Mostyn6 Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 as someone mentioned my connection/friendship with both Jaymie and Gareth, here is one of them. Someone will still call him anti-semitic for this though. ramit and GB SPORTS 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG2Ram Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 2 hours ago, PistoldPete said: The media groups in Uk who have biggest influence are BbC and Rupert Murdoch. Neither are Jewish. So “literally all owned by Israel” isn’t a creation/ embellishment/ exaggeration on your part to create rage? Technically Rupert Murdoch is Jewish as the Code of Jewish Law clearly states that a child of a Jewish mother is Jewish, regardless of the father's lineage, while the child of a non-Jewish mother is not Jewish. It's amazing what you learn being married into a family of German Jewish Holocaust survivors. I'm following this thread with a mixture of interest, exasperation (at times), sadness and resignation. I don't think I'll be showing it to Mrs NG2Ram though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 Wish we'd stop the antisemitism debate. Because I don't believe anyone truly believes that it's the underlying issue of the last half century. It's not irrelevant but the vast majority of hate aimed at Israel is aimed at Israel and not Jews. The arguments around Israel/Palestine often end up this way and I bet this thread will be closed if it continues down this route? Not my place to tell people what to say, of course. But it's a bit of sidetrack to the real topic. As @ariotofmyown said, there's probably less animosity towards Jews in the Muslim world than elsewhere? Tamworthram and ariotofmyown 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 14 minutes ago, NG2Ram said: Technically Rupert Murdoch is Jewish as the Code of Jewish Law clearly states that a child of a Jewish mother is Jewish, regardless of the father's lineage, while the child of a non-Jewish mother is not Jewish. It's amazing what you learn being married into a family of German Jewish Holocaust survivors. I'm following this thread with a mixture of interest, exasperation (at times), sadness and resignation. I don't think I'll be showing it to Mrs NG2Ram though. That is to be expected when you feel strongly about something and firm in your conviction that your views are on the right side of the debate to the point where it is almost inconceivable that others would see it differently, or emphasise points you might consider of lesser importance to the overall issue. I feel (or have felt) no different reading various threads, here and elsewhere, on this topic (and others!) but most likely I have a very different take on this issue to yours. I say that with respect, and without in any way disregarding what you have said about your own background and the experiences of Mrs NG2Ram's family. I suppose this is what makes being a football fan, in a sea of other fans, a very odd experience at times: an almost accidental detail brings us all together (except when we're arguing about the manager of course), and most of our concerns in life are the same as each other, but life throws up some rather big issues quite often, and we're challenged to navigate our way through them together despite very different ideas about what's happening, why it's happening and whose fault it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 10 minutes ago, Alpha said: But it's a bit of sidetrack to the real topic. As @ariotofmyown said, there's probably less animosity towards Jews in the Muslim world than elsewhere? I don't know about nowadays, because events since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire have pushed the Jewish-Muslim relationship to centre-stage. But certainly there are accounts that (at least some) Jews considered living under Muslim rule (e.g. Andalusia) some of the best/safest years in their history. I remember reading that, when some Palestinians were forced to leave their homes, there were Jews who went with them out of solidarity. There has probably never been a "civilisation" where 100% of the people have lived in harmony with one another, but when people fixate on the differences between them, things don't tend to be heading in a positive direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said: as someone mentioned my connection/friendship with both Jaymie and Gareth, here is one of them. Someone will still call him anti-semitic for this though. Anti semitic isn’t the first word that occurred to me on reading that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said: as someone mentioned my connection/friendship with both Jaymie and Gareth, here is one of them. Someone will still call him anti-semitic for this though. Yes, yes care about the people, care about peace. I'm looking forward to him practicing what he preaches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said: Yes, yes care about the people, care about peace. I'm looking forward to him practicing what he preaches I know him, he does practice what he preaches. Does a lot that people don't know about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 There are enough whatsapp videos floating around to illustrate what Hamas has done. Denying that because mainstream media are reporting it is just silly. Rather than just looking at the evidence, we now live in a world where sides are drawn based on who said what rather than what was said. It’s sad. Archied, ariotofmyown and AndyinLiverpool 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 35 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: Anti semitic isn’t the first word that occurred to me on reading that. You can see lots when you read that and you can choose to take it all on board , take some , take non , doesn’t matter who wrote it , I wrote earlier in the thread about mothers of Jews and Arabs marching together to call a halt to killing , we saw it in Ireland and it was powerful and hard to resist , maybe that’s stepping off the chessboard 🤷🏻♂️ ramit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 So many of the killed and wounded in Gaza are children. Israeli authorities say they are only going after Hamas, but that is not true, it is indiscriminate bombing of civilians, there can be no justification for such heinous acts, none, that is not defending yourself, that is murder, of kids. Ram-Alf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 24 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: There are enough whatsapp videos floating around to illustrate what Hamas has done. Denying that because mainstream media are reporting it is just silly. Rather than just looking at the evidence, we now live in a world where sides are drawn based on who said what rather than what was said. It’s sad. You are absolutely right (particularly the third sentence) but most of the counter-arguments I have heard concern not the actions of Hamas and whether they can be justified, but rather the underlying context in which they took place and whether the Israeli response is proportionate (and even within the boundaries of international law... whatever that is.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 1 hour ago, ramit said: So many of the killed and wounded in Gaza are children. Israeli authorities say they are only going after Hamas, but that is not true, it is indiscriminate bombing of civilians, there can be no justification for such heinous acts, none, that is not defending yourself, that is murder, of kids. No it really isn’t. They are going after Hamas. Precision bombing is not that precise and that will result in tragic loss of civilian life. But they are not going after civilians it is ridiculous to claim that. Mostyn6, GboroRam, Jubbs and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: Precision bombing is not that precise Probably best to just call it bombing, then? Highgate, GboroRam, Alph and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerbysLane Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 11 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: No it really isn’t. They are going after Hamas. Precision bombing is not that precise and that will result in tragic loss of civilian life. But they are not going after civilians it is ridiculous to claim that. In your opinion, how many children is it acceptable to kill in order to kill one member of Hamas? Alph and ramit 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 8 hours ago, PistoldPete said: No it really isn’t. They are going after Hamas. Precision bombing is not that precise and that will result in tragic loss of civilian life. But they are not going after civilians it is ridiculous to claim that. When the majority of those killed and wounded are civilians it is outrageous to claim that is not on purpose. DerbysLane 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubbs Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 31 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: No it really isn’t. They are going after Hamas. Precision bombing is not that precise and that will result in tragic loss of civilian life. But they are not going after civilians it is ridiculous to claim that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 19 minutes ago, ramit said: When the majority of those killed and wounded are civilians it is outrageous to claim that is not on purpose. You can call it reckless , even potentially a war crime if you prefer, but they do not on purpose kill civilians . Tamworthram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 3 hours ago, Alpha said: I thought this pretty accurate. Not trying to prolong the news debate...but this is what Mostyn6 talks about when some watch the news, It gets logged in their memory, And the next thing is...Hamas the butchers, Israel the avengers. Jeez am I glad I only have another(fingers crossed)20+ years on this planet, How much more sh!t is heading to hell 😡 Alph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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