Pre season

[YouRams]

I get the feeling Warne will be quietly pleased with last night, makes any conversation with Clowes about needing more signings an easier conversation this morning.

[On the Ram Page]

It good to have this Forum properly back to its “best” after a bit of adversity. Last season a win meant we were automatic promotion material, a defeat meant we were going to get relegated and Warne needs to be sacked. I’ve missed it during the close season!
 

Last night’s result and performance may be just what we need to shake the players from any complacency they may have had ( and the management team too). As usual at this time of year, we are still experimenting with formations and partnerships, all over the pitch. Some may work, some may not - this is the time to find out. We have some good players, it’s about finding the bast way to use their skills and qualities. We all have our favourite players and opinions on others. My initial thoughts on Kenzo is that he has a lot of ability but needs to sharpen up a bit and not dally on the ball too long until he finds his feet in English football. I don’t think he can play along side Thompson, who is always looking for the ball but doesn’t do anything with it constructively.

I also think Wilson sees too much of the ball and at times seems to be our only attacking means. A lot of this comes from Cashin’s long diagonal balls. I wish Blackett-T was given the ball as much/quickly when he plays, as he needs to build confidence and I’m sure there is a greater output than we see at the moment.

I expect a different game on Saturday, and who knows with a win, we could be an “automatic promotion” team again! Early days.

P.S. Gutted for Rooney, he would have been very useful this season. Fingers crossed for a full recovery.

 

[StaffsRam]

We're rarely convincing in pre-season. I'd rather get these performances out of the way now rather than at Blackburn.

Last night highlighted some deficiencies, made it even more obvious where we still need fresh legs, and given the lads another 90 minutes under their belts. 

The major concern, for me, is that it's clear we still need a few key roles filling and these recruits, when we do bring them in, will need a little time to adapt/integrate. I doubt this is the club's fault, but it's very disappointing that having gone up in May, automatically, that we've not been able to fill these roles already.

[MadAmster]

Looked vulnerable down our left 1st half. Naylor made good use of the space with several uncontested runs, two of which led to goals. Our midfield, last season, all too often allowed the opposition MF to run up to 40 or 50 yards without being challenged. That happened again last night. It has to stop.

Cash and a couple of others looked leggy and I put that down to the after effects of a week of 3 sessions a day in 30° plus heat in Spain. They'll all be back to "normal" before Blackburn on the 9th.

2 up top? Not against that as I have always believed that "strikers hunt in pairs". I just don't see NML as one of such a pairing. He needs to stay out wide and use his strengths.

Goudmijn looked as useful as when I've seen him over here. The main lesson he needs to learn, and will IMO learn quickly, is that he'll be given far less time on the ball than he was here in the Netherlands.

I don't think, based on yesterday, that Luthra will get a contract offer.

[Duracell]

57 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

Paul Warne.

Why are we listening to him all of a sudden? Is he ITK?

[Tyler Durden]

54 minutes ago, StaffsRam said:

The major concern, for me, is that it's clear we still need a few key roles filling and these recruits, when we do bring them in, will need a little time to adapt/integrate. I doubt this is the club's fault, but it's very disappointing that having gone up in May, automatically, that we've not been able to fill these roles already.

If it's nobody's fault at the club why do you still find it disappointing?

The way you placed May into your post would suggest you think that's been more than enough time to sort these gaps out- again whom would you attribute these "failings" to

[Saturn5]

Slept on it 

think the fact we were so unorganised and sloppy was the biggest shock as it looked like they had never played together before 

As Warne eluded to there was not great drive or desire throughout the team

Cash had a nightmare 1st 30 minutes Thommo barely touched the ball in the same period and none of the wingbacks looked a threat for long periods as they were pinned back, Grigg made Bradley look well past it 

was hoping to see Brown and Osborn and then find out we have six or seven injured already - seem to be a big issue every Pre-season (are we killing them off in Training ?)

Don't like the formation

Warne seems to be forcing players into positions they are not comfortable in - NML & Jackson playing upfront as a 2 the most obvious and then second half have CBT as a wingback (yes it game them minutes) 

Why buy Wingers like CBT and Jackson when you don't play wingers - odd !

Clearly an issue at Goalkeeper but hopefully the Giant Swedish Helmet will sort that 

Definitely need a GK, LB/LWB and a Striker/Target Man

Could switch to a 4-2-3-1 like he had to last season following the awful start but doubt he will

Positives are the new signings do look like an upgrade, Kenzo obviously stood out, Jackson has pace, Ozoh looks a beast and Yates could do a job with a decent partner.

Thankfully it's pre-season and we can grab a bit of pride back in the Carabao cup - See you all at Shrewsbury for a massively improved performance 🤞

 

[StaffsRam]

1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said:

If it's nobody's fault at the club why do you still find it disappointing?

The way you placed May into your post would suggest you think that's been more than enough time to sort these gaps out- again whom would you attribute these "failings" to

The situation is disappointing. Warne explained at the end of May (I think it was) that the transfer market operates differently now than say a few years ago. Players, and clubs, wait for moves rather than necessarily trying to get their dealings done early as in the past. It's disappointing to discover that this is indeed seemingly correct. Hence, the situation is disappointing, however I don't blame the club for that, rather the turn that the market has taken with these things. 

It's a trend that I don't particularly find beneficial to clubs or players - players need time to integrate when they move, and clubs need to plan their tactics/systems etc on foundations of sand given that they could end up losing players much later in the window. 

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, StaffsRam said:

The situation is disappointing. Warne explained at the end of May (I think it was) that the transfer market operates differently now than say a few years ago. Players, and clubs, wait for moves rather than necessarily trying to get their dealings done early as in the past. It's disappointing to discover that this is indeed seemingly correct. Hence, the situation is disappointing, however I don't blame the club for that, rather the turn that the market has taken with these things. 

It's a trend that I don't particularly find beneficial to clubs or players - players need time to integrate when they move, and clubs need to plan their tactics/systems etc on foundations of sand given that they could end up losing players much later in the window. 

I'm quietly pleased about the steady progress we've made over the summer regards our transfer dealings, I would be more concerned if we were seen to be trying to follow a scattergun approach and just shovel bodies in through the door. 

Of course as your rightly say this does leave us at a large disadvantage over clubs in the Championship whom have assembled the core of their squads over the past few seasons.

I'm still optimistic that by the time the transfer window shuts we will have completed the majority of our targeted recruitment, another reason why the pre season results at this point are pretty much meaningless.

[Inverurie Ram]

Same old worriers worrying about a friendly game of football. The same worriers were probably worrying about only beating Chesterfield 1-0 last year at this stage, the fact we lost 4-0 well I’m not sure how many of you are coping getting through the day.

Lots of new players, more coming, trying out different things, nothing worth getting your knickers in a twist about.

More importantly we are all nearer to death by the second, whilst the clock is constantly ticking, why not try enjoying Derby County Football Club while you can. 
 

D.C.F.C Life, Love & Unity. 🐏 ⚽️
 

Smile, enjoy the sun, enjoy the Rams!

Relax, the clock is ticking !!!!

 

[ram59]

44 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

If it's nobody's fault at the club why do you still find it disappointing?

The way you placed May into your post would suggest you think that's been more than enough time to sort these gaps out- again whom would you attribute these "failings" to

It is disappointing and it doesn't have to be anybody's fault at the club, because that's the way the transfer window operates. Ideally, all transfers should be completed in time for pre season, in practice some transfers are completed by this time when clubs, agents and players come to mutual agreements. But in a majority of transfers, clubs, agents and players are all trying to get that little bit extra and it becomes a case of 'who blinks first' as you get closer to the end of the window.

I suspect that despite the transfer window being open for about 80 days, there will be the usual mad scramble of transfers during the final hours, with some missing the deadline by a few minutes. 

It's crazy and disappointing, but it's hard point the finger of blame in any one direction.

[May Contain Nuts]

"Trying out different things"

...except we didn't, really.

It was like an amalgamation of all the things that didn't work or were a bit lacking last season put on display for Chesterfield to take advantage of.

We didn't learn anything new about our existing players and the new players looked pretty much as foretold by fans of their previous clubs. For instance we already know Jackson really isn't a central striker and will miss his share of chances so it's not really 'unlucky' that we weren't 2 up early on when the chances fell to him.

There was the same emphasis and over reliance on hitting the wings, we've bought in Kenzo who's a technically capable player who could link up with his fellow midfielders but I think we only tried to produce one chance by passing it through the middle all game. (it was a nice move)

There was the same 'upside down' midfield with the creative player sitting deeper than the 'destroyer'... I say sitting but that's not actually true because again just like last season nobody ever really sits because all of our midfielders are expected to play box to box, leaving the defence exposed.

It's not a disaster, It's nothing that can't be fixed and we saw last season that once we've completed our.business and everyone is settled some of the issues go away by themselves (or at the very least it appeared that way against League One opposition) but I just didn't see any signs we were particularly looking to evolve or alter any aspects of our play ready for the Championship.

Edited July 25 by May Contain Nuts

[Mr Ramtastic]

43 minutes ago, Inverurie Ram said:

Same old worriers worrying about a friendly game of football. The same worriers were probably worrying about only beating Chesterfield 1-0 last year at this stage, the fact we lost 4-0 well I’m not sure how many of you are coping getting through the day.

Lots of new players, more coming, trying out different things, nothing worth getting your knickers in a twist about.

More importantly we are all nearer to death by the second, whilst the clock is constantly ticking, why not try enjoying Derby County Football Club while you can. 
 

D.C.F.C Life, Love & Unity. 🐏 ⚽️
 

Smile, enjoy the sun, enjoy the Rams!

Relax, the clock is ticking !!!!

 

Yeah it was lucky for Chesterfield it wasn’t pre season for them and they weren’t trying to bed in new players and try things out. Also it couldn’t  have helped that there new main striker was out injured that must be why they struggled to score 

[Chester40]

6 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

"Trying out different things"

...except we didn't, really.

It was like an amalgamation of all the things that didn't work or were a bit lacking last season put on display for Chesterfield to take advantage of.

We didn't learn anything new about our existing players and the new players looked pretty much as foretold by fans of their previous clubs. For instance we already know Jackson really isn't a central striker and will miss his share of chances so it's not really 'unlucky' that we weren't 2 up early on when the chances fell to him.

There was the same emphasis and over reliance on hitting the wings, we've bought in Kenzo who's a technically capable player who could link up with his fellow midfielders but I think we only tried to produce one chance by passing it through the middle all game. (it was a nice move)

There was the same 'upside down' midfield with the creative player sitting deeper than the 'destroyer'... I say sitting but that's not actually true because again just like last season nobody ever really sits because all of our midfielders are expected to play box to box, leaving the defence exposed.

It's not a disaster, It's nothing that can't be fixed and we saw last season that once we've completed our.business and everyone is settled some of the issues go away by themselves (or at the very least it appeared that way against League One opposition) but I just didn't see any signs we were particularly looking to evolve or alter any aspects of our play ready for the Championship.

Think that's all pretty fair personally. 

Felt more of a let's 'mix it up', give them a bit of a run out. Couldn't really see much that's been learnt.

Early days. 

Recruitment has been good, hopefully Warne settles on the right pegs in the right holes earlier than last season.

[eddy779h34]

2 hours ago, YouRams said:

I get the feeling Warne will be quietly pleased with last night, makes any conversation with Clowes about needing more signings an easier conversation this morning.

The most worrying thing about last night was the shape of the team. Pre season or not. The back three were all over the place. Adams should of been holding midfield and Kenzo should be further forward. Thompson sadly doesn't make anything happen 

When Jackson went wide we had nobody threatening the goal 

All things to work on, but choose who we play a solid shape is a must 

Chesterfield looked solid are they better than us ...no, but sent out with a game plan 

some though are clearly not Championship standard 

a big improvement next game is needed 

[Gabby'sThighs]

I'm not fussed by the result or the performance. The squad did a double session before the game so it was definitely a fitness test. Some of them looked heavy-legged. I sort of wish I hadn't bothered paying £5 to watch it but, hey ho.
Someone wiser than me pointed out that the starting line-up was a fall-back test more than anything. Matt Hamshaw said as much in his pre-match interview.
I felt for Luthra - that was a shocker for the free kick. Hopefully he'll learn from that and get sharper playing in the U21s.

Highlights were Elder looking fit at LWB, I thought Kenzo was good on the ball throughout, some nice twists, turns, and swerves. He was snappy when pressing too. His passing was a bit wayward though. Nyambe was quite solid. Jackson got into very good positions a few times but couldn't finish.

Regarding season expectations, Plymouth stayed up last season with 51 points (13 wins, 12 draws). Stoke & QPR were more comfortable in 17th/18th on 56 points (15 wins, 11 draws). That's pretty much what we should see as an achievement for this season. Twenty defeats - I'm not sure how well that's going to go down on here!

[IlsonDerby]

Think it’s more and more evident that we’ve been building a squad for 343 or 433 (a formation that requires 2 wider forwards ie NML CBT Jackson etc) but the 2 up front seems to me to be him trying to find something that works if he can’t get in the big target man he wants. 
It looked poor tonight with NML and Jackson leading the line. Couldn’t understand 2 upfront with our 2 strikers both warming the bench whilst playing two wider forwards. 

[TuffLuff]

I see a lot of people talking about shape, and it’s fair enough, but I will just say one thing and that’s I think being at the stadium we were so low it was really hard to try and watch the game and get a perspective on how the shape should look, who should be where etc. It may have been easier on RamsTV but to be honest I kinda doubt it.

What I would say is that, a lot of our midfielders and even defenders would make good initial forward runs but poor recovery runs. So if you think of it in two phases, first phase is good, second phase bad. For example, there were a few times Goudmijn would make good passes and movement forward, but we’d lose the ball whilst he’s pressed forward and Adams hasn’t covered the run or Goidmijn positionally has pushed too forward than he needed to. There was a time in the first half where Nyambe burst forward, and we lose the ball which then goes over to the left and pushes Cashin forward leaving Bradley on a one on one as no one has covered or has the legs to run back. 

So yes, it’s shape but i think it comes from running 10 yards further forward than what their legs can currently cope with. It’s the type of thing that makes us look crap now but once we are match sharp I’d expect we’d be able to recover faster than what happened last night 

Oh and one final point, as I keep scatter gunning throughout this thread. If you want one thing to actually be concerned about over shape or things that can be solved with fitness, we are about to enter a league that is a lot more possession based. League One, you can get away with a misplaced pass because you will have the ball back very quickly. In the Champ, you’ve got to keep the ball a lot more and from what I saw last night aside Thompson and Goudmijn, our keeping of possession was absolutely woeful.

Nice cheery one to end on!

 

Edited July 25 by TuffLuff

[Mr Ramtastic]

13 hours ago, Mick Brolly said:

Probably best you find something else to do if your going to get your knickers in a twist over a pre season friendly 

I will continue to go to games like I did last night and if I think it’s justified I will continue get angry when we don’t perform because I care. My expectations for next season are anything above relegation is a bonus but that doesn’t mean I will accept cr@p performances because my expectations are low. If we lose when we have done our best or have been outplayed by patently better sides so be it. If we are not meeting our own minimum standards that needs calling out. 
 

Listen to what Warne said post game last night he called it an embarrassing performance and one that should not be associated with the Club. Are you suggesting he finds something else to do because he is calling it out when “it was only a friendly” ?

[vonwright]

In the long term this is probably a useful result - emphasised the gaps in the squad and need for quality additions in a couple of positions. 

(In terms of squad planning: I know Warne likes three/five at the back but I don't think it suits the central defenders we have at the club. They aren't quick or mobile enough. It doesn't make best use of our wide attacking players either.

Edited July 25 by vonwright