Warne Out Out

[Comrade 86]

4 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

That's not to say that it's dead simple, that there aren't still challenges we face, but he's not a rookie manager, getting out of League One is his speciality and he should fully be expected to achieve that with the resources he's been given 

Ignored the rest as it's the same spiel you've rolled out dozens of times and whilst not without merit, I'd struggle to get through it all without feeling sleepy. All I would say is that the season ends in May not January.

[tomsdubs]

1 hour ago, Nuwtfly said:

I feel firmly stuck in the ‘I don’t want Derby to sack Paul Warne but am concerned about how bad the football is’ corner.

The league table does not lie but the performances across this entire season as a whole have been pretty abject. I am very, very concerned that we would not survive in the Championship under Warne. We absolutely won’t playing like this. 

I am convinced we don't survive the Champ under Warne, his tactics are no match for the quality of that division. We'd get passed off the park, but we don't need to speculate the evidence is already there from his Rotherham stint.

[nottingram]

6 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

Completely the opposite IMO.

Warne came in after the majority of the hard work was done, he was handed what was already a top 8 (potentially top 6) squad and has since been allowed to bring in a good number of players, albeit limited on transfer fees, on wages higher than the majority of our competition can pay.

Added to that, his first full season in charge is one in which the quality of the opposition we face is below standard in an already low quality league, owing to 2 of the relegated teams having points deductions with Reading particularly in a mess.

I can't think of any manager in living memory other than perhaps Lampard with an easier brief. (Should have got us promoted with the standard of loan player we had, but he was also up against teams with even greater spending power)

That's not to say that it's dead simple, that there aren't still challenges we face, but he's not a rookie manager, getting out of League One is his speciality and he should fully be expected to achieve that with the resources he's been given 

 

The only mitigation I think he has at this stage is the best number 9’s at this level have cost their clubs fees - Charles, Bishop, Clarke-Harris, May etc. and he does deserve credit for the tune he is getting out of Collins. 

That said not many clubs at this level could sell players for £3m-4m tomorrow if they wanted to which could (presumably) fund the filling of the big gaps in the squad. That’s making an assumption we are allowed to reinvest fees in that manner which I obviously don’t know for sure before anyone asks for Harvard references on that.  

[May Contain Nuts]

10 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

Ignored the rest as it's the same spiel you've rolled out dozens of times and whilst not without merit, I'd struggle to get through it all without feeling sleepy. All I would say is that the season ends in May not January.

Fine if that's the way you want to play it.

I won't waste my breath trying to have a proper discussion with you again.

Not really sure what the personal stuff you're going through at the minute is and I hope it works out well for you, but whatever it is it's made you into a right high horse riding arse on here.

Edited January 28 by May Contain Nuts

[Tyler Durden]

29 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

I bet our wage bill is much higher than theirs is.

It probably will be.

A legacy of whose?

[Comrade 86]

3 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

Fine if that's the way you want to play it.

I won't waste my breath trying to have a proper discussion with you again.

Not really sure what the personal stuff you're going through at the minute is and I hope it works out well for you, but whatever it is it's made you into a right high horse riding arse on here.

[Jourdan]

29 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

Completely the opposite IMO.

Warne came on after the hard work was done, he was handed what was already a top 8 (potentially top 6) squad and has since been allowed to bring in a good number of players, albeit limited on transfer fees, on wages higher than the majority of our competition can pay.

Added to that, his first full season in charge is one in which the quality of the opposition we face is below standard in an already low quality league, owing to 2 of the relegated teams having points deductions with Reading particularly in a mess  

I can't think of any manager in living memory other than perhaps Lampard with an easier brief.

That's not to say that it's dead simple, that there aren't still challenges we face, but he's not a rookie manager, getting out of League One is his speciality and he should fully be expected to achieve that with the resources he's been given.

I don’t understand why you want to constantly downplay the job Warne is doing.

There are plenty of cautionary tales out there to suggest that this league is not as weak as some suggest.

Charlton have spent significantly in both transfer windows and yet they are 18 points and 12 places from the play off places. Wycombe, a perennially awkward top half side, are having to look over their shoulders at the relegation zone being 19th. 

Blackpool are 8th and Wigan are 13th having just come down from the Championship, and Wigan would only be 9th without their points deduction.

There are three out of four promoted sides from League 2 currently in the top 10 showing that there are fewer ‘bankers’ to rely on.

Just because you have the ability to spend money and outspend others in the division, there is still so much to get right.

We are currently 4th and likely to be three points from 2nd once games in hand have been played. It’s not perfect, but it’s far from a disaster or irretrievable.

Edited January 28 by Jourdan

[Tyler Durden]

6 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I don’t understand why you want to constantly downplay the job Warne is doing.

There are plenty of cautionary tales out there to suggest that this league is not as weak as some suggest.

Charlton have spent significantly in both transfer windows and yet they are 18 points and 12 places from the play off places. Wycombe, a perennially awkward top half side, are having to look over their shoulders at the relegation zone being 19th. 

Blackpool are 8th and Wigan are 13th having just come down from the Championship, and Wigan would only be 9th without their points deduction.

There are three out of four promoted sides from League 2 currently in the top 10 showing that there are fewer ‘bankers’ to rely on.

Just because you have the ability to spend money and outspend others in the division, there is still so much to get right.

We are currently 4th and likely to be three points from 2nd once games in hand have been played. It’s not perfect, but it’s far from a disaster or irretrievable.

I thought that was patently obvious.

[May Contain Nuts]

14 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I don’t understand why you want to constantly downplay the job Warne is doing.

There are plenty of cautionary tales out there to suggest that this league is not as weak as some suggest.

Charlton have spent significantly in both transfer windows and yet they are 18 points and 12 places from the play off places. Wycombe, a perennially awkward top half side, are having to look over their shoulders at the relegation zone being 19th. 

Blackpool are 8th and Wigan are 13th having just come down from the Championship, and Wigan would only be 9th without their points deduction.

There are three out of four promoted sides from League 2 currently in the top 10 showing that there are fewer ‘bankers’ to rely on.

Just because you have the ability to spend money and outspend others in the division, there is still so much to get right.

We are currently 4th and likely to be three points from 2nd once games in hand have been played. It’s not perfect, but it’s far from a disaster or irretrievable.

...and I don't understand your desire to embellish the job he's doing while using 'cautionary tales' as a distraction.

The expectation from inside and outside the club is that we're challenging for the top two, but the way you talk it would be acceptable / understandable if we were 12th.

The failure of other teams to do what they're supposed to is not our business. The relegated teams have their own s*** to sort out, we've got a year's preparation / 'progress' on them.

I know the league is weaker this year because I watch our games and see the quality of opposition, I see how poorly we can play and get away with it simply due to having just two or three players who can pull out that little bit of class every now and then, while the opposition broadly fail to capitalise on our mistakes.

 

Who said anything about it being an irretrievable disaster?

Edited January 28 by May Contain Nuts

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

33 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

It probably will be.

A legacy of whose?

Nelson, Wilson, Vickers, Elder, Washington, Waghorn, John-Jules, Ward, Blackett-Taylor, Bradley, Nyambe, Fornah.

12 Warne signings. We cant also simply chalk up the make up of our playing squad (and subsequently the wage bill) to someone else's legacy.

I'm sure Clowes would argue that the above list of signings represents significant backing at this level.

Edited January 28 by JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta

[Jourdan]

4 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

...and I don't understand your desire to embellish the job he's doing while using 'cautionary tales' as a distraction.

The failure of other teams to do what they're supposed to is not our business. The relegated teams have their own s*** to sort out, we've got a year's preparation / 'progress' on them.

I know the league is weaker this year because I watch our games and see the quality of opposition, I see how poorly we can play and get away with it simply due to having just two or three players who can pull out that little bit of class every now and then, while the opposition broadly fail to capitalise on our mistakes.

 

Who said anything about it being an irretrievable disaster?

Who is embellishing things? I’ve never said Warne is doing a perfect job or massively overachieving, just that many fans are overly critical.

To be honest, we are about where I expected us to be. 3rd or 4th and trying to outdo the teams that finished above us.

You are the one that is suggesting he has a simple, painfully easy job to do. All the evidence points to the opposite.

The failure of other teams is absolutely relevant because it highlights if it was such a straightforward league to navigate, other teams that have the ability to compete would not be as far back as they are. 

[SSD]

Yesterday proved to me that I don't think Warne will cut it in the Championship. I am confident he will get us out of this division. Regardless of how terrible the performances have been recently, he is still accumulating points and we can't argue it. I don't think it takes a tactical genius to get this team out of League One. Big budgets matter and DC clearly told Radio Derby we have a competitive budget for promotion. Warne has had money to spend and if he doesn't get promoted then I think he knows where the door is.

The big elephant in the room is I have never seen a fan base so divided over a manager when we're clearly challenging for promotion. This has to ring alarm bells. The South Stand is a big indicator for me how the fan base is feeling and there's not many chant for the manager. It's been very flat in the noisy stand. A feeling of fear challenging in the league above. Ipswich and Plymouth last season showed they could win matches in League One and continued to play well in Championship. 

Call me Captain Doom, if we continue to bundling along winning games, I don't see Derby landing any blows in the Championship.

[Tyler Durden]

8 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Nelson, Wilson, Vickers, Elder, Washington, Waghorn, John-Jules, Ward, Blackett-Taylor, Bradley, Nyambe, Fornah.

12 Warne signings. We cant also simply chalk up the make up of our playing squad (and subsequently the wage bill) to someone else's legacy.

I'm sure Clowes would argue that the above list of signings represents significant backing at this level.

"The idea that Warne is some impoverished coach with no resources and a begging bowl is utter nonsense. Our wage bill (even on our business plan), pulling power as a club (purely on size), facilities etc eclipse the rest of the division with maybe one or two exceptions."

Despite the above we were still outbid for a player by another team in this league.

So obviously all of the advantages you listed counted for nowt.

[Nuwtfly]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

What in the past season and a half gives you re-assurance that Warne will be able to change his game plan? He had three goes with Rotherham, is that what you think we should accept?

After the “vote of confidence” from the club he changed formation and we were clearly keeping the ball on the deck more and looked better going forward. He has shown he can change plan. There was even evidence of that yesterday with the changes he made in the second half.

[Nuwtfly]

59 minutes ago, tomsdubs said:

I am convinced we don't survive the Champ under Warne, his tactics are no match for the quality of that division. We'd get passed off the park, but we don't need to speculate the evidence is already there from his Rotherham stint.

When he left Rotherham for us, weren’t they in the top 6 or something?

It’s definitely something I worry about. If we are playing the football we are now next season we will go straight back down.

Question really is whether we think, with more of an opportunity to change the squad, it will get better?

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

After the “vote of confidence” from the club he changed formation and we were clearly keeping the ball on the deck more and looked better going forward. He has shown he can change plan. There was even evidence of that yesterday with the changes he made in the second half.

Change plan because the Club told him to? He made his traditional 'bring Bradley on' changes - you can predict it but perhaps not to the minute. 😄

Seriously you think that gives confidence going forward, that when needed the management step in a nudge him to be flexible? 😄

Edited January 28 by RoyMac5

[Nuwtfly]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

Change plan because the Club told him to? He made his traditional 'bring Bradley on' changes - you can predict it but perhaps not to the minute. 😄

Seriously you think that gives confidence going forward, that when needed the management step in a nudge him to be flexible? 😄

Confidence going forward?

Roy did you actually even read my original post?

I’m literally saying I’m worried about us going forward.

Honestly think you could get into an argument with your own reflection sometimes 🤷‍♂️

[Carl Sagan]

2 hours ago, Nuwtfly said:

I feel firmly stuck in the ‘I don’t want Derby to sack Paul Warne but am concerned about how bad the football is’ corner.

The league table does not lie but the performances across this entire season as a whole have been pretty abject. I am very, very concerned that we would not survive in the Championship under Warne. We absolutely won’t playing like this. 

I think we're under par in the league table - not by a huge amount because there aren't top sides away over the horizon like last season, but the pre-season poll on here was an expectation of promotion and with over half the season gone we're only 4th. We should be doing better.

[BondJovi]

2 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

"The idea that Warne is some impoverished coach with no resources and a begging bowl is utter nonsense. Our wage bill (even on our business plan), pulling power as a club (purely on size), facilities etc eclipse the rest of the division with maybe one or two exceptions."

Despite the above we were still outbid for a player by another team in this league.

So obviously all of the advantages you listed counted for nowt.

Outbid proves nothing. They might be willing to spend all their budget on one player. Perhaps if the manager trusted more of the squad, we could go bigger on one player. But he wants more bodies in.

It really shouldn't be difficult to convince players to join us in this league though.

Warne is managing in the best conditions since Lampard. Yes, he doesn't have a blank chequebook but he has zero behind the scenes antics, he has the full support of the owner. These are far better conditions than he had at Rotherham and that didn't stop him.

[vonwright]

12 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

"The idea that Warne is some impoverished coach with no resources and a begging bowl is utter nonsense. Our wage bill (even on our business plan), pulling power as a club (purely on size), facilities etc eclipse the rest of the division with maybe one or two exceptions."

Despite the above we were still outbid for a player by another team in this league.

So obviously all of the advantages you listed counted for nowt.

Is your position that unless we successfully outbid every other club in this division for every player we are in for, our financial and other advantages 'count for nowt'?

No matter how much we've already spent elsewhere? Or how much we actually want the player in question?

We clearly have huge advantages over other League One clubs in terms of finances and facilities. We've assembled what must be one of the best-paid squads in the division. It's bizarre anyone would feel the need to deny it.