough old year. Just hope we stay up", but managers don't really have that luxury and need to put a more positive spin on it.

Agree with what you say , a realistic summary. Even Leicester had a run of poor results at one point in the season . Expect a meltdown if we do .