Paul Warne

[Allen]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

He's taking the piss, because I made a post about Warne earlier down the thread and then edited it to say can't be bothered. Which I can't because as you point out it's not allowed to have doubts about Warne's ability at Championship level, nor to remember and be concerned by just how abject some of the football was last season.

Other than an elite few, there are supporters of pretty much every team who complain about the style of football their team plays.

And like you I have doubts about Warne’s ability at Championship level, just as I did when he was appointed as manager. But after2 years of PW in charge, I’ve seen enough to think he’s a highly competent man who will steer us to at least a lower/mid table finish and put the platform in place for an eventual promotion challenge.

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, Allen said:

Other than an elite few, there are supporters of pretty much every team who complain about the style of football their team plays.

And like you I have doubts about Warne’s ability at Championship level, just as I did when he was appointed as manager. But after2 years of PW in charge, I’ve seen enough to think he’s a highly competent man who will steer us to at least a lower/mid table finish and put the platform in place for an eventual promotion challenge.

Your prerogative. At Championship level is a whole different matter. His record isn't great but with a different team. I don't see much signs of a platform yet, so the transfer window will give you a clue. 

Opinions can differ. #COYR 

[MackworthRamIsGod]

3 minutes ago, BaianoPOTY98 said:

What I don’t get with this forum is why some people seem to think that others are not allowed different views, is that not what a forum is all about? If we all had the same opinions would it not be totally boring🤷‍♂️

Such is life.  Some people struggle to have a discussion or debate without attacking others unfortunately.

I always imagine they are the type of people you get at work who think they are really important but everyone else secretly thinks are a massive

 

[Norman]

I'm kind of worried about next season, but if PW is saying he didn't have a top 6 budget at Rotherham in League 1, then he must have had the lowest budget in the Championship. So going off those seasons at Rotherham isn't really a good indicator, other than he had them nearly surviving both times.

[Comrade 86]

12 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Such is life.  Some people struggle to have a discussion or debate without attacking others unfortunately.

I always imagine they are the type of people you get at work who think they are really important but everyone else secretly thinks are a massive

 

But calling folk 'massive wan***s'  doesn't apparently mark you out as one yourself? I don't actually see anyone using that terminology on here bar yourself. 

You've not really thought this through, have you?

[Eddie]

5 hours ago, Comrade 86 said:

Just tired of the incessant victim card BS. I don't see it, I really don't. If you feel oppressed then that's for you to deal with. You've been on here more than long enough not to need this explaining. If you can show evidence and it's even half as bad as you imply,  you need to alert the mods, or better still, make use of the ignore function like everyone else. 

I cannot believe that everyone else (except me) has you on 'ignore'. That just seems so unfair.

[Wolfie20]

1 hour ago, BaianoPOTY98 said:

What I don’t get with this forum is why some people seem to think that others are not allowed different views, is that not what a forum is all about? If we all had the same opinions would it not be totally boring🤷‍♂️

Diverse opinions are fine but when views are so entrenched that despite everything nothing will ever change no matter what, isn't it rather pointless trying to have a discussion in those circumstances? 

[McArthur Park]

3 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

But I fear the financial constraints will continue

One man's financial constraints is another man's prudent stewardship 

[Caerphilly Ram]

1 hour ago, BaianoPOTY98 said:

What I don’t get with this forum is why some people seem to think that others are not allowed different views, is that not what a forum is all about? If we all had the same opinions would it not be totally boring🤷‍♂️

People can have opposing views, that’s the point, what is odd is that more and more when people with an opposed view are engaged in dialogue accusations of “bullying”, “piling on”, “disrespect” and the like are being thrown around quite quickly. 
What it seems at the moment is people want to be able to share their view and if it’s contradicted by someone else’s view that can’t possibly be considered or discussed. So essentially we’re getting to the point of each of us just making a statement of our own opinions and views and everyone in response just going “ok, that’s that persons view, better not comment or discuss it further”.

I’ve always considered myself to be mostly respectful of everyone’s right to a view or opinion even if I don’t necessarily share or respect the opinion itself (a subtle difference that I uphold, everyone can have an opinion but if I think that opinion is questionable I don’t automatically have to respect it….just the persons right to voice it). However in the last couple of days when I’ve engaged in what felt perfectly respectful dialogue to me I’ve then been subject to what I felt were disproportionate accusations. I’m essentially at a point where I don’t get the etiquette on here anymore, is it ok to have an opposing view to someone or not? Will I upset or offend someone if I counter their views with my own? Or ask open questions to better understand their view? The way I see it provided there’s no personal attacks or name calling, if you’re going to post an opinion that in all likelihood will raise some debate then you should expect some dialogue in return….isn’t that the idea?

[Ambitious]

3 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I would be surprised if we didn't get new investors, it seems like such a key time for it to happen.

I disagree, the landscape of the Championship has changed and Clowes absolutely has the money to be competitive. If he believes that he has the capacity both financially and directionally to take this club into the Premier League then why would he give up a percentage of his ownership, for another voice in the boardroom and someone potentially impacting his vision for the club - and hopefully his future payout from the success of his decisions? 

I think he would consider investors, but I suspect that he also trusts himself to be able to achieve on his own at the club. 

[Comrade 86]

10 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

People can have opposing views, that’s the point, what is odd is that more and more when people with an opposed view are engaged in dialogue accusations of “bullying”, “piling on”, “disrespect” and the like are being thrown around quite quickly. 

Yep. It's very noticeable. 

17 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

However in the last couple of days when I’ve engaged in what felt perfectly respectful dialogue to me I’ve then been subject to what I felt were disproportionate accusations.

I don't think anyone could fairly accuse you of being anything other than respectful to be honest, sometimes overly IMO, though in your defence, I'm a difficult **** at the best of times and you are absolutely not. There's no valid reason I have seen for you to be concerning yourself unduly. If folk are genuinely upset by your tone, then it's because they choose to be. Even then, there are simple, instant and effective means to address it.  

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

People can have opposing views, that’s the point, what is odd is that more and more when people with an opposed view are engaged in dialogue accusations of “bullying”, “piling on”, “disrespect” and the like are being thrown around quite quickly. 

It's not really odd though, those terms are being thrown about because it's true to those people's experience of posting on here. My own engagement with the forum has very much been affected by it, and I'm certainly not just making it up.

 

(very long post incoming)

Everyone's allowed an opinion just long as they remember that a group of about 10 posters (not including yourself) have decided which opinions are the correct opinions, and that if you have a view that doesn't align with them - or if you offer up any kind of critical thought whatsoever that puts even the slightest doubt on the agreed narrative -  you should expect to be mercilessly ganged up on, ridiculed, accused of trying to ruin the mood for others etc. Every slight criticism (and even stuff which isn't a criticism) will be portrayed as a stick you're beating the manager with.

All 'Kevin' had to do yesterday was point out that Warne didn't take over the squad in a decimated state (fact) and that most teams would be more than happy with the squad we assembled in a few short weeks (fact) and there was a whole page of rebuttal, piss taking and propaganda in response within a few hours.

Aside from a very remote few (including yourself), nobody else will take the time to try to understand where someone's coming from with their post before attacking it, or to consider that they may have some valid points, they'll just try to find the first thing they can jump on and dismiss both the person and their opinion. 

If you're extra lucky you'll get someone publicly praying that you get banned from the forum. Lovely behaviour.

If you don't like it then apparently you should just suck it up, grow a pair, stop being oversensitive etc ("it's your problem"), stick people on ignore and just allow yourself and anyone else willing to put their head above the parapet to be rudely and aggressively dismissed (as was pointed out earlier about one particularly egregious offender), talked to like you're an idiot, and be subject to countless, mostly unprovoked (unless of course you count someone having a different opinion to the echo chamber as provocation), insidious little digs worded carefully enough not to fall foul of the rules of the board. 

Anyone who's spoken up about this has been accused of 'playing the victim card', and had a string of laughing emojis directed toward them while the ranks are closed on the notion that there's any kind of bullying (or whatever else you wish to call it) going on. The response to 'bullying' behaviour (again, call it whatever name you're most comfortable with) being called out has been to treat it exactly as a gang of bullies would. It's almost poetic. 

There will be a demand for evidence, but those demanding it know full well that the aforementioned insidious comments aren't directly quotable and and don't stand on their own as examples one can pick out, or report (as useless as it would be to do so when such comments are actively encouraged and perpetrated by some of those who'd see the report), but form the backbone of the hostile and oppressive atmosphere that some of us feel is very much alive and (sadly) thriving on this forum. 

The effect is either that some feel they can't post at all (which then gets picked up on as a 'victory' for shutting up the naysayers), that they have to be careful of what they say (walking on eggshells) or that they feel goaded into responding negatively - which just invites further ridicule. Let's punish and demean people for reacting though, give those who elicit the reaction a big old round of applause and a pat on the back.

Everything positive that's been achieved under Warne gets weaponised, any potential negatives for next season preemptively dismissed before they can even be voiced (and immediately met with ire the second they are), and it looks like that will be the case for as long as he's in charge because some posters simply can't treat others with any degree of civility.

The pretense that all this is all just a response to abuse aimed at Warne or aimed at posters for supporting Warne, or 'fighting back against those who want this to think we had a s*** season'  has long since worn out any validity it may have once had, and even that was utterly disproportionate to begin with. 

This forum is still fun if you look in the right areas, but for the past 6 months or so its largely felt mean spirited, hateful, and almost controlled by posters who's primary thought process is that 'negative' posters are there to be attacked from a position of strength afforded to them by our results. It's really quite dispiriting.

 

Edited Wednesday at 23:42 by May Contain Nuts

[Caerphilly Ram]

29 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

It's not really odd though, those terms are being thrown about because it's true to those people's experience of posting on here. My own engagement with the forum has very much been affected by it, and I'm certainly not just making it up.

 

(very long post incoming)

Everyone's allowed an opinion just long as they remember that a group of about 10 posters (not including yourself) have decided which opinions are the correct opinions, and that if you have a view that doesn't align with them - or if you offer up any kind of critical thought whatsoever that puts even the slightest doubt on the agreed narrative -  you should expect to be mercilessly ganged up on, ridiculed, accused of trying to ruin the mood for others etc. Every slight criticism (and even stuff which isn't a criticism) will be portrayed as a stick you're beating the manager with.

All 'Kevin' had to do yesterday was point out that Warne didn't take over the squad in a decimated state (fact) and that most teams would be more than happy with the squad we assembled in a few short weeks (fact) and there was a whole page of rebuttal, piss taking and propaganda in response within a few hours.

Aside from a very remote few (including yourself), nobody else will take the time to try to understand where someone's coming from with their post before attacking it, or to consider that they may have some valid points, they'll just try to find the first thing they can jump on and dismiss both the person and their opinion. 

If you're extra lucky you'll get someone publicly praying that you get banned from the forum. Lovely behaviour.

If you don't like it then apparently you should just suck it up, grow a pair, stop being oversensitive etc ("it's your problem"), stick people on ignore and just allow yourself and anyone else willing to put their head above the parapet to be rudely and aggressively dismissed (as was pointed out earlier about one particularly egregious offender), talked to like you're an idiot, and be subject to countless, mostly unprovoked (unless of course you count someone having a different opinion to the echo chamber as provocation), insidious little digs worded carefully enough not to fall foul of the rules of the board. 

Anyone who's spoken up about this has been accused of 'playing the victim card', and had a string of laughing emojis directed toward them while the ranks are closed on the notion that there's any kind of bullying (or whatever else you wish to call it) going on. The response to 'bullying' behaviour (again, call it whatever name you're most comfortable with) being called out has been to treat it exactly as a gang of bullies would. It's almost poetic. 

There will be a demand for evidence, but those demanding it know full well that the aforementioned insidious comments aren't directly quotable and and don't stand on their own as examples one can pick out, or report (as useless as it would be to do so when such comments are actively encouraged and perpetrated by some of those who'd see the report), but form the backbone of the hostile and oppressive atmosphere that some of us feel is very much alive and (sadly) thriving on this forum. 

The effect is either that some feel they can't post at all (which then gets picked up on as a 'victory' for shutting up the naysayers), that they have to be careful of what they say (walking on eggshells) or that they feel goaded into responding negatively - which just invites further ridicule. Let's punish and demean people for reacting though, give those who elicit the reaction a big old round of applause and a pat on the back.

Everything positive that's been achieved under Warne gets weaponised, any potential negatives for next season preemptively dismissed before they can even be voiced (and immediately met with ire the second they are), and it looks like that will be the case for as long as he's in charge because some posters simply can't treat others with any degree of civility.

The pretense that all this is all just a response to abuse aimed at Warne or aimed at posters for supporting Warne, or 'fighting back against those who want this to think we had a s*** season'  has long since worn out any validity it may have once had, and even that was utterly disproportionate to begin with. 

This forum is still fun if you look in the right areas, but for the past 6 months or so its largely felt mean spirited, hateful, and almost controlled by posters who's primary thought process is that 'negative' posters are there to be attacked from a position of strength afforded to them by our results. It's really quite dispiriting.

 

I genuinely think there are posters who (if we take a polarised view of Warne as the benchmark) sit on both sides of that fence who have behaved in the way you describe. It’s not one sided. You say people weaponise his positives, but then plenty of people have “weaponised” the negatives too citing style of play, interview style, choice of headwear, achievements or lack of at previous clubs etc as sticks to beat Warne with. There are valid observations both for and against Warne, and people taking it to the extreme in both senses in my view.
By my own admission I’m more pro Warne and pro patience than some, I’ve said many times how I just look to live in the moment and enjoy it for what it is. But I’ve then myself been victim to the laughing emojis on posts and people quick to argue and dismiss my stance. Where I’ve shared optimism in matchday threads about our chances, or talked up the contributions of certain squad members (Collins would maybe be the main one) posters have scoffed at those sentiments. That’s why I don’t like the generalisation of bullying being thrown around, I don’t want to be lumped into one group or another, I’m an adult accountable for my own views and conduct, and am sensible enough to recognise that at times I’ve maybe taken issue with one or two people’s views to my own detriment (I’ll forever maintain Dobbin was a good player for us and despite his woeful finishing still played a part 😉) and I then need to reflect and address it myself without being labelled by anyone else.

I’m retreading old ground here, essentially it doesn’t matter what I think, people have their views and conduct themselves how they want, as I’ve said in the past I guess it’s up to me or any other individual if they want to participate in the forum or to step away if it’s not a good experience. 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

EDIT - just to add I don’t believe people are “making it up” if that’s their experience, I don’t like the idea that anyone feel bullied as it’s an abhorrent thing. I object to the insinuation that anyone sharing an opposing view is bullying others. And again, highlighting the duality at play here, as someone who is optimistic I find it dispiriting reading our chances, our squad, our potential signings and our manager being talked down or dismissed especially with what I see as lazy generalisations about age profiles and “former Rotherham” players when there’s evidence disproving those claims. The forum sort of feels like a microcosm of modern society at times, people have their views and that’s it. 

Edited Thursday at 00:08 by Caerphilly Ram
Added thoughts

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I genuinely think there are posters who (if we take a polarised view of Warne as the benchmark) sit on both sides of that fence who have behaved in the way you describe. It’s not one sided. You say people weaponise his positives, but then plenty of people have “weaponised” the negatives too citing style of play, interview style, choice of headwear, achievements or lack of at previous clubs etc as sticks to beat Warne with. There are valid observations both for and against Warne, and people taking it to the extreme in both senses in my view.
By my own admission I’m more pro Warne and pro patience than some, I’ve said many times how I just look to live in the moment and enjoy it for what it is. But I’ve then myself been victim to the laughing emojis on posts and people quick to argue and dismiss my stance. Where I’ve shared optimism in matchday threads about our chances, or talked up the contributions of certain squad members (Collins would maybe be the main one) posters have scoffed at those sentiments. That’s why I don’t like the generalisation of bullying being thrown around, I don’t want to be lumped into one group or another, I’m an adult accountable for my own views and conduct, and am sensible enough to recognise that at times I’ve maybe taken issue with one or two people’s views to my own detriment (I’ll forever maintain Dobbin was a good player for us and despite his woeful finishing still played a part 😉) and I then need to reflect and address it myself without being labelled by anyone else.

I’m retreading old ground here, essentially it doesn’t matter what I think, people have their views and conduct themselves how they want, as I’ve said in the past I guess it’s up to me or any other individual if they want to participate in the forum or to step away if it’s not a good experience. 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

EDIT - just to add I don’t believe people are “making it up” if that’s their experience, I don’t like the idea that anyone feel bullied as it’s an abhorrent thing. I object to the insinuation that anyone sharing an opposing view is bullying others. And again, highlighting the duality at play here, as someone who is optimistic I find it dispiriting reading our chances, our squad, our potential signings and our manager being talked down or dismissed especially with what I see as lazy generalisations about age profiles and “former Rotherham” players when there’s evidence disproving those claims. The forum sort of feels like a microcosm of modern society at times, people have their views and that’s it. 

Think we're talking at cross purposes somewhat. Those terms aren't being used, and nobody is feeling victimised,  because people are 'sharing opposing views'. It's the manner in which their view is rounded on and the unprovoked jibes that are casually and continually slipped into posts. It's the way that even the smallest slight against Warne is pounced on as if someone's said some gross, horrible unfathomably awful thing about him, the way people adding context that does anything other than show fealty to him and the scope of last season's achievement are treated as if they've s*** in his mouth and robbed him of any and all credit. Again see the reaction yesterday, nothing offensive was said but the usual crew just had to jump in to defend his honour, but against what, really?

I disagree  that it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. Even if it was at one stage, it isn't now and hasn't been for quite some time. It remains a tiny fraction of posters who've ever said anything that's genuinely offensive about Warne and the number of 'dissenters' is miniscule. I wouldn't even count myself in their number at present.

Negativity around the team, tactics chances etc is definitely dispiriting but that's par for the course in football discussions. The stuff I was talking about in my post doesn't fall into that category. 

I agree re: Dobbin. Has everything really  except for that final ball, and even then his numbers were pretty good for us, considering.

 

Edited Thursday at 01:37 by May Contain Nuts

[BaianoPOTY98]

6 hours ago, Wolfie20 said:

Diverse opinions are fine but when views are so entrenched that despite everything nothing will ever change no matter what, isn't it rather pointless trying to have a discussion in those circumstances? 

Yes I get your point, at times you will have people that are poles apart with their views which becomes very difficult to discuss, especially on a forum where it’s only text, which sometimes can get misconstrued or someone might just be on the wind-up. I just find it annoying when some belittle others just because their opinion differs. 

[BaianoPOTY98]

5 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

People can have opposing views, that’s the point, what is odd is that more and more when people with an opposed view are engaged in dialogue accusations of “bullying”, “piling on”, “disrespect” and the like are being thrown around quite quickly. 
What it seems at the moment is people want to be able to share their view and if it’s contradicted by someone else’s view that can’t possibly be considered or discussed. So essentially we’re getting to the point of each of us just making a statement of our own opinions and views and everyone in response just going “ok, that’s that persons view, better not comment or discuss it further”.

I’ve always considered myself to be mostly respectful of everyone’s right to a view or opinion even if I don’t necessarily share or respect the opinion itself (a subtle difference that I uphold, everyone can have an opinion but if I think that opinion is questionable I don’t automatically have to respect it….just the persons right to voice it). However in the last couple of days when I’ve engaged in what felt perfectly respectful dialogue to me I’ve then been subject to what I felt were disproportionate accusations. I’m essentially at a point where I don’t get the etiquette on here anymore, is it ok to have an opposing view to someone or not? Will I upset or offend someone if I counter their views with my own? Or ask open questions to better understand their view? The way I see it provided there’s no personal attacks or name calling, if you’re going to post an opinion that in all likelihood will raise some debate then you should expect some dialogue in return….isn’t that the idea?

Yes I totally agree with what you say Caerphilly and I do think your one of the easiest going forum members on here, in that you listen to what others say then counteract with your views without dismissing others. For me this is the way it should be 👍 

[Chester40]

3 hours ago, May Contain Nuts said:

Think we're talking at cross purposes somewhat. Those terms aren't being used, and nobody is feeling victimised,  because people are 'sharing opposing views'. It's the manner in which their view is rounded on and the unprovoked jibes that are casually and continually slipped into posts. It's the way that even the smallest slight against Warne is pounced on as if someone's said some gross, horrible unfathomably awful thing about him, the way people adding context that does anything other than show fealty to him and the scope of last season's achievement are treated as if they've s*** in his mouth and robbed him of any and all credit. Again see the reaction yesterday, nothing offensive was said but the usual crew just had to jump in to defend his honour, but against what, really?

I disagree  that it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. Even if it was at one stage, it isn't now and hasn't been for quite some time. It remains a tiny fraction of posters who've ever said anything that's genuinely offensive about Warne and the number of 'dissenters' is miniscule. I wouldn't even count myself in their number at present.

Negativity around the team, tactics chances etc is definitely dispiriting but that's par for the course in football discussions. The stuff I was talking about in my post doesn't fall into that category. 

I agree re: Dobbin. Has everything really  except for that final ball, and even then his numbers were pretty good for us, considering.

 

The previous tone (from the mostly now quiet) 'anti-Warne' posters was much more negative,  much more 'shutting down opposing views' etc etc than anything I am seeing now.

And as I said at the time as it a Derby supporter site, felt more antagonistic on top of that as they were hammering the manager, the players, the football,  even Clowes for a short while.  So I can see why - having achieved promotion - to still be moaning even before the transfer window has opened about a season that hasn't even started yet can get a bit tiring for some people. (Not arguing that's exactly the case in this instance).

Especially knowing certain posters are just waiting for any excuse to come out of the woodwork with the same incessant negative posting - which at times took over every single thread.

One of my bugbears is when reasonably sensible opposition fans get absolutely jumped on for any tiny criticism of us. Yet some our own fans seem to think it's OK to launch into ridiculous OTT tirades about the club and then act all hard done by when someone eventually tries to counter it.

Anyway, think we just need to move the conversation on... left without the focus of games or transfers this navel gazing is what fills the void. 

Personally I think you're a good poster so hopefully everyone has had their say now and can move on.

Edited Thursday at 04:41 by Chester40

[Archied]

Jeez,, are we back on this bullying garbage again , in the Jim smith room I’ve been at odds with many posters to the point where I got accused of posting too much ,simply because I was disagreeing/ replying to many posters at one time as a single voice ( quite a few who have similar views have given up and stopped posting ) , 

I never called that bullying , why ? Because it’s not ,

as with comrade86 I’ve had pathetic dm s , don’t really give a poop because if someone can’t say what they say on open forum ( abusive wise )then I have no respect for them,

everyone one can post away , if many disagree you will get many reply’s , if you constantly post negative stuff about the club , manager and players then eventually people will pull you up on it and point out your modus operandi, makes me chuckle how people who do this to get negative reaction cry bully once they manage to prod enough people into reacting 😂

[kevinhectoring]

6 hours ago, Ambitious said:

If he believes that he has the capacity both financially and directionally to take this club into the Premier League then why would he give up a percentage of his ownership… 

I would be very surprised - and not a little worried -  if DC believes this. Indeed I have the impression from PW’s comments that his main problem in the transfer market is lack of financial firepower 

Most of DC’s family wealth is truly family money and I think he is a responsible custodian of it for future generations. MM made his own fortune and did what he wanted with it. He has many, but DC does not have that luxury 

[kevinhectoring]

10 hours ago, Ram-Alf said:

Mel Morris was a mate of Uncle Harry...you know the gob s**** cockney spiv...who happens to be Lampard's Nephew

They have a confusing family tree that family