Paul Warne

[ollycutts1982]

Pretty much for all his time here Warne has always been 2/3 bad results away from the fans turning. For me it’s the style of play. Turgid and predictable. We have signed players, Kenzo, Ozoh and Osborn who are progressive and want to break lines but the team isn’t set up to do so. Put Kenzo in the Boro team we played and he would have been 9-10/10. We can’t compete with teams like Boro so we play on the back foot. I don’t like the style and won’t be too sorry when Warne moves on but we are pi$$ing with the pr!ck we have (no pun on Warne intended at all). 

[Barney1991]

3 hours ago, Gaspode said:

Bigger issue was that they didn't seem to understand their own roles.

I couldn't care less that we got knocked out of the cup - but the performance was lacking in so many areas - and most of the issues weren't with the individual players but with the coaching staff and manager who didn't seem to have any sort of game plan - and goodness knows what they spend their time doing in training (fitness drills?).

We can't complete passes with well weighted and accurate balls; there's no obvious plan what to do when we win possession (other than hoof it long and hope one of the quicker players can win the foot race and then create); there's no pressure on the opposition; there's a lack of movement with players frequently standing around waiting for our tedious build up play to catch up with them (if we don't hoof it)....unless Warne is a tactical genius and I'm not seeing it, I don't know what he's asking the team to do - and I don't think they did either....

Liam Thompson case in point proven to be a good option and can play football like under cocu and Rooney/Rosenior now looks like he frequents in hot potato while jogging on treacle. Ozoh looks like a ballerina in a rams shirt yet ripped it up for Crystal Palace. Goudmijm in pre season looked like a good pass and move player but is slowly sinking into the same category as Thompson. 
 

you can’t blame this on just the players but I wonder what we are learning in training as the only time we look comfortable is when sitting behind the ball all game. 
 

 

[Papahet]

One (of many) things what annoy me is that he'd happily throw a relatively unknown in Chirawa straight into the eleven for a game - But won't consider doing this for our own set of youngsters.

What's the crack there? 

[Barney1991]

7 minutes ago, Papahet said:

One (of many) things what annoy me is that he'd happily throw a relatively unknown in Chirawa straight into the eleven for a game - But won't consider doing this for our own set of youngsters.

What's the crack there? 

[Ghost of Clough]

6 minutes ago, Red Ram said:

Brown's not ready for Championship-level yet. Not even close, as anyone who was at the Chesterfield match can attest. He needs a loan somewhere to further develop. 

Then we need to loan him out and not let him sit on the bench for every league game.

His level as a regular starter is L1 right now - but we aren't even willing to start him against L2 opposition. 
Last season: 1 minute against Notts County, 45 vs Wolves U21s, 17 mins vs Blackpool, 13 mins vs Northampton, 1 min vs Leyton Orient
This seasonL 69 mins vs Chesterfield, 29 mins vs Barrow

However, as I constantly try to remind people, there's a difference between being a regular starter and being a squad player. Brown is ready to be a squad player for us. Young players need to be trusted and they learn quickly in the first team. Brown's the sort of player who needs to be played to feel like he belongs at this level - we'll then reap the rewards for putting the faith in him.

Games like those against Barrow are the ones we need to be starting him to ensure he adapts to our team as quickly as possible - just like we should have in cup games vs Crewe, Notts County (more than 1 minute), Bradford and Fleetwood last season. Even in the league games when he was named on the bench, he should have been brought on much sooner. He was a last minute sub bs Leyton Orient despite being 2 up after 47 mins and 3-0 after 79 mins. 4-0 up after 49 mins vs Northampton and he got just 13 minutes.

[duncanjwitham]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Then we need to loan him out and not let him sit on the bench for every league game.

His level as a regular starter is L1 right now - but we aren't even willing to start him against L2 opposition. 
Last season: 1 minute against Notts County, 45 vs Wolves U21s, 17 mins vs Blackpool, 13 mins vs Northampton, 1 min vs Leyton Orient
This seasonL 69 mins vs Chesterfield, 29 mins vs Barrow

However, as I constantly try to remind people, there's a difference between being a regular starter and being a squad player. Brown is ready to be a squad player for us. Young players need to be trusted and they learn quickly in the first team. Brown's the sort of player who needs to be played to feel like he belongs at this level - we'll then reap the rewards for putting the faith in him.

Games like those against Barrow are the ones we need to be starting him to ensure he adapts to our team as quickly as possible - just like we should have in cup games vs Crewe, Notts County (more than 1 minute), Bradford and Fleetwood last season. Even in the league games when he was named on the bench, he should have been brought on much sooner. He was a last minute sub bs Leyton Orient despite being 2 up after 47 mins and 3-0 after 79 mins. 4-0 up after 49 mins vs Northampton and he got just 13 minutes.

I'm not sure he's going to learn anything playing in this team at the moment.  Experienced forwards in Collins, Yates and Jackson (when played through the middle) are barely getting a touch of the ball, let alone any actual decent service.

[ollycutts1982]

25 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

Exactly, what game has been enjoyable since Carlisle? Matlock maybe if you wish to include it. The rest of pre season was honking and Boro was honking as well minus the final whistle going and us somehow finishing with a win.

‘Honking’???? You are Paul Warne and I claim my £5.

[SSD]

Ultimately this is a survival challenge. The standard of football doesn't concern me at this stage. Neither do the league results. Warne can't have his traditional slow start to the season for too long though. It didn't work for Rotherham, mainly due to injuries at the end plus the big points deficit, it was always too little too late. Ugly wins matter, this is key. But it really is a chore to watch.

I want the more positive controlling football longer term, personally I can't stand the cross it 60 times into the box plan. Not many teams in the league play this way anymore and you need to be far smarter tactically to unlock defences. Warne has got to adapt quickly and build this solid counter attacking team. The "that'll do" squeezing past little teams performances of the last two seasons won't cut it anymore. He has got to show a plan of attack on the break, with the athletic pace that he loves. That will cause sides problems.

Defensively I have got faith in this side, if the midfield don't expose them too often. Offensively, he's got to strengthen as a priority. I love Collo but let's face it, his best Championship days are behind him. Jerry Yates I don't know enough to comment on him. Left with Jackson, who's more an attacking inside forward and Brown who needs another loan move. This isn't enough firepower but the manager knows this.

Style matters. George Burley's first full championship season was a slog at times from memory. But I remember he was given way more backing by supporters because he tried to play with some positive intent. We didn't have a big budget but he got everything out of that squad. We tried to give it a good go on the ball, a season later we made the play offs on bare budget, because we had confidence in our play and it was entertaining. 

If you're going to play crap football then you will not get the same level of patience. If there is no clear vision of what the team is trying to do on the pitch, not everyone will be rowing in the same direction. I hope Warne gives us those green shoots later into the season because more supporters will start turning on him.

[maxjam]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Then we need to loan him out and not let him sit on the bench for every league game.

His level as a regular starter is L1 right now - but we aren't even willing to start him against L2 opposition. 
Last season: 1 minute against Notts County, 45 vs Wolves U21s, 17 mins vs Blackpool, 13 mins vs Northampton, 1 min vs Leyton Orient
This seasonL 69 mins vs Chesterfield, 29 mins vs Barrow

However, as I constantly try to remind people, there's a difference between being a regular starter and being a squad player. Brown is ready to be a squad player for us. Young players need to be trusted and they learn quickly in the first team. Brown's the sort of player who needs to be played to feel like he belongs at this level - we'll then reap the rewards for putting the faith in him.

Games like those against Barrow are the ones we need to be starting him to ensure he adapts to our team as quickly as possible - just like we should have in cup games vs Crewe, Notts County (more than 1 minute), Bradford and Fleetwood last season. Even in the league games when he was named on the bench, he should have been brought on much sooner. He was a last minute sub bs Leyton Orient despite being 2 up after 47 mins and 3-0 after 79 mins. 4-0 up after 49 mins vs Northampton and he got just 13 minutes.

Ah the life of a football manager...

Brown started against Chesterfield, but didn't do an awful lot, then got subbed off.  Some people on here said it would have been better for him to come on as a finisher when the opposition are tiring.

Last night Brown comes on as a sub, doesn't do an awful lot and some people are saying he should have started...

FWIW, I think Brown has potential and am sure that if we could get another striker in he'd be going out on loan.  A season playing and scoring goals in Lg1 would do him the world of good.  Unless we can conjure up a few quid for a decent striker hwoever, he'll be stuck on the bench maybe getting 5 mins here and there - would anyone really trust him with longer in the Championship this season, in which every point is likely to be vital?

[BondJovi]

5 minutes ago, Papahet said:

One (of many) things what annoy me is that he'd happily throw a relatively unknown in Chirawa straight into the eleven for a game - But won't consider doing this for our own set of youngsters.

What's the crack there? 

Been my gripe since PW started. I also think it doesn't make financial sense, especially when money is tight. There is no path for the academy players right now. The league cup is a perfect opportunity. Instead we decide to use it to let Collins do what he does. Both Ozoh and Chirawa got first team experience for their club last season. We didn't offer the same minutes to any of our academy players. 

It isn't forward thinking. We failed to capitalise on the feel good for Weston last season after the Wolves game. I fear we have done the same for Brown this season already after his loan spell. What makes it even worse is PW complaining that we had no threat in behind first half against Barrow and he chooses to start with Collins over Brown. Arghhhhh. 2 seasons running wasting the cup games.

 

[i-Ram]

48 minutes ago, The_Sheriff said:

Really struggling to be on the forum seeing comment after comment which in my opinion is utter garbage.

Warne can never exceed here because the fans are so quickly ready to pounce on him. There's a narrative already set, the story has already been written.

It doesn't help the club in anyway whatsoever. 

Time to get out of town Sheriff?

[May Contain Nuts]

8 minutes ago, Red Ram said:

Brown's not ready for Championship-level yet. Not even close, as anyone who was at the Chesterfield match can attest. He needs a loan somewhere to further develop. 

He's never going to become 'Championship ready' - at least to the degree that Warne will trust him to play any meaningful minutes - just by going out on loan though. 

At best he'll become League One ready.

I'm not saying that loans can't or don't improve players, sometimes significantly, but sometimes even the best loan in a lower division can't always replicate the boost a player like Brown could potentially get from scoring even one or two in the the Championship. 

There has to be a better plan to integrate him into our own team at some point, but with Warne it's almost impossible for a young player to get a proper look in because they always represent too much of a risk for him.

As it is, it's almost as if we'd need to be a top Championship team loaning players out to lower Championship teams before they'd be trusted to play for us on a regular basis.

[brady1993]

11 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Almost 2 years on.

1. The football is still awful

2. Knight, Bird, Sibley gone. He's not onlu failed to integrate a single player from the academy, he also failed to give any of them more than 1.5 90s (135 minutes) on the pitch. How long will Cashin and Thompson stay for? Brown must be scratching his head wondering why other players get chance after chance when playing badly.

3. Increased last season as is standard during a promotion season. We'll see how attendances go as this season progresses - I don't have a good feeling as things stand.

4. The feel good factor picked up at the end of last season, but already seems to be on a fast decline.

This I think is the aspect that concerns me the most and will potentially set us back years. 

We cannot hope to progress meaningfully as a club if we can't find a way to sidestep the reality of being financially outgunned in the championship. Ultimately we need to be able to generate value through players through a combination of developing players, finding bargains and selling at profit. Our academy is the greatest asset we have in that respect as we can meaningful compete for talent at that level but it's good for nothing if we don't develop players, give them enough chances and retain them for long enough. 

Going into league 1 we had the 5 players you mentioned that you could earmark as a young core to start rebuilding a squad around. Because all of them had demonstrated to some level or another capability at playing at the level above and you'd expect them to improve. So when we hit the championship they'd either be key players or sellable for decent money. Yet three of them have left for very little, one of them is far down the pecking order and they've not really been replaced with players at similar levels developmentally internally or not (aside from Kenzo).

Not one single player from the academy has broken through in two years. You can make the argument around the academy disruption but there should be more than zero. Darren Robinson is a reasonable example, he made his first and only appearance in 2021 and is now 19. By now you'd have expected with the right coaching he'd be at point where he'd be at least a squad player. But it goes beyond that. No player has improved where they sit within the squad. Look at Thompson, he was excellent in a significant number of games in the relegation season and you'd have expected him by now at 22 to be first choice. Or with Brown, with no strikers other than Collins on the books and at a glance pretty much looks like he's nearly there you'd think we'd devote more time to seeing if he could push on early doors whilst we looked for a signifcantly better option. Yet we will probably send him out on loan to somewhere and bring in some other 19 year old on loan to middling at best success.

[DavesaRam]

36 minutes ago, Red Ram said:

Brown's not ready for Championship-level yet. Not even close, as anyone who was at the Chesterfield match can attest. He needs a loan somewhere to further develop. 

Yet unlike Collins, he was always in and around the area when the ball was played forwards, had two attempts on goal and an assist. Yes he messed up with the one on one, but Collins last night with that early header - he had enough to to control the ball on his chest which would have given him options on how to beat the keeper. Instead he made a looping header which was easy for the keeper to pick out of the air. How many people could have slated Brown for that, when Collins, towards the end of his career,  should have done sooooo much better. As well as hardly ever being in the area when he was needed. It fell to Jackson, a winger, to play the number 9 role, for goodness sake. I am sorry, we are choking re the striker position, but it is Warne with his hands around the throat, sitting strikers on the bench, and playing one who isn't up to this level, while keeping Brown, who needs minutes, on the bench. Even if we do sign a striker, will we play him, and if we do, will we play him in his best position?

[DavesaRam]

33 minutes ago, Papahet said:

One (of many) things what annoy me is that he'd happily throw a relatively unknown in Chirawa straight into the eleven for a game - But won't consider doing this for our own set of youngsters.

What's the crack there? 

That's perfectly all right, because we played the new guy out of position. If emoji's worked, it would be an "eyes roll" one. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

4 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

Yet unlike Collins, he was always in and around the area when the ball was played forwards, had two attempts on goal and an assist. Yes he messed up with the one on one, but Collins last night with that early header - he had enough to to control the ball on his chest which would have given him options on how to beat the keeper. Instead he made a looping header which was easy for the keeper to pick out of the air. How many people could have slated Brown for that, when Collins, towards the end of his career,  should have done sooooo much better. As well as hardly ever being in the area when he was needed. It fell to Jackson, a winger, to play the number 9 role, for goodness sake. I am sorry, we are choking re the striker position, but it is Warne with his hands around the throat, sitting strikers on the bench, and playing one who isn't up to this level, while keeping Brown, who needs minutes, on the bench. Even if we do sign a striker, will we play him, and if we do, will we play him in his best position?

We'll sign a striker but Warne will prefer Collins.

[Barney1991]

19 minutes ago, SSD said:

Ultimately this is a survival challenge. The standard of football doesn't concern me at this stage. Neither do the league results. Warne can't have his traditional slow start to the season for too long though. It didn't work for Rotherham, mainly due to injuries at the end plus the big points deficit, it was always too little too late. Ugly wins matter, this is key. But it really is a chore to watch.

I want the more positive controlling football longer term, personally I can't stand the cross it 60 times into the box plan. Not many teams in the league play this way anymore and you need to be far smarter tactically to unlock defences. Warne has got to adapt quickly and build this solid counter attacking team. The "that'll do" squeezing past little teams performances of the last two seasons won't cut it anymore. He has got to show a plan of attack on the break, with the athletic pace that he loves. That will cause sides problems.

Defensively I have got faith in this side, if the midfield don't expose them too often. Offensively, he's got to strengthen as a priority. I love Collo but let's face it, his best Championship days are behind him. Jerry Yates I don't know enough to comment on him. Left with Jackson, who's more an attacking inside forward and Brown who needs another loan move. This isn't enough firepower but the manager knows this.

Style matters. George Burley's first full championship season was a slog at times from memory. But I remember he was given way more backing by supporters because he tried to play with some positive intent. We didn't have a big budget but he got everything out of that squad. We tried to give it a good go on the ball, a season later we made the play offs on bare budget, because we had confidence in our play and it was entertaining. 

If you're going to play crap football then you will not get the same level of patience. If there is no clear vision of what the team is trying to do on the pitch, not everyone will be rowing in the same direction. I hope Warne gives us those green shoots later into the season because more supporters will start turning on him.

 

[brady1993]

26 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Then we need to loan him out and not let him sit on the bench for every league game.

His level as a regular starter is L1 right now - but we aren't even willing to start him against L2 opposition. 
Last season: 1 minute against Notts County, 45 vs Wolves U21s, 17 mins vs Blackpool, 13 mins vs Northampton, 1 min vs Leyton Orient
This seasonL 69 mins vs Chesterfield, 29 mins vs Barrow

However, as I constantly try to remind people, there's a difference between being a regular starter and being a squad player. Brown is ready to be a squad player for us. Young players need to be trusted and they learn quickly in the first team. Brown's the sort of player who needs to be played to feel like he belongs at this level - we'll then reap the rewards for putting the faith in him.

Games like those against Barrow are the ones we need to be starting him to ensure he adapts to our team as quickly as possible - just like we should have in cup games vs Crewe, Notts County (more than 1 minute), Bradford and Fleetwood last season. Even in the league games when he was named on the bench, he should have been brought on much sooner. He was a last minute sub bs Leyton Orient despite being 2 up after 47 mins and 3-0 after 79 mins. 4-0 up after 49 mins vs Northampton and he got just 13 minutes.

I think that's the thing that gets missed a lot. There is never a 'good time'. Players are very infrequently obviously ready and you often hamper there development by waiting too long as they more often develop faster to higher levels when they are given significant game time at higher levels of play by managers who are willing to persevere with inconsistency or looking raw. The frustrating thing is we do it with other team's players who very frequently are far far from looking ready. 

[Gerry Daly]

1 hour ago, The_Sheriff said:

Really struggling to be on the forum seeing comment after comment which in my opinion is utter garbage.

Warne can never exceed here because the fans are so quickly ready to pounce on him. There's a narrative already set, the story has already been written.

It doesn't help the club in anyway whatsoever. 

Why are the fans so quickly ready to pounce on him? Why do they have far less patience and trust in him than they might in another manager do you think? Particularly given that he achieved promotion quickly? 

Is it that Derby fans are a particularly impatient, fickle and entitled lot or is it something about Warne and the way he goes about things?  

[Barney1991]

9 minutes ago, Gerry Daly said:

Why are the fans so quickly ready to pounce on him? Why do they have far less patience and trust in him than they might in another manager do you think? Particularly given that he achieved promotion quickly? 

Is it that Derby fans are a particularly impatient, fickle and entitled lot or is it something about Warne and the way he goes about things?  

Last season we were getting out footballer by most teams in league 1 albeit a very poor league 1. You could take it as we were winning so it papered over the cracks. Recruitment was still impacted from the overall rush season before. 
 

we have had a whole summer to prepare business and signed targets approved by warne. Some good footballers in there. Yet the football is even worse than last season and we’ve had a whole pre season to work on it. It’s make you wonder what we have actually worked on besides fitness. Like many have said if you win you can stomach it but when I make long trips to Barrow or other away games there is a sense of you need winning football but also a style of entertainment or at least showing me what we are trying too. These 4 games so far I can identify the style. We don’t sit back and counter as we are so deep we literally can not get out. We don’t move the ball on the deck through the lines. I mean we aren’t even looking to get the ball wide and cross it. Can someone on here actually tell me the style we are looking to play?